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Old April 12, 2018, 07:49 PM   #76
IAhunter
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I've been toting .357 wheel guns for nearly three decades now, and I load .357 ammo for carry. I've owned a model 60 in .357 and I carried it extensively off duty in the late 1990s, but sold it off because I learned that I prefer the K frames for six shot capacity, larger grip size, and better shootability, not to mention the decrease in felt recoil with hot loads. K frames with 2 1/2" barrels don't think they are snubbies, and they shoot like 4" guns.

My 158 XTP grain hand loads chrono 1150 fps out of the 2 1/2" model 66, and the 145 grain silvertips chrono similarly. So, let's hear some more anecdotal rumors and made up info on how ineffective .357 magnum is in short barrels.

Not to disparage the .38 special, since I like those too. My house guns are in that caliber or .40 S&W to save our ears in the event that I have to light one off indoors.
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Old April 12, 2018, 08:21 PM   #77
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On two big Ohio bucks, they went in one side and out the other.
Yeah, I killed 2 deer with the classic behind the front shoulder shot with this bullet, but there's not a lot of resistance there to stop a bullet. However, let me tell you what happened when I had to make a different shot. I was in my tree stand one morning when I heard a shot and a large doe came limping over to me and lay down under my tree. So, I figured I would do the hunter a favor and dispatch his deer for him. I aimed my S&W 686 at it's back angling down into the chest cavity and touched one off. To my amazement, the deer got up and ran off. In the afternoon I was hunting on the ground in the same general area, when a deer came limping near me. I shot it with my 12 gauge. When I got it home and took the hide off, I found a perfectly mushroomed .357 silvertip bullet imbedded in the thick layer of suet on this large does back. The bullet did not hit any bone and was simply stopped by the hide and layer of fat. I lost all confidence in the silvertip bullet and would not recommend it's use for anything serious. I have since moved on to a more serious caliber and bullet.

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Old April 12, 2018, 08:36 PM   #78
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I've gotten awesome penetration from the American Eagle 158 grain JSP on deer. No need for me to step up in caliber.
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Old April 12, 2018, 11:12 PM   #79
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I’m using the Silvertip for a self defense load, where it had a decent rep.
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Old April 13, 2018, 08:02 AM   #80
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One of my favorite You Tube gun guys weighs in on the issue

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27wDLjY5JSs
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Old April 13, 2018, 09:00 AM   #81
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One of my favorite You Tube gun guys weighs in on the issue

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27wDLjY5JSs
Thumbs up for Paul Harrell, very informative no BS videos. I agree on his take, if you can handle the .357 there is definitely an increase over 38+Ps out of short barrel. Granted, it's not as much as the difference in a 4" or longer barrel, but there IS a difference.
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Old April 13, 2018, 11:30 AM   #82
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Thumbs up for Paul Harrell, very informative no BS videos. I agree on his take, if you can handle the .357 there is definitely an increase over 38+Ps out of short barrel. Granted, it's not as much as the difference in a 4" or longer barrel, but there IS a difference.
The thing is, once you reach a certain velocity and have a bullet that both expands and provides good penetration at that velocity, you have to weigh the loss in recovery time for follow-up shots and perhaps less penetration from additional bullet expansion at the higher velocity. Match the bullet to your intended velocity. That's why I use different alloys when I cast bullets for different intended purposes.

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Old April 13, 2018, 11:37 AM   #83
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Yeah, I killed 2 deer with the classic behind the front shoulder shot with this bullet, but there's not a lot of resistance there to stop a bullet. However, let me tell you what happened when I had to make a different shot. I was in my tree stand one morning when I heard a shot and a large doe came limping over to me and lay down under my tree. So, I figured I would do the hunter a favor and dispatch his deer for him. I aimed my S&W 686 at it's back angling down into the chest cavity and touched one off. To my amazement, the deer got up and ran off. In the afternoon I was hunting on the ground in the same general area, when a deer came limping near me. I shot it with my 12 gauge. When I got it home and took the hide off, I found a perfectly mushroomed .357 silvertip bullet imbedded in the thick layer of suet on this large does back. The bullet did not hit any bone and was simply stopped by the hide and layer of fat. I lost all confidence in the silvertip bullet and would not recommend it's use for anything serious. I have since moved on to a more serious caliber and bullet.

Don
Why would you shoot the back strap area purposely on a deer?
Best meat on the whole animal.
The head or neck was not available?
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Old April 13, 2018, 12:03 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by USSR
Yeah, I killed 2 deer with the classic behind the front shoulder shot with this bullet, but there's not a lot of resistance there to stop a bullet. However, let me tell you what happened when I had to make a different shot. I was in my tree stand one morning when I heard a shot and a large doe came limping over to me and lay down under my tree. So, I figured I would do the hunter a favor and dispatch his deer for him. I aimed my S&W 686 at it's back angling down into the chest cavity and touched one off. To my amazement, the deer got up and ran off. In the afternoon I was hunting on the ground in the same general area, when a deer came limping near me. I shot it with my 12 gauge. When I got it home and took the hide off, I found a perfectly mushroomed .357 silvertip bullet imbedded in the thick layer of suet on this large does back. The bullet did not hit any bone and was simply stopped by the hide and layer of fat. I lost all confidence in the silvertip bullet and would not recommend it's use for anything serious. I have since moved on to a more serious caliber and bullet.

Don

Quote:
Why would you shoot the back strap area purposely on a deer?
Best meat on the whole animal.
The head or neck was not available?
Was not shooting at the backstrap. Deer was lying down with one side presented to me. Nevertheless, the issue is the lack of penetration of the Winchester Silvertip bullet, not what shot I elected to take.

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Old April 13, 2018, 01:55 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by USSR View Post
The thing is, once you reach a certain velocity and have a bullet that both expands and provides good penetration at that velocity, you have to weigh the loss in recovery time for follow-up shots and perhaps less penetration from additional bullet expansion at the higher velocity. Match the bullet to your intended velocity. That's why I use different alloys when I cast bullets for different intended purposes.

Don
Yes sir, this is the reason that I myself don't carry full .357 mags. I'm simply not talented enough to be able to place rapid accurate follow up shots on my target.
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Old April 15, 2018, 04:54 PM   #86
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Deer was lying down
OK, OT, but SERIOUSLY?
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Old April 15, 2018, 05:47 PM   #87
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Deer was lying down

Quote:
OK, OT, but SERIOUSLY?
Hmm, must be you've never hunted deer. Deer that are wounded tend to want to lie down first chance they get.

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Old April 15, 2018, 06:50 PM   #88
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And was the deer lying down when you shot him the 2nd time with the 12Ga?
Sounds like one confused deer to lay by the same deer stand twice just to get poked the first time with a 357 then later with a 12Ga.
Who knows, I wasn't there.
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Old April 15, 2018, 07:46 PM   #89
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Man, you guys seem to be dancing all around the fact that the Winchester Silvertip bullet does not penetrate well. If you would reread what I wrote, "In the afternoon I was hunting on the ground in the same general area, when a deer came limping near me". Reading is fundamental.

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Old April 15, 2018, 10:57 PM   #90
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Mas Ayoob told me himself that the Silvertip achieved a good rep as a duty load back in the day, for those that didnt jump on the 125gn bandwagon.

I'm not planning any vertical shots on deer with it.
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Old April 15, 2018, 10:59 PM   #91
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Old April 16, 2018, 07:43 AM   #92
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That bullet should have shattered that deers spine (ON topic, Silvertip Penetration).
But.........Several parts of this yarn don't add up.
Is story telling "Fundamental" also?
I assume that we are talking about the same animal?
What type of slug, I prefer Brenneke Classic Magnums.
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Old April 16, 2018, 09:28 AM   #93
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That bullet should have shattered that deers spine (ON topic, Silvertip Penetration).
But.........Several parts of this yarn don't add up.
Is story telling "Fundamental" also?
I assume that we are talking about the same animal?
What type of slug, I prefer Brenneke Classic Magnums.
Man, Guv, do I need to give you a lesson in anatomy? If a bullet only penetrates the hide and is stopped by a thick layer of suet on the animals back, how could it possibly shatter the spine? And, does all of your back cover your spine? Could an animal be shot in it's back somewhere other than directly above it's spine? I am trying my darnest to keep this on topic, and you want to know what 12 gauge slug I used? I am simply saying that I find the Winchester Silvertip bullet lacking in penetration and would never use it. What you do is up to you and no concern of mine.

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Old April 16, 2018, 09:28 AM   #94
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Hmm, must be you've never hunted deer. Deer that are wounded tend to want to lie down first chance they get.
I have, and still do hunt deer. Of the deer I have killed, only one wounded animal had to be dispatched on the ground. With a head shot from my Ruger Super Blackhawk.
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Old Yesterday, 07:26 PM   #95
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Over penetration, too loud in a vehicle or enclosed space,flash blindness at night, speed of followup shots, etc.
There are many reasons not to carry the hottest ammo you can shoot in a gun.

In fact that is the beauty of chosing a .357 magnum instead of the .38 version.
You can choose to shoot anything from mild wadcutters in the summer to the hottest woods loads in four legged territory, all in one gun. What's not to like about that?
Well said, HighValleyRanch, my thoughts, exactly. Rod
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Old Yesterday, 08:29 PM   #96
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USSR is correct, deer often DO seek a place to lay down when wounded. Had it happen on a number of occasions myself as things don't always goes as planned in the woods... thats why its called "hunting". I have hunted my entire life with firearms and recurve bows and many of the arrows were launched from a tree stand at a downward angle. That layer of fat and gristle under the hide he mentioned... yeah, it's real, and VERY thick come November and can diminish the penetration of handgun bullets and broadheads. There isn't anything about his story that doesn't sound plausible or genuine to me. That being said, I would prefer my .270 rifle over a .357 Magnum handgun for deer hunting, hands down. My Remington 700 .270 puts any handgun I own to shame with both massive bone smashing power and distance. Fat and gristle wont slow down a .270 bullet.

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Old Yesterday, 08:29 PM   #97
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How many of you who fear the noise and flash of a .357 indoors have an 18" 12 gauge or better yet, an AR carbine for home defense?
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