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March 2, 2021, 11:34 AM | #26 | |
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Honestly, I feel like interesting starts at: 1) same velocity, 10% weight increase 2) same weight, 100 fps increase I probably wouldn’t own both, unless weight increase was 20% or velocity was 200fps. |
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March 2, 2021, 05:31 PM | #27 | |
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"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk! |
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March 3, 2021, 02:09 AM | #28 | ||
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Off topic but I have the semi-legitimized 19 Badger which is also 30 Carbine-based...which I love and is a great repeater. The 30 Carbine case is an excellent parent case for many applications...too bad Garin's couldn't make it stick with their multicaliber offerings. The 22 TCM though, is essentially a .223 Rem, cut in half & and .224 40g JHP bullet that looks closer to what you see on the end of the 22 WMR. Some comparisons. .22 Spitfire/5.7 Johnson
Next, what's not to like on the TCM's performance? Over 2000fps out of a 5" high-capacity handgun and defeat Class III...few pistols can. (I haven't heard of any semi-auto Spitfires pistols.) In a rifle it is basically a hotrod Hornet with a stronger easier to reload case that is shorter. It is fantastic for a walkabout with a pocket full of ammo...much like a pocket full 22 LR & 22 WMR. With a fast twist barrel, it is a whole new cartridge that delivers devastating results under 200 yards with good enough accuracy for my needs. It has become one of my favorites for this application. Lastly, bullets are cheap ($6/100), unlike hotrods it sips powder which means the barrel stays cool shot after shot. Both rifle and pistol have nearly zero recoil. What's not to love? Sorry so long and hopefully not too much of a derail to the original topic.
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TOU ZBROJOVKA BRNO |
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March 3, 2021, 02:43 AM | #29 | |||
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Quote:
I came across this quote elsewhere that seems appropriate here. Quote:
Sometimes it is about a better functioning cartridge. I.E. feeding Lastly, I agree that manufactures have no choice other than to change a shoulder angle or neck length here & there for many reasons. Ease of manufacture but more importantly for safety to avoid use in older rifles not up to snuff.
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TOU ZBROJOVKA BRNO Last edited by TOU; March 3, 2021 at 09:58 AM. |
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March 3, 2021, 07:45 AM | #30 | |
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"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk! |
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March 3, 2021, 10:37 AM | #31 |
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The American Rifleman numbers were much lower.
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March 3, 2021, 12:44 PM | #32 | ||
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The "lowly" 30-30 would probably go 500 fps faster that a 30-M1 even with a 50% increase in bullet weight!
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March 3, 2021, 04:08 PM | #33 | ||
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Actually what sells guns is marketing hype. "Flatter shooting, more energy down range". 30-06 and 7mm Rem Mag have almost exactly the same trajectory. 300 Win Mag is a little better. 300 Weatherby is even a bit better. But nobody would buy a rifle sold just on real numbers. The small incremental increases do add up, but all in all they're all pretty close until you start getting into medium bore magnums. Quote:
30 Carbine 110 gr comes out about 1,900 fps out of a 20" barrel. That's about a 10% increase in velocity with a 50% heavier bullet. And just for argument's sake, the 30-30 is not exactly "lowly", unless you also consider 308 Win "lowly" (150 gr at 2,500 fps out of a 20" barrel, not even 10% faster).
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March 3, 2021, 04:44 PM | #34 | |
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"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk! |
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March 3, 2021, 05:21 PM | #35 |
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Midway usa, data off the boxes. only 2 loads listed (neither in stock) a Browning and a Winchester.
https://www.midwayusa.com/ammunition...%2B8%2Bwestern
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March 6, 2021, 10:23 AM | #36 |
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If all I could have is one rifle right now it would have to be a 6.5 CM. I don't own one at the moment but that is because I am a big.260 Rem fan. Main reason I would choose the CM is the availability of commercial ammo as well as reloading components. I have no need for anything larger than 140 gn bullets
BTW I have had one 6.0 CM barrel and will never own another, they are throat burners. Mine was toast after 1000 rounds. I just put together a 6BR repeater based on a Stevens receiver. I love the 6BR round for accuracy, ease of load development, and barrel life. Thankfully some reliable magazine's and adapters are now available for it. I think of it as a .243 Win with better barrel life.
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March 6, 2021, 01:16 PM | #37 | |
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What really interests me is that Winchester itself is marketing both side-by-side. IMO, if the 6.8 W succeeds the 270 WSM would necessarily be condemned to obscurity. I don't think this town is big enough for the both of them.
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"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk! |
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March 7, 2021, 09:05 AM | #38 | |
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A well balanced, long range hunting cartridge. A factory 165 gr. Nosler Partition at ~ 2900 fps - would probably put one in my freezer. Red Last edited by Red Devil; March 7, 2021 at 09:15 AM. |
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March 7, 2021, 09:47 AM | #39 | |
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"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk! |
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March 7, 2021, 10:29 AM | #40 |
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New & Improved...Ackley Improved if you reload.
If not, just whatever the new marketing hype is. There are a scant few cartridges that really are new and improved. Maybe 5 in the last 50 years. A lot of the changes in the last 15 years are merely changes to fit into an AR15 or short action bolt gun. The rest is really in powder, bullets and twist rates (which are actually not cartridge mandated). I love to tinker and so I fall for these sometimes just to play. .300BO, .224V, .450BM and a few others...sold along with the dies. Have .350L dies, will probably end up the same. Working on a .280AI, want, not need. Then I think I will go really old school and pick up a lever action in .45-70. I can't tell you how many times I have been told I can't shoot .243Win to 1000 yards because it is an "old" cartridge. I have them twisted 1:7.5 up to 1:12 and there is not really anything the 8 "new and improved" 6mms can do that it can not. Blow it out to AI, and it passes most of them in velocity. |
March 9, 2021, 09:42 AM | #41 |
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I was in town on Sunday and the 6.8 Western was the majority of ammunition on the shelves. I didn't see a rifle, but then I wasn't really looking for a new rifle. At least if you buy a new rifle you can get some ammo to shoot.
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NRA Life Member Last edited by taylorce1; March 9, 2021 at 11:04 PM. |
March 9, 2021, 11:24 AM | #42 | |
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"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk! |
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March 9, 2021, 10:53 PM | #43 |
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This is similar to the 6.5 PRC as well. I saw a YouTube review of the PRC and the host stated the reason that the cartridge is 6.5mm and not 7mm is because you can't get 3200 fps from a 140 grain short action 7mm. I commented that perhaps they should contact Winchester because the 7mm WSM 140gr is rated at 3225fps. The 7mm WSM really deserves to be more popular.
Fact is, the vast majority of hunters kill the vast majority of their game inside 200 yards. At those distances BC is meaningless and SD is more important. Use a premium bullet with a decent SD in a cartridge properly suited to your quarry. All these new long range cartridges serve a purpose I guess, but it's mostly to pad gun & ammo company wallets. After 30 years of PA hunting I've switched to a Ruger American Predator .22-250 for the 1:10 twist and I'm using Federal 60gr Nosler Partitions. Virtually all my kills are inside 100 yards, if not 75. So why do I need my .308, .270 or .35 Rem? (Secretly I love the .35, it's a 760 pump.) I just got the RAP .22-250 so I'm excited to see it in action this year. I plan on getting a Boyds stock to replace the plastic. I only wish it was a Go Wild edition because I really like the Burnt Bronze cerakote. |
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