Help ID this little guy

**Bud Helms** · January 31, 2010, 09:31 AM

Here are some pics I took of an old single shot cartridge loader that belongs to an acquaintance of mine. I haven't a clue what it is, but I can just imagine it stuck in a Mississippi Gambler's vest pocket.

Any one know what this is?

**Bud Helms** · January 31, 2010, 09:37 AM

More pics ...

This next one is disappointing because it shows some important detail and I must have jumped a half inch when the shot came. If it will help ID the piece I can reshoot it.

It occurs to me that I did not look at the breechface to see if it was a centerfire or rimfire. Nor did I make any attempt to estimate the muzzle diameter. I will check those details unless someone is positive of an ID. I may try a pic of the breechface and reshoot the fuzzy one above while I'm at it.

**Mike Irwin** · January 31, 2010, 09:46 AM

I THINK it's a National Arms No. 1 or No. 2 derringer.

They generally are worth a pretty penny.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...a%3DN%26um%3D1

**Bud Helms** · January 31, 2010, 09:52 AM

That looks like it, Mike.

Man, that was quick!

RJay · January 31, 2010, 01:57 PM

And as a matter of trivia, Colt purchased National and the little derringer became Colts " Third Model Derringer ".

Chipperman · January 31, 2010, 05:39 PM

I dunno, Mike. Nine minutes for the answer. I think you're slipping.

Can you get another pick with the action open? Looks pretty cool!

Harley Nolden · January 31, 2010, 05:48 PM

National Arms Co. Brooklyn New York 1865 1870

Former Moores Patent Firearms Co.

.41 r.f. caliber, single shot deringer

Mike Ewrin is correct

**Mike Irwin** · January 31, 2010, 06:25 PM

Who's Mike Ewrin?

Harley Nolden · January 31, 2010, 06:45 PM

ooooooooooooopps!

Hit the wrong key. My apology Mike Irwin

Hr Harley

**Bud Helms** · February 1, 2010, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Can you get another pick with the action open? Looks pretty cool!

Yeah, I'll try to get a good clear one of the action open and of the beech face. I'll stick a ruler up on the muzzle too.

James K · February 1, 2010, 02:33 PM

Actually, the National (Moore) Second Model derringer became the Colt Second Model; the Colt Third Model (Thuer) is a side turn type. That is a National, as the Colt frame was a little different as were the grips. The caliber is .41 Short rimfire.

I make a value WAG at around $1000 in that condition. Colts, needless to say, go for more.

Jim

cek · February 8, 2010, 03:19 AM

FWIW, here's it's cousin, an All Metal No. 1 or First Model Deringer:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=379182

January 31, 2010, 09:46 AM	#3
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	I THINK it's a National Arms No. 1 or No. 2 derringer. They generally are worth a pretty penny. http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...a%3DN%26um%3D1 __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

January 31, 2010, 06:25 PM	#8
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	Who's Mike Ewrin? __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

February 1, 2010, 02:33 PM	#11
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Actually, the National (Moore) Second Model derringer became the Colt Second Model; the Colt Third Model (Thuer) is a side turn type. That is a National, as the Colt frame was a little different as were the grips. The caliber is .41 Short rimfire. I make a value WAG at around $1000 in that condition. Colts, needless to say, go for more. Jim Last edited by James K; February 1, 2010 at 02:42 PM.

February 8, 2010, 03:19 AM	#12
cek Member Join Date: July 12, 2009 Posts: 87	FWIW, here's it's cousin, an All Metal No. 1 or First Model Deringer: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=379182 __________________ "My Constitutional right to bear arms is, to me, the most significant example of my American heritage of individual freedom and human dignity. Such a right implies that my Government trusts me and, in turn, is worthy of my trust." - Charles E. 'Ted' Kindel (My dad), Gun Digest #19 1965

January 31, 2010, 09:52 AM	#4
Bud Helms Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 1999 Location: Middle Georgia, USA Posts: 13,198	That looks like it, Mike. Man, that was quick!

January 31, 2010, 01:57 PM	#5
RJay Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,936	And as a matter of trivia, Colt purchased National and the little derringer became Colts " Third Model Derringer ".

January 31, 2010, 05:39 PM	#6
Chipperman Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2000 Location: Live Free or Die, Baby! Posts: 1,550	I dunno, Mike. Nine minutes for the answer. I think you're slipping. Can you get another pick with the action open? Looks pretty cool!

January 31, 2010, 06:45 PM	#9
Harley Nolden Staff In Memoriam Join Date: January 8, 1999 Location: Brunswick,GA USA Posts: 1,884	ooooooooooooopps! Hit the wrong key. My apology Mike Irwin Hr Harley