The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old March 4, 2019, 09:15 PM   #1
kilotanker22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2012
Location: North Central, PA
Posts: 1,011
So, I picked up some IMR 4451 End, and some RL 17 for my 6.5 creedmoor. I also picked up some more H-4350 as well as 130 grain gamechangers, and 143 grain ELDX bullets.

Now I want to load up a couple ladder tests tonight, but cant decide what to use. The RL 17 will probably yield best velocities, But I have heard that The 4451 commonly yields excellent accuracy....

Maybe just Ladder test both powders with both bullets?

Also considered continuing to fiddle with rl 26, with these bullets.

What I really want is 2850 or better with the 130 grain and 2750 with the 143..

Oh yeah, and this is not with the 24 inch barreled Savage. Its with the 22 inch barreled Ruger Go Wild
__________________
“We do not seek peace in order to be at war, but we go to war that we may have peace. Be peaceful, therefore, in warring, so that you may vanquish those whom you war against, and bring them to the prosperity of peace.
– St. Augustine
kilotanker22 is offline  
Old March 5, 2019, 08:04 AM   #2
hooligan1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2010
Location: Independence Missouri
Posts: 4,372
I didn't get super duper accuracy from 4451 nor RL17.
But I did from H4350, and rl19 with 140 grn Acconds.
Rl26 is pretty slow, I would try RL 23, and RL 16 as they are getting decent reviews...
__________________
Keep your Axe sharp and your powder dry.
hooligan1 is offline  
Old March 5, 2019, 08:38 AM   #3
jmr40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 9,468
H4350 is THE 6.5 CM powder. That is where I'd start if looking for the best balance of velocity and accuracy. I've read that the new 4451 is supposed to be close, but I haven't gotten the same accuracy with it. Haven't spent a lot of time working with it either. I only bought some when H4350 was hard to find. Now that it is on shelves it is all that I use.

From the reports I've read RL 17 is sorta mixed. Some like it, nsome don't.

I have not tried it, but RL26 is reported to be the one to use if speed is your goal. Not a lot of info about accuracy.

I doubt you'll get 2750 with H4350 from the 22" barrel. I was at about 2660 fps with H4350 in my 22" Predator with a load just a scoche over max.
__________________
"If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong"

Winston Churchill
jmr40 is offline  
Old March 5, 2019, 09:15 AM   #4
Rimfire5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2009
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 713
I have tried both IMR4451 Enduron and RL-17 in my two 6.5mm Creedmoor Savages.

In my Savage 12 LRP with a 26 inch barrel, IMR4451 has 8 of the top 10 performing loads.
IMR4350 has the other two - #3 & #6.
The top 10 loads are all with 140 & 147 grain ELD-Ms, and 142 grain SMKs.
The top 10 loads average 0.280 at 100 yards for 5 round groups.
Reloader 17 holds the 16th position with an average of 0.293 with 142 grain SMKs.
This rifle is most accurate with 140 to 147 grain bullets.

In my Savage 10T-SR with a 24 inch barrel, IMR4451 has the #1,#3, # 5 & # 7& #8 positions averaging 0.293.
IMR4350 has the #2, #4, #6, #9 & #10 positions averaging 0.303 for 5 round groups at 100 yards.
The top 10 positions average 0.296 with 5 round groups..
Positions 1 thru 5, 8 & 10 are with 140 ELD-M bullets and #6 & 9 are with 130 TMKs.
This rifle is more accurate with lighter bullets.
Reloader 17 top position is #17 with 140 grain ELD-M bullets at 0.334 average.

IMR4451 Enduron has had good results with my two 6.5mmm Creedmoor rifles and is less temperature sensitive than IMR4350.
Reloader 17 out of 221 loads with the 12 LRP and 89 loads with the newer 10T-SR seems to perform slightly better with lighter bullets, especially with the 140 ELD-Ms and the 130 TMKs.
Rimfire5 is offline  
Old March 5, 2019, 09:16 AM   #5
kilotanker22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2012
Location: North Central, PA
Posts: 1,011
I have been using RL 26 with the 130 grain Game Changer for awhile now in my savage.
I cant get near as much powder in my cases as some guys are saying they shoot without sticky bolt. In my savage 24 inch barrel 47 grains of rl 26 gives me 2925 fps average with like 8 fps SD. And .3 inch groups at 100.

42.2 grains of H-4350 under the ELDX bullet got me 2816 avg, with a sd of 6 fps I think. Also half inch groups at 100.

Worth noting is that with the savage Mag length for these bullets was .050-.070 off the lands. With the ruger. Maglength with both bullets is actually in the lands. So I have more room to tune seating depth.

I started by loading a couple Known loads with Reloder 26 last night. 45 grains rl 26 with the eldx, and 46 grains rl 26 with the gamechanger. If My estimates are correct. I should be almost 2700 with the eldx, and around 2800-2850 with the game changer.

In my savage. 47 grains of rl 26 and that gamechanger bullet was a .3 minute load consistently. It was also average over 2900 fps.

RL 17 with the 143 grain eldx showed some promise. .5 inch group at 100. Avg velocity 2700, SD was 9 fps. This load was a little hot for the federal brass I have. so I am gonna try the same load in the winchester brass I have. So far I have seen a slight decrease in both velocity and pressure signs with the winchester brass.
__________________
“We do not seek peace in order to be at war, but we go to war that we may have peace. Be peaceful, therefore, in warring, so that you may vanquish those whom you war against, and bring them to the prosperity of peace.
– St. Augustine
kilotanker22 is offline  
Old March 5, 2019, 06:56 PM   #6
m&p45acp10+1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 3, 2009
Location: Nebraska Panhandle
Posts: 3,847
My go to load with 130 grain bullets uses Reloader15 as the powder. Half MOA or better out of both of my rifles.

The 140 to 147 My go to powder is IMR 8208XBR. It works well, and half MOA or better out of both of my rifles.
__________________
No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.
m&p45acp10+1 is offline  
Old March 7, 2019, 03:36 PM   #7
Bfglowkey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2018
Posts: 193
RL 17 will usually net highest velocities but if you shoot/load in a temp swing area you will see why RL 17 is not ideal. Very sensitive to temp swings. RL 16 fixes all those problems and keeps the velocity within 2-5% of RL 17 and usually above 4350. The lowest SDs I have seen in any of my Creedmoor loads to date ( both 6.5 and 6)
4451 is solid but will not break the speed bank, nor will it be the tightest group. It is stable like 16 though and will be suitable to pursue if you have difficulties acquiring H4350 or RL 16 regularly. People using RL 26 are chasing the highest speeds without the hottest loads. Common to see 147s pushed at 2800-2900 with RL 26 which makes it nearly good to a mile before it goes transonic. RL26 is very similar to RL 16 in that the SDs are very good so it USUALLY leads to very predictable loads ( good grouping and repeatable drop data) but to really get it to shine you have to realize your going to be compressing the load somewhat. 103-107% is about the area where you will find RL26 shine in 140 pills and above. 130s don't require RL26 to reach 2900fps ( Superformance will get it there pretty easily)
Bfglowkey is offline  
Old March 7, 2019, 05:58 PM   #8
kilotanker22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2012
Location: North Central, PA
Posