who do you believe ?

rebs · November 10, 2020, 02:36 PM

It seems the news don't tell us the truth and even the government doesn't always tell the truth. So if you can't trust the news media or the government who do you trust or believe ?

jpx2rk · November 10, 2020, 03:01 PM

All the major news sources tell/state their "opinion" on a topic now, not the facts. I listen to a 2 or 3, then try to form an opinion, usually end up somewhere in the middle of it all.

**44 AMP** · November 10, 2020, 04:54 PM

Do remember that ALL the media doesn't just give us the news, the SELL the news. Even if you personally don't pay a fee you recognize, they are still SELLING a product.

And their product is whatever SELLS. Truth seems to have gone by the wayside, but that's nothing new, and its amazing to me that some people think it is something new. Its not.

Mark Twain is reported to have said
"if you don't read the newspaper, you are uninformed
If you do read the newspaper, your are misinformed!"

Randolph Hearst built a publishing empire on lies and "Yellow Journalism"

you can look that up, if the "progressives" haven't already removed it from our history....

"Fake News" has been with us, probably as long as there has been news. Recognizing it is the trick. A trick not everyone can master, it seems...

stinkeypete · November 10, 2020, 05:18 PM

Look at several sources for confirmation. Extraordinary claims should have copious amounts of evidence from multiple sources. Consider motives. Consider reputations. Consider logic and the ol’ Occam’s Razor argument that without considerable data, the most simple explanation is most likely true.

Consider who has something to gain vs. those without much dog in the fight.

Consider who gains when they claim that individuals should not be encouraged to look at the facts but should instead just take the word of an “expert” or shaman. Sources that have a valuable reputation to lose should be weighted much more heavily than anonymous stuff on the internet or claims by people that expound a multitude of ridiculous positions.

rickyrick · November 10, 2020, 07:10 PM

If they have lied about thing in which you have expertise or knowledge to the contrary, then you must assume that they are lying about things in which you know nothing.

**Aguila Blanca** · November 10, 2020, 07:41 PM

A man I worked for many years ago said more than twice, "Everything you read in the media is true ... unless you have first-hand knowledge of the facts."

natman · November 10, 2020, 09:40 PM

It used to be that the media reported the news. Now they slant the news to tell one end of the political spectrum or the other what they want to hear in order to boost ratings.

It's a driving force behind the political division of the country.

shurshot · November 10, 2020, 09:53 PM

It's a driving force behind the political division of the country.( Natman)

100% spot on!!!

**44 AMP** · November 10, 2020, 11:41 PM

FOLLOW THE MONEY

surprising how often this simple statement leads to the truth behind things.

Our 1st Amendment enumerates freedom of speech, and we boast of our "free press" but that means freedom from govt censorship and interference, NOT freedom from all influences.

There were, and still are some people who just simply want to report the news for what it is, so that people know. Unfortunately we are in an epoch which is dominated by people who want to send a message with the news.

And there is the basic capitalist outlook that (within limits) if you own something you can do what you want with it.

Once upon a time we believed that the news (as reported) were the facts and opinions were found in the editorial section. Today that is obviously not the case, which makes me wonder, if it ever really was...

roscoe · November 11, 2020, 12:14 AM

I hate to say it, but if it is online and anonymous, I am immediately suspect. The major news outlets are at least a little accountable. No online conspiracy theories for me, thanks.

Every day I read NY Times, NPR, and Fox news online. If they all agree on something, it is probably true. If only 1/3 or 2/3, I look deeper.

**Aguila Blanca** · November 11, 2020, 12:34 AM

If the New York Times and National Proletariat Reeducation agree on something, I'm pretty certain it's a lie.

jimbob86 · November 11, 2020, 12:38 AM

My own eyes and good sense. Everyone and everything else is suspect.

Pathfinder45 · November 11, 2020, 02:20 AM

The inherent power of deception is that those who are deceived do not know that they are deceived. In fact, the deceived are resistant to the truth of the matter, for to admit the deception tends to be embarrassing after having invested so much of oneself into it.

FrankenMauser · November 11, 2020, 02:42 AM

Bob. I trust Bob.
He has never lied to me.
Everyone else has.

Oddly enough, though, Alex Jones has been 100% correct in predicting everything this year. I don't listen to or watch his shows, but I have been force-fed some of his stuff by friends. He nailed it -- months ago.

The only thing remaining are the interdimensional vampires.
I can do aliens. I can do vampires. I can do ghosts and corrupt politicians.

But what do we do about the interdimensional aspect?
Is it time for phased plasma rifles?

shurshot · November 11, 2020, 05:56 AM

Not vampires... LIZARD PEOPLE. It's on Youtube, just like Alex Jones, and NPR, NBC won't acknowledge the topic... so it MUST be true!

RETG · November 11, 2020, 07:38 AM

I only trust actions, not words!

And ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free! (Biblical quote from, I believe, John 8:32; however, since I'm not religious I can say it is was an unofficial motto where I used to work a long time ago.)

JWT · November 11, 2020, 10:08 AM

It's called a free press because in most cases it isn't worth paying for.

**44 AMP** · November 11, 2020, 01:12 PM

Quote:

And ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free!

Lovely quote, but knowing the truth does not make you free. It may show you where the chains are, and who holds them, though.

Still within living memory (though barely as time passes) there was a group who used the motto Arbeit Macht Frei (Work makes you free)

Knowing the truth didn't free the people who suffered horribly under their rule. Armed men who believed in freedom did. Americans, mostly.

Something to consider today, especially today Nov 11...

BarryLee · November 11, 2020, 04:10 PM

WSJ, NPR and of course TFL.

running_wolf · November 11, 2020, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pathfinder45

The inherent power of deception is that those who are deceived do not know that they are deceived. In fact, the deceived are resistant to the truth of the matter, for to admit the deception tends to be embarrassing after having invested so much of oneself into it.

This is so true, and exactly the reason I don't talk about religion with people . . . .

jmr40 · November 11, 2020, 08:02 PM

I can't recall any news story from any source that was an outright lie. Every source reports the parts of the story they deem important and leave out the parts they don't see as important. Another source will do the same, but it will often seem as if they are reporting different events.

Two trends that I see as a problem.

#1 Too many people today have a short attention span. If they can't get the story in a 2 minute video segment or be able to read it in under 2 minutes they move onto something else. This tends to force reporters to limit what they say and not provide both sides of the story.

#2 Too many people choose to only get their news from sources that they agree with. If you do so you're not getting the full picture. To quote General Patton, " If everyone is thinking alike, then nobody is thinking". Another quote from an unknown source, "Most people don't really want to hear the truth, they just want constant reassurance that what they believe is true."

OneFreeTexan · November 11, 2020, 09:08 PM

About 100 yrs. ago there was a lot of competition in the newspaper business, so papers would publish anything they could think of, the more outrageous the better, to steal readers from the other papers........about 60 years ago or so, the ‘news’ business saw how Cronkite was doing and tried to improve their truthfulness...didn’t give it much of an effort, so now we are back to where they were 100 years ago.

rickyrick · November 13, 2020, 07:22 PM

I remember being taught at several points in my childhood education about yellow journalism and to be critical of news sources. I’m amazed at the trust people place in anyone with a camera and microphone these days.

I learned a new term this year, “astroturfing”... it means start a fake grass-roots movement.
This applies to gun control efforts.

Double K · November 13, 2020, 09:48 PM

It's pretty easy to sort out who the liars are these days, 99% chance that they've been caught in a lie by the other side and it's been put on youtube at some point, now here's the tricky part, youtube bans and sensors people that they dislike all the time but the video's come and go from the internet.
Politicians constantly contradict themselves, get caught on hot mikes they thought were off and so on and so on.
The poster child for this is Adam Schiff.

zukiphile · November 13, 2020, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rebs

It seems the news don't tell us the truth and even the government doesn't always tell the truth. So if you can't trust the news media or the government who do you trust or believe ?

Sometimes one reads the different question "Which news source do you trust?". Not trusting sources is the first step to giving them the scrutiny they deserve.

I believe that if you draw information from a wide range of sources over time, that you can get a decent feel for which ones are chronically deceptive or so involved in their advocacy that they can't be trusted on factual narratives. Even at that, consuming information from sources that are often inaccurate or incomplete can serve a purpose. If you monitor five sources each of which only gives you the 30% of the information most favorable to its view, you may have a shot at getting 90% of the pertinent information.

November 10, 2020, 04:54 PM	#3
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,820	Do remember that ALL the media doesn't just give us the news, the SELL the news. Even if you personally don't pay a fee you recognize, they are still SELLING a product. And their product is whatever SELLS. Truth seems to have gone by the wayside, but that's nothing new, and its amazing to me that some people think it is something new. Its not. Mark Twain is reported to have said "if you don't read the newspaper, you are uninformed If you do read the newspaper, your are misinformed!" Randolph Hearst built a publishing empire on lies and "Yellow Journalism" you can look that up, if the "progressives" haven't already removed it from our history.... "Fake News" has been with us, probably as long as there has been news. Recognizing it is the trick. A trick not everyone can master, it seems... __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

November 10, 2020, 05:18 PM	#4
stinkeypete Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2010 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 1,292	Look at several sources for confirmation. Extraordinary claims should have copious amounts of evidence from multiple sources. Consider motives. Consider reputations. Consider logic and the ol’ Occam’s Razor argument that without considerable data, the most simple explanation is most likely true. Consider who has something to gain vs. those without much dog in the fight. Consider who gains when they claim that individuals should not be encouraged to look at the facts but should instead just take the word of an “expert” or shaman. Sources that have a valuable reputation to lose should be weighted much more heavily than anonymous stuff on the internet or claims by people that expound a multitude of ridiculous positions. __________________ My book "The Pheasant Hunter's Action Adventure Cookbook" is now on Amazon. Tall tales, hunting tips, butchering from bird to the freezer, and recipes.

November 10, 2020, 07:41 PM	#6
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,460	A man I worked for many years ago said more than twice, "Everything you read in the media is true ... unless you have first-hand knowledge of the facts." __________________ NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO 1911 Certified Armorer Jeepaholic

November 10, 2020, 09:40 PM	#7
natman Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2008 Posts: 2,606	It used to be that the media reported the news. Now they slant the news to tell one end of the political spectrum or the other what they want to hear in order to boost ratings. It's a driving force behind the political division of the country. __________________ Time Travelers' Wisdom: Never Do Yesterday What Should Be Done Tomorrow. If At Last You Do Succeed, Never Try Again.

November 10, 2020, 11:41 PM	#9
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,820	FOLLOW THE MONEY surprising how often this simple statement leads to the truth behind things. Our 1st Amendment enumerates freedom of speech, and we boast of our "free press" but that means freedom from govt censorship and interference, NOT freedom from all influences. There were, and still are some people who just simply want to report the news for what it is, so that people know. Unfortunately we are in an epoch which is dominated by people who want to send a message with the news. And there is the basic capitalist outlook that (within limits) if you own something you can do what you want with it. Once upon a time we believed that the news (as reported) were the facts and opinions were found in the editorial section. Today that is obviously not the case, which makes me wonder, if it ever really was... __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

November 10, 2020, 02:36 PM	#1
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	who do you believe ? It seems the news don't tell us the truth and even the government doesn't always tell the truth. So if you can't trust the news media or the government who do you trust or believe ?

November 10, 2020, 03:01 PM	#2
jpx2rk Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2015 Posts: 387	All the major news sources tell/state their "opinion" on a topic now, not the facts. I listen to a 2 or 3, then try to form an opinion, usually end up somewhere in the middle of it all.

November 10, 2020, 07:10 PM	#5
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,236	If they have lied about thing in which you have expertise or knowledge to the contrary, then you must assume that they are lying about things in which you know nothing.

November 10, 2020, 09:53 PM	#8
shurshot Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2006 Posts: 1,819	It's a driving force behind the political division of the country.( Natman) 100% spot on!!!

November 11, 2020, 12:14 AM	#10
roscoe Senior Member Join Date: July 16, 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 575	I hate to say it, but if it is online and anonymous, I am immediately suspect. The major news outlets are at least a little accountable. No online conspiracy theories for me, thanks. Every day I read NY Times, NPR, and Fox news online. If they all agree on something, it is probably true. If only 1/3 or 2/3, I look deeper.

November 11, 2020, 12:34 AM	#11
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,460	If the New York Times and National Proletariat Reeducation agree on something, I'm pretty certain it's a lie. __________________ NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO 1911 Certified Armorer Jeepaholic

November 11, 2020, 12:38 AM	#12
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	My own eyes and good sense. Everyone and everything else is suspect.

November 11, 2020, 02:20 AM	#13
Pathfinder45 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Posts: 3,224	The inherent power of deception is that those who are deceived do not know that they are deceived. In fact, the deceived are resistant to the truth of the matter, for to admit the deception tends to be embarrassing after having invested so much of oneself into it.

November 11, 2020, 02:42 AM	#14
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	Bob. I trust Bob. He has never lied to me. Everyone else has. Oddly enough, though, Alex Jones has been 100% correct in predicting everything this year. I don't listen to or watch his shows, but I have been force-fed some of his stuff by friends. He nailed it -- months ago. The only thing remaining are the interdimensional vampires. I can do aliens. I can do vampires. I can do ghosts and corrupt politicians. But what do we do about the interdimensional aspect? Is it time for phased plasma rifles? __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

November 11, 2020, 05:56 AM	#15
shurshot Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2006 Posts: 1,819	Not vampires... LIZARD PEOPLE. It's on Youtube, just like Alex Jones, and NPR, NBC won't acknowledge the topic... so it MUST be true!

November 11, 2020, 07:38 AM	#16
RETG Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2009 Location: Somewhere in Idaho, near WY Posts: 507	I only trust actions, not words! And ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free! (Biblical quote from, I believe, John 8:32; however, since I'm not religious I can say it is was an unofficial motto where I used to work a long time ago.) __________________ I give MY OPINION (not often) based on many years shooting at, other than paper targets. I will not debate my experience vs. your experience based on dreams and "what ifs." I'm 73; I'm too damn old to care.

November 11, 2020, 10:08 AM	#17
JWT Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2007 Location: Southern Arizona Posts: 3,888	It's called a free press because in most cases it isn't worth paying for.

November 11, 2020, 04:10 PM	#19
BarryLee Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2010 Location: The ATL (OTP) Posts: 3,946	WSJ, NPR and of course TFL. __________________ A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

November 11, 2020, 08:02 PM	#21
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,806	I can't recall any news story from any source that was an outright lie. Every source reports the parts of the story they deem important and leave out the parts they don't see as important. Another source will do the same, but it will often seem as if they are reporting different events. Two trends that I see as a problem. #1 Too many people today have a short attention span. If they can't get the story in a 2 minute video segment or be able to read it in under 2 minutes they move onto something else. This tends to force reporters to limit what they say and not provide both sides of the story. #2 Too many people choose to only get their news from sources that they agree with. If you do so you're not getting the full picture. To quote General Patton, " If everyone is thinking alike, then nobody is thinking". Another quote from an unknown source, "Most people don't really want to hear the truth, they just want constant reassurance that what they believe is true." __________________ "If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong" Winston Churchill

November 11, 2020, 09:08 PM	#22
OneFreeTexan Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2002 Location: West, Texas Posts: 280	About 100 yrs. ago there was a lot of competition in the newspaper business, so papers would publish anything they could think of, the more outrageous the better, to steal readers from the other papers........about 60 years ago or so, the ‘news’ business saw how Cronkite was doing and tried to improve their truthfulness...didn’t give it much of an effort, so now we are back to where they were 100 years ago.

November 13, 2020, 07:22 PM	#23
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,236	I remember being taught at several points in my childhood education about yellow journalism and to be critical of news sources. I’m amazed at the trust people place in anyone with a camera and microphone these days. I learned a new term this year, “astroturfing”... it means start a fake grass-roots movement. This applies to gun control efforts.

November 13, 2020, 09:48 PM	#24
Double K Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2020 Location: Colorado Posts: 486	It's pretty easy to sort out who the liars are these days, 99% chance that they've been caught in a lie by the other side and it's been put on youtube at some point, now here's the tricky part, youtube bans and sensors people that they dislike all the time but the video's come and go from the internet. Politicians constantly contradict themselves, get caught on hot mikes they thought were off and so on and so on. The poster child for this is Adam Schiff.