This poor woman is being demonized for shooting a lion legally

[shortwave]

lt dan,

Very interesting. Thanks again.

I want to repeat myself, I have a distaste for Lion hunting, but I have to make peace with the advantages this has for the lion population on general as well as the people involved with this.

If I ever was fortunate enough to be able to come to Africa to hunt, the lion would definitely not be on my list of quarries either. No interest.
Same with hunting certain popular species here in the states. And the methods in which they are hunted. Again, no interest.

But it is not for me to impose my personal feelings on those that hunt animals that I have no interest in hunting or for me to turn my nose up at the legal methods a person is using to hunt the same.

I know that a lot of the $'s that a person is spending on hunting/fishing whatever animal in this country by whatever legal means necessary is going for the betterment of all conservation.

Again lt dan ,

Thanks for the insight of how it actually works in Africa.

[leadcounsel]

Why are lion numbers decimated? Human hunting. Seems quite straightforward.

How do they repair? Stop hunting.

Any other answer is selfish grredy spin.

[lt dan]

I do have a taste for one thing though......... Buffalo. My Tswana tracker says a cape buff contains the anger of God. Being n local, I get to hunt him ...solo!!!

That is my dream. Lions, not so much.

[lt dan]

Leadcouncel, sorry mate, you are wrong. Numbers of lions are stedily on the rise in RSA. But lets go your route... Who is giong to care for the lions if not the breeders? African governmants?

[shortwave]

I do have a taste for one thing though......... Buffalo. My Tswana tracker says a cape buff contains the anger of God. Being n local, I get to hunt him ...solo!!!

The cape buff would be towards the top of my African hunting 'wish' list as well.

[LOLBELL]

I have just set here and read this whole 8 page thread. While reading it I have noted, in several places, the term evolution , evolved, and 100 million years. When Adam was created 6,600 or so years ago he was put in charge of over seeing all of earth, including the lions. If Adam - man - thinks killing one is for the good of all liondom then so be it.

[Pond, James Pond]

James Pond - Certain male animal species will battle and sometimes kill the leading alpha male in order to take over the group or flock in order to gain mating rights.

And I've said as much, but it is in the interests of both parties if it does not come to that.

Numbers of lions are stedily on the rise in RSA.

That is good news indeed.
I have a further question: are there any plans to address the issue of habitat erosion. Is this something that the hunting revenue helps solve?
Lion numbers are on the rise, but it seems a limited gain if they have nowhere to go.

I also noted the other causes of lion decline: the poaching, corruption.
Does money ever get fed into combat that too?

I agree with your sentiment about lion hunting being distasteful. Thoroughly so, in my case.

When Adam was created 6,600 or so years ago

That is a personal belief, not a proven fact and so is conjecture in terms of this debate. I also believe this may come under rule 5F.

[leadcounsel]

man - thinks killing one is for the good of all liondom then so be it.

And yet, THIS man, and probably a significant percent of people, do NOT think killing them for sport is beneficial.

[eastbank]

some of the best hunting is in tetesy fly country, the locals can,t ruin the country with their over grazing cattle as the fly carries the sleeping sickness.and yes hunting dollars do help to keep land wild for all species,a lot that the hunter does not hunt. its a win,win for the hunter and other species.most of the african countries are run by depots,dictaters or corrupt governments who don,t give a rats as* about its people as long as they and their relitives live high on the hog.in the countries that have bans on certain hunting the number of animals decline. go to africa and see for your self the indifference to human suffering by the governments involved. hunting alone can,t save the animals,the african governments must join with the hunters,hikers and photo,s takers to see that these animals are there for future generations to enjoy. eastbank.

[shortwave]

That is a personal belief, not a proven fact

...been about eight pages of personal beliefs without facts in this thread.

[jimbob86]

Why are lion numbers decimated? Human hunting. Seems quite straightforward.

How do they repair? Stop hunting.

Any other answer is selfish grredy spin.

If you stop hunting lions in the RSA, or whitetail in middle America for that matter, the populations will exceed the carrying capacity of the habitat available, and crash: massive die-offs, mostly due to disease (like the EHD outbreak in my area, which killed an estimated 60% of the whitetailed deer in my county in the space of 2 months last fall).

leadcounsel, I don't think you understand the problem, and are making judgements based on emotion rather than logic.

I hunt animals.

Some I hunt so that I might eat them, like deer and wild turkey, both of which all but completely disappeared from my state when there was no game management/sport hunting. Once hunting was regulated, and then actively supported and promoted by the State Game and Parks Commission, populations exploded: there are now more whitetailed deer and turkeys in Nebraska then ever, including before Columbus ever hit Hispanolia (because of modern, irrigated row crop farming, the land produces hundreds hundreds of times more forage than it did before, and fire suppression means there are trees here that could not exist in the "sea of grass" of 150 years ago- so there is cover- shelter from the wind and snow that did not exist ......

Some animals I hunt for pure sport- because I want to. You may not like that, but here's the deal: tough. It's legal. Don't like it? Seek to change it ...... but take care that unintended consequenseces don't bite the species you are intending to "save": take the case of the Black Tailed Prairie Dog in western Nebraska......

I used to go out and shoot prairie dogs several times every summer at a distant relative's farm ....... (when I was a kid, this was common weekend activity, and kept the populations in check) ...... then one year, the landowner (we'll call him Frank D. Farmer) tells me that due to pressure by animal rights activists in Colorado, the US Fish & Wildlife Service is making noises to him that they are "endangered" and they are going to outlaw so much as harrassing them, let alone controlling their numbers ...... now Frank only had one pasture (and his brother had one, and his niece, and they rotated the cattle between these pastures)and his cows had to share the grass with the prairie dogs in these pastures ..... and had done so for all my life. Faced with the possibility of not being allowed to manage his own pasture, Melvin went out and purchased, through his County Extension Office, IIRC, a large sack of phosgene tablets, and dropped a few down every hole in the 'dog town. Every other landowner in the area did the same. Now there are NO prairie dogs for me to shoot ...... are you happy now?

Everything has a purpose in Nature ...... until large herds of overly emotional and under-informed ...... people ....... who do not understand things come along and start telling people that actually live on the land how they must do things ...... then things get pear shaped in a hurry.

[leadcounsel]

Some of the pro-sport killing arguments are laughable. Like this one:

If you stop hunting lions in the RSA, or whitetail in middle America for that matter, the populations will exceed the carrying capacity of the habitat available, and crash: massive die-offs, mostly due to disease (like the EHD outbreak in my area, which killed an estimated 60% of the whitetailed deer in my county in the space of 2 months last fall).

The lions we are talking about have lost some 90% of their numbers in just 50 years due to HUMANS. They were doing just fine until HUMANS decided to destroy habitats and sport hunt them (and probably a not insignificant number of hunting for food and self defense of villages).

Pro-sport killers here can give their opinions all day, but I am unswayed. I trust open source reporting such as WIKI over opinions on a pro-gun hunting forum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion

Most lions now live in eastern and southern Africa, and their numbers there are rapidly decreasing, with an estimated 30–50% decline per 20 years in the late half of the 20th century.[2] Estimates of the African lion population range between 16,500 and 47,000 living in the wild in 2002–2004,[139][140] down from early 1990s estimates that ranged as high as 100,000 and perhaps 400,000 in 1950. Primary causes of the decline include disease and human interference.[2] Habitat loss and conflicts with humans are considered the most significant threats to the species

[Spats McGee]

While the ethics of hunting in general, and of lion hunting in particular, are certainly worthy topics, this particular thread sure looks like it's beginning its downward slide. Accordingly, I'm going to close it before tempers get too heated.

Cordially,
Spats