Enfield and Round Balls?

Model12Win · January 16, 2017, 02:17 PM

How do the Enfields do with round balls? I want a Pedersoli Musketoon or 2-Band really bad but .58 Minie balls are expensive. Do to my living conditions (apartment and about to move in less than a year) I can't really take up casting and all that, and pre-made Minies are real high. Pre-made round balls are at least half the price.

So, how do they do? What kind of accuracy can I expect? This will be for range shooting only. Thanks!

eastbank · January 16, 2017, 04:05 PM

i also would like to know as i have a paker hale english made enfield carbine. eastbank.

Hawg · January 16, 2017, 05:30 PM

The 58 Pedersoli two band naval rifle and the 61 musketoon short rifle both have a 1:48 twist. It's not the ideal twist for round balls but they can be quite accurate.

Model12Win · January 16, 2017, 05:54 PM

Thanks, Hawg! I'd mainly be firing at 50 meters distance, so not of too far of a range.

I feel perhaps as time goes by and my living conditions improve I should be able to start casting, but as for now, it is not possible.

Hawg · January 16, 2017, 06:07 PM

I understand. You may have to play around with the ball/patch/powder combo to get the best accuracy out of it.

**4V50 Gary** · January 18, 2017, 10:03 PM

I tried with a Parker Hale Musketoon and could not group.

Model12Win · January 18, 2017, 11:58 PM

Aww.

Maybe I'd be better off with a Hawken's gun... but those weren't used during the war.

Hawg · January 19, 2017, 11:06 AM

Most modern "Hawken" rifles have a 1:48 twist. Buy some balls and try it. Some rifles with a 1:48 twist shoot them quite well. Some rifles take some doing to find a load they like. You can use a lot more powder with a round ball so don't think you're limited to service loads. My .54 Hawken with a 1:66 round ball twist works best with 90 grains of powder which is a fairly light load for a .54.

Model12Win · January 19, 2017, 02:46 PM

I'd be making sure it'd have a round ball twist.

Eyeing the Pedersoli Maple Hawken .54 job.

Hawg · January 19, 2017, 03:36 PM

The Rocky Mountain is a pretty decent rendition of a Hawken. The rear sight is a Gemmer style which wasn't used until around the 1870's.

Ricklin · January 19, 2017, 08:06 PM

My old T/C Hawken shot both patched round balls, and minies quite well. Groups started getting flaky right at 100 grains of powder. The Hawken was a .50 cal.

I don't know what the twist rate was it was a factory built early 80's T/C Hawken. I stupidly traded it for a Univeral M1 carbine that was a POS.

Wish I had that Hawken back, one of the few guns I regret trading.

**4V50 Gary** · January 19, 2017, 10:11 PM

For a while Birge's Western Sharpshooters (66th Illinois Volunteer Infantry) carried sporting guns supplied by Hawkins competitor Dimmick. Dimmick only had 150 rifles at hand and he grabbed rifles from anyone else to meet his contractual obligation to supply the regiment. I think the National Firearms Museum in Fairfax has one as does a private collector in NM (It was marked on the muzzle).

So, if you're into re-enacting, the Lyman Great Plains would be more appropriate but I would also add a steel cap box.

Hawg · January 19, 2017, 10:42 PM

Quote:

So, if you're into re-enacting, the Lyman Great Plains would be more appropriate but I would also add a steel cap box.

I don't think any reenactor groups are going to allow a Hawken unless maybe it's a portrayal of a very early battle. Just because something has provenance doesn't carry much weight with them.

**4V50 Gary** · January 19, 2017, 11:23 PM

Don't disagree with you Hawg. The 66th Illinois is the only documented unit I'm aware of that carried sporting rifles. As the war progressed, they discarded them in favor or other arms including the Henry. Ken Baugman's book has the #s listed.

There were a few sharpshooter rifles made by the Confederates that were very much like those provided by Dimmick. William Edwards' book, Civil War Guns, mentions them and I think the Virginia Historical Society has one in its collection.

There's one in the Lew Wallace's library which he said was recovered at Shiloh. Still, unless it was early war, most guys carried standard military arms (whether produced pre-war, during the war or imported). At one point the guards at Andersonville had Brown Bess muskets. One thing about the Civil War is that it is the most confusing period of small arms in American military history.

Hawg · January 19, 2017, 11:53 PM

Quote:

One thing about the Civil War is that it is the most confusing period of small arms in American military history.

That is certainly true. When war first broke out a lot of Southerners carried what they had. Bess's, shotguns, squirrel guns, just whatever they could get their hands on. Then after a battle they took better guns off the dead yanks and left theirs in their place.

**4V50 Gary** · January 20, 2017, 10:42 AM

Another thing is the further west one went, especially in the Trans-Mississippi region, the more diverse the arms. I should look into what the Confederate Cherokee Rifles were armed with. I read it before, but paid it no attention.

