Will slugs open doors?

Sidetracker · October 22, 2001, 04:36 AM

I know police entry teams use shotguns to open doors and I'm wondering what type of ammo they use? If it's special LEO ammo, would regular slugs work in an emergency?

Hal · October 22, 2001, 06:17 AM

Lord I hope not. The thought of them actually getting off the tomatoe plants and sliding into the living room gives me the creeps.

Seriously though, I've wondered this myself since seeing references to entry slugs.

Interlude · October 22, 2001, 10:51 AM

If I recall correctly those "entry" slugs are LEO only, and are designed specifically to break down doors. Interestingly, those handy-dandy battering rams and other non-firearm entry tools can be purchased by anyone.

Regular slugs would probably do the job, albeit less efficiently. I think the purpose of the entry slugs is to speed along the job - to bust the door down as quickly as possible so the BG in the room doesn't have a chance to grab a gun or flush the drugs.

dZ · October 22, 2001, 11:40 AM

i thought doornocker ammo was a powdered lead projectile

massive whump, no pentration

jthuang · October 22, 2001, 11:45 AM

Never used any myself, but I believe dZ is right, breaching rounds are powdered lead so that they have maximum effect on the lock -- while minimizing damage to bystanders or persons behind the door. Breaching shotguns also use a special muzzle attachment that allows: (1) more secure placement of the muzzle on the door or lock (looks like teeth on a muzzle brake) and (2) gases to be diverted away from the blast point.

IIRC Paul Kim's website has a good view of a Remington 870 with Surefire's new handgrip-light and a breaching attachment.

Justin

C.R.Sam · October 22, 2001, 12:12 PM

Called by some "Door Busters", available to anybody but pricey. Bout eight bucks for a three pack. If door and lock that flimsy, big man with a good kick'll bust it open too. The shotgun does allow the shooter to stand a little away from the door.

Sam

Mikey · October 22, 2001, 12:20 PM

Breaching rounds can be pre-fragmented lead, shot or ceramic and are intended to disintegrate on impact while still fracturing the hardened steel door bolt. The muzzle distance is so short (1-3 inches) that even shot loads act like a slug except for the fragmentation after impact.

The problem with slugs is, if you miss the bolt, they tend to rattle around in the room you are trying to enter causing great uneasiness among the room's occupants!

Mikey

Shok · October 22, 2001, 12:51 PM

Sidetracker,

We were sighting in our slug guns last fall. A friend of mine put on a new scope. Turns out it was high and he shot the homemade metal target holder. The slug fragmented and shreded the paper target. Looked like someone attacked it with a weedwacker.

You shoot a bolt with a normal slug at close range you'll probably be going to the hopspital or the funeral home.

Be safe,

Shok

CWL · October 22, 2001, 04:22 PM

I have seen photos of door locks & bolts penetrated with standard slugs. Looked like bent locks with big holes in them, wouldn't have been very safe for anyone on the other side.

Can't remember what PD did the tests though it was in So. CA.

yorec · October 22, 2001, 08:16 PM

Not slugs - too much penetration.

I did go to a class a little while back where we were told that 00 buck could be used in a pinch (If no breaching rounds were available) Even then the muzzle has to be nearly on top of the bolt to be separated, at a downward angle (45 degrees) and we were told to "double tap" it. No, there was no demostration or trial. And I have't tried it on my own so if you get hurt trying it, don't try suing me - I'm tellin' you not to do it. This is a last ditch, desperation, effort...

DML · October 23, 2001, 11:56 PM

Breaching shells are not loaded with powdered lead. Can you imagine the screaming about the toxic lead hazard?

Most breaching shells that I know of are loaded with compressed powdered copper or a mixture of copper and clay or powdered steel and clay.

They are often called "Avon" shells. You know, like "Knock, knock, Avon calling". Royal Arms calls theirs "Clayvon".

October 22, 2001, 04:36 AM	#1
Sidetracker Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2001 Location: Rockford, Illinois Posts: 105	Will slugs open doors? I know police entry teams use shotguns to open doors and I'm wondering what type of ammo they use? If it's special LEO ammo, would regular slugs work in an emergency? __________________ Those who don't read are no better off than those who can't.

