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December 9, 2017, 02:02 PM | #26 |
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I don't get it...maybe someone can explain to me what the logic is for polishing a feed ramp when there is no malfunction. The original post seems to suggest that it is a routine and desirable procedure. Why would anyone "fix" something that is not "broken"?
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December 9, 2017, 02:09 PM | #27 | |
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I've heard of reliable semi-automatics turned into boat anchors by unnecessary polishing of feed ramps.
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December 9, 2017, 02:41 PM | #28 |
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I was taught that smooth was more important than shiny. My instructor was Bob Dunlap at Susanville, CA.
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December 9, 2017, 02:58 PM | #29 |
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Good info from Bill DeShivs and HiBC, it's evident they know of what they speak. The last line that Frank Ettin wrote about reliable guns being turned into boat anchors has a lot of truth in it also. I was at a gun show displaying some of the custom guns I built when a guy steps up to the table and starts telling how the feed ramps in my guns could be improved if the feed ramps were high polished with a Dremel. Ron my friend working the table with me turns to look at me because he knew what was coming. I smiled and politely told the gentleman I thought the Dremel was an excellent tool as it alone got me and many other gunsmiths more work then any other tool made. The moral of the story is if it ain't broke don't fix it!
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December 10, 2017, 04:46 AM | #30 |
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There is not a thing wrong with a shiny feed ramp and it's not going to ruin a pistol...unless a person removes a lot of metal or changes angles of the ramp in the process. Properly done it is little more than cosmetic and a smooth or shiny surface on the ramp is not the end of the firearm.
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December 10, 2017, 10:56 AM | #31 | |
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"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
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December 10, 2017, 11:40 AM | #32 |
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Mr Stony, I understand and accept that polishing the feed ramp is on the menu for a classic "semi-auto tune up". My Wilson Combat 1911 video "How To" course covers polishing the feed ramp. I understand the thought behind it.
I'll even agree that DONE RIGHT it may be of some benefit. I'm saying "You are not wrong" with reservations. Problem is everyone with a Dremel is looking for someplace on a gun to use it. And,to a degree,for the pistol smith,polishing the ramp helps pay the electric bill.Its a service to offer. And IMO,while a hacked in feed ramp with transverse cutter marks (or steel case gouges in an alloy frame) present a potential problem...in fact past a smooth,good machined tool finish,the step to "shiny polish" is a bit over rated. The role of the feed ramp in a properly functioning 1911 is over rated. We might look to the feed ramp to remedy nose diving rounds,but the root cause is better magazines,probably,or cartridge length or? but odds are the polish will be a mediocre cure. I have seen some pretty "hack" feed ramps on factory guns. Croation Springfield mil-Spec comes to mind. It looks like someone on a line has a die grinder and a barrel of 1911 frames. The job is "Doing the feed ramp" Problem is,off center,asymetrical,and if you do a midline section of the ramp,the profile resembles a pronounce "Alfred Hitchcock" style beer belly. Which means the lower meplat of a hollow point runs into a near vertical wall at about the feedramps navel. I asked a respectable 1911 TFL builder about this,and he gave me the Marvel suggested ramp angle. With a Bridgeport,I corrected the geometry,then lightly stone my good tool finish. And,I confess,I used a fiber end brush and a bit of diamond compound with my Foredom to put a soft,satin luster on the ramp. The key is,I maintained the .030 step transition step from the ramp to the barrel throat. Its a common,classic error to Dremelize enough steel off to ruin this step. Then the bullet catches on the barrel.So people grind off barrel to "correct" it. More case is unsupported. I know,you don't do that. Cool. But it IS a common "1911 Dremel Syndrome" .......IIRC,smebody even made a "weld in repair feed ramp" to correct it,it was so common. Another key bit of wit:If you don't know what you are doing,don't" |
December 10, 2017, 03:48 PM | #33 |
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I am not a trained gun smith but have 4 decades of experience
I am a trained IC engine port n polish guy I have polished a LOT of car and motor cycle parts... all metals I have an intensive collection of polishing tools materials....including a lot of BIG $$ in stones of a lot of hardness and shapes I can still hot rod many .049 2 stroke Glow engines to produce 1000 to 1500 RPM over stock with some of my techniques I do know the ramp angle and length are critical I would never change a chamber bore without the correct tooling I do know that both the CZ-75b and Taurus PT 1911 feed ramps...under a 10 loupe showed modest machining grooves causing drag and some semi frequent failure to feed with certain ammo Decision... send to gun smith with description of problem and sample ammo--- or try to fix by self Fix by self over 5 years and 4500+ rounds ago Fully agree.... do NOT do this unless 100% confident in skills and equipment... or unwilling to buy a new fire arm if you destroy yours MY own worst case was within my comfort zone |
December 10, 2017, 08:27 PM | #34 |
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Mr. Ettin.......one of us is missing some points, and I'm afraid it's not me. I did not recommend polishing feed ramps or recommend making anything shiny inside of a firearm. My statements were just to the point that a shiny surface..properly done.. is not harmful to the firearm. I agree with other statements here that the transition area into the chamber of a 1911 should not be shortened, but my statements were not of an argumentative nature. I guess my "ignorance" of firearms must be irritating to you, but you can rest assured I will not be anywhere near your firearms.
4V50....Mr. Dunlap was right in his comments about smooth vs. shiny. Other than his style of haircuts, he is very knowledgeable about many things. |
December 11, 2017, 10:42 AM | #35 | |
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December 11, 2017, 10:47 AM | #36 |
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the reason behind polishing a feed ramp is to prevent malfunctions like feeding issues due to a rough feed ramp where the ammunition can sometimes get stuck on the feed ramp on its way up to the chamber in some cases. although not very common it does happen and this just helps prevent it. its like going to a doctor for a annual check up your not sick or have any issues but you do it to prevent any issues with yourself. again its a personal choice.
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December 11, 2017, 10:49 AM | #37 |
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one of the best Gunsmiths in the industry in my opinion. He has the knowledge that many gunsmiths wish to have and he is a advisor for many manufactures. i met him a few times. awesome person.
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December 11, 2017, 10:53 AM | #38 | |
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Quote:
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"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." - Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1b...RUE9AMVlI88MrQ |
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December 11, 2017, 01:12 PM | #39 |
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Good responses and points well taken!
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December 11, 2017, 01:33 PM | #40 | |
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The real point is that someone calling himself an expert (which apparently is your style) is a false note -- it just doesn't ring true. It's not anyone's place to call himself an expert, or a nice guy, or honest, or handsome, etc. Those sorts of assessment are for others to make.
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December 11, 2017, 01:37 PM | #41 |
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This link will take you to the OP's 1911 trigger job on a Kimber.
I'll let it speak for itself without comment. If you don't have a lot of time,I found the footage at around 5:00,17:00 through 20:00 interesting. https://youtu.be/6Kdo-C2pUgc Last edited by HiBC; December 11, 2017 at 01:45 PM. |
December 11, 2017, 01:48 PM | #42 | |
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Quote:
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"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." - Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1b...RUE9AMVlI88MrQ |
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December 11, 2017, 01:55 PM | #43 | |
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Quote:
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"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." - Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1b...RUE9AMVlI88MrQ |
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December 11, 2017, 02:08 PM | #44 | |
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I've always understood that an abrasive, like an Arkansas stone, does remove material, albeit in the case of a fine abrasive like an Arkansas stone very little. Is my understanding incorrect?
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"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
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December 11, 2017, 02:43 PM | #45 |
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Yes,Mr Ettin,they cut.
A basic sear jig can be had from Brownells for about $25.00 I went for the Marvel,myself. I don't think most folks can feel/maintain the flat of a sear engagement surface on a stone. I suspect cold bluing the surface before stoning would be enlightening. In my trade/profession,opinion did not cut it. That's why toolmaking,machining,etc has measuring tools/metrology. For my home use,thats why I recently bought a Browne and Sharpe toolmakers microscope. 30X,protractor head,crosshair reticle,and X-Y micrometer heads about 1 1/2 in in dia,direct reading .0001. Nice tool. I can tell you if the Arkansas stone took off .0002. I can also tell you if its square,or rounded.I can measure the primary and secondary sear angles,and measure the lengths. If you don't measure,you don't know. I use a sear jig.I never went to Trinidad Gunsmith school,but I suspect they teach "Use a sear jig" As a kid I kept my Buck folding Hunter pretty sharp with nothing but a hard Arkansas stone. The stone does cut. Last edited by HiBC; December 11, 2017 at 03:01 PM. |
December 11, 2017, 03:00 PM | #46 | |
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Quote:
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"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." - Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1b...RUE9AMVlI88MrQ Last edited by GorillaGunworks; December 11, 2017 at 03:02 PM. Reason: Missing Quote |
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December 11, 2017, 03:11 PM | #47 |
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Gorrilla,you go back and re-read my posts to you and think about whether I was trying to teach you or bash you.
Whether you choose to learn is up to you. I find it hard to believe they taught you to stone sears without a sear jig at Trinidad. Its my opinion that your youtube videos teach very questionable practices. That's not bashing. Its honest.I don't know yet whether you need more skills,or a different attitude toward workmanship,but IMO,you aren't ready.Not with any of my guns. Take a deep breath.If you sincerely want to learn,this is a good place. |
December 11, 2017, 03:16 PM | #48 | |
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"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." - Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1b...RUE9AMVlI88MrQ |
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December 11, 2017, 03:30 PM | #49 | ||
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But there's a lot of bad information out in cyberspace, because it's so easy to put information out there and make it available to everyone in the world with Internet access. These discussions help test the validity and utility of some of the information that gets sent through the ether. Quote:
I like to cook and have done so for many years. I prepare hollandaise and bearnaise sauces over direct heat -- although every cookbook will tell you to use a double boiler. That's because cookbooks are written for both the experienced cook and the beginner. A beginner will generally not have the skills to prepare certain egg yolk thickened sauces over direct heat, and when he tries he will often get scrambled eggs instead of a smooth, thick, delicious sauce.
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"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
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December 11, 2017, 03:36 PM | #50 | |
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Quote:
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"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." - Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1b...RUE9AMVlI88MrQ |
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