HPT · January 21, 2017, 11:33 PM

The 3 band Enfields have 1:78 twist anyone tried roundball in them?

Hawg · January 22, 2017, 01:32 PM

Quote:

The 3 band Enfields have 1:78 twist anyone tried roundball in them?

The Pedersolis do, I think everybody else's are 1:48. The Pedersoli should be an excellent round ball rifle.

January 16, 2017, 02:17 PM	#1
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	Enfield and Round Balls? How do the Enfields do with round balls? I want a Pedersoli Musketoon or 2-Band really bad but .58 Minie balls are expensive. Do to my living conditions (apartment and about to move in less than a year) I can't really take up casting and all that, and pre-made Minies are real high. Pre-made round balls are at least half the price. So, how do they do? What kind of accuracy can I expect? This will be for range shooting only. Thanks!

January 18, 2017, 10:03 PM	#6
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,841	I tried with a Parker Hale Musketoon and could not group. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

January 19, 2017, 08:06 PM	#11
Ricklin Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Location: SW Washington state Posts: 2,013	My old T/C Hawken shot both patched round balls, and minies quite well. Groups started getting flaky right at 100 grains of powder. The Hawken was a .50 cal. I don't know what the twist rate was it was a factory built early 80's T/C Hawken. I stupidly traded it for a Univeral M1 carbine that was a POS. Wish I had that Hawken back, one of the few guns I regret trading. __________________ ricklin Freedom is not free

January 19, 2017, 10:11 PM	#12
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,841	For a while Birge's Western Sharpshooters (66th Illinois Volunteer Infantry) carried sporting guns supplied by Hawkins competitor Dimmick. Dimmick only had 150 rifles at hand and he grabbed rifles from anyone else to meet his contractual obligation to supply the regiment. I think the National Firearms Museum in Fairfax has one as does a private collector in NM (It was marked on the muzzle). So, if you're into re-enacting, the Lyman Great Plains would be more appropriate but I would also add a steel cap box. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

January 19, 2017, 11:23 PM	#14
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,841	Don't disagree with you Hawg. The 66th Illinois is the only documented unit I'm aware of that carried sporting rifles. As the war progressed, they discarded them in favor or other arms including the Henry. Ken Baugman's book has the #s listed. There were a few sharpshooter rifles made by the Confederates that were very much like those provided by Dimmick. William Edwards' book, Civil War Guns, mentions them and I think the Virginia Historical Society has one in its collection. There's one in the Lew Wallace's library which he said was recovered at Shiloh. Still, unless it was early war, most guys carried standard military arms (whether produced pre-war, during the war or imported). At one point the guards at Andersonville had Brown Bess muskets. One thing about the Civil War is that it is the most confusing period of small arms in American military history. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

January 16, 2017, 04:05 PM	#2
eastbank Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2008 Location: pa. Posts: 2,450	i also would like to know as i have a paker hale english made enfield carbine. eastbank.

January 16, 2017, 05:30 PM	#3
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	The 58 Pedersoli two band naval rifle and the 61 musketoon short rifle both have a 1:48 twist. It's not the ideal twist for round balls but they can be quite accurate.

January 16, 2017, 05:54 PM	#4
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	Thanks, Hawg! I'd mainly be firing at 50 meters distance, so not of too far of a range. I feel perhaps as time goes by and my living conditions improve I should be able to start casting, but as for now, it is not possible.

January 16, 2017, 06:07 PM	#5
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	I understand. You may have to play around with the ball/patch/powder combo to get the best accuracy out of it.

January 18, 2017, 11:58 PM	#7
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	Aww. Maybe I'd be better off with a Hawken's gun... but those weren't used during the war.

January 19, 2017, 11:06 AM	#8
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	Most modern "Hawken" rifles have a 1:48 twist. Buy some balls and try it. Some rifles with a 1:48 twist shoot them quite well. Some rifles take some doing to find a load they like. You can use a lot more powder with a round ball so don't think you're limited to service loads. My .54 Hawken with a 1:66 round ball twist works best with 90 grains of powder which is a fairly light load for a .54.

January 19, 2017, 02:46 PM	#9
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	I'd be making sure it'd have a round ball twist. Eyeing the Pedersoli Maple Hawken .54 job.

January 19, 2017, 03:36 PM	#10
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	The Rocky Mountain is a pretty decent rendition of a Hawken. The rear sight is a Gemmer style which wasn't used until around the 1870's.

January 20, 2017, 10:42 AM	#16
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,841	Another thing is the further west one went, especially in the Trans-Mississippi region, the more diverse the arms. I should look into what the Confederate Cherokee Rifles were armed with. I read it before, but paid it no attention. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

January 21, 2017, 11:33 PM	#17
HPT Member Join Date: March 29, 2015 Location: Morden, Manitoba, Canada Posts: 15	The 3 band Enfields have 1:78 twist anyone tried roundball in them?