October 22, 2001, 11:40 AM	#4
dZ Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 1999 Location: Exiled, Fetid Swamp, DC Posts: 7,548	i thought doornocker ammo was a powdered lead projectile massive whump, no pentration __________________ "O tell the Lacedomecians to damn the torpedoes." BOTR, Chapter V: Some Monsters

October 22, 2001, 11:45 AM	#5
jthuang Senior Member Join Date: January 21, 2000 Posts: 823	Never used any myself, but I believe dZ is right, breaching rounds are powdered lead so that they have maximum effect on the lock -- while minimizing damage to bystanders or persons behind the door. Breaching shotguns also use a special muzzle attachment that allows: (1) more secure placement of the muzzle on the door or lock (looks like teeth on a muzzle brake) and (2) gases to be diverted away from the blast point. IIRC Paul Kim's website has a good view of a Remington 870 with Surefire's new handgrip-light and a breaching attachment. Justin __________________ Justin T. Huang late of Kennett Square, Pennsylvania

October 22, 2001, 12:20 PM	#7
Mikey Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 1998 Location: Tennessee Posts: 885	Yes they will. Breaching rounds can be pre-fragmented lead, shot or ceramic and are intended to disintegrate on impact while still fracturing the hardened steel door bolt. The muzzle distance is so short (1-3 inches) that even shot loads act like a slug except for the fragmentation after impact. The problem with slugs is, if you miss the bolt, they tend to rattle around in the room you are trying to enter causing great uneasiness among the room's occupants! Mikey

October 22, 2001, 12:51 PM	#8
Shok Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2000 Location: IOWA USA Posts: 204	Sidetracker, We were sighting in our slug guns last fall. A friend of mine put on a new scope. Turns out it was high and he shot the homemade metal target holder. The slug fragmented and shreded the paper target. Looked like someone attacked it with a weedwacker. You shoot a bolt with a normal slug at close range you'll probably be going to the hopspital or the funeral home. Be safe, Shok __________________ "In 1789, when used without any qualifying adjective, 'the militia' referred to all citizens capable of bearing arms." Akhil Reed Amar, Yale University ``If we moms can push 9 pound (4 kg) babies through our bodies, some of them with heads as big as bowling balls, surely we can push [gun control] legislation through the halls of Congress,'' Dees-Thomases MMM founder. "Small arms, too, are weapons of mass destruction," Louise Frechette deputy secretary-general for the U.N. small arms conference

October 22, 2001, 06:17 AM	#2
Hal Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1998 Location: Ohio USA Posts: 8,563	Lord I hope not. The thought of them actually getting off the tomatoe plants and sliding into the living room gives me the creeps. Seriously though, I've wondered this myself since seeing references to entry slugs.

October 22, 2001, 10:51 AM	#3
Interlude Member Join Date: September 25, 2001 Location: New York Posts: 21	If I recall correctly those "entry" slugs are LEO only, and are designed specifically to break down doors. Interestingly, those handy-dandy battering rams and other non-firearm entry tools can be purchased by anyone. Regular slugs would probably do the job, albeit less efficiently. I think the purpose of the entry slugs is to speed along the job - to bust the door down as quickly as possible so the BG in the room doesn't have a chance to grab a gun or flush the drugs.

October 22, 2001, 12:12 PM	#6
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Called by some "Door Busters", available to anybody but pricey. Bout eight bucks for a three pack. If door and lock that flimsy, big man with a good kick'll bust it open too. The shotgun does allow the shooter to stand a little away from the door. Sam

October 22, 2001, 04:22 PM	#9
CWL Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2001 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 1,576	I have seen photos of door locks & bolts penetrated with standard slugs. Looked like bent locks with big holes in them, wouldn't have been very safe for anyone on the other side. Can't remember what PD did the tests though it was in So. CA.

October 22, 2001, 08:16 PM	#10
yorec Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2000 Location: Wyoming Posts: 2,328	Not slugs - too much penetration. I did go to a class a little while back where we were told that 00 buck could be used in a pinch (If no breaching rounds were available) Even then the muzzle has to be nearly on top of the bolt to be separated, at a downward angle (45 degrees) and we were told to "double tap" it. No, there was no demostration or trial. And I have't tried it on my own so if you get hurt trying it, don't try suing me - I'm tellin' you not to do it. This is a last ditch, desperation, effort...

October 23, 2001, 11:56 PM	#11
DML Senior Member Join Date: November 24, 2000 Location: Aridzona Posts: 257	Breaching shells are not loaded with powdered lead. Can you imagine the screaming about the toxic lead hazard? Most breaching shells that I know of are loaded with compressed powdered copper or a mixture of copper and clay or powdered steel and clay. They are often called "Avon" shells. You know, like "Knock, knock, Avon calling". Royal Arms calls theirs "Clayvon". __________________ Experience is what you get when you were expecting something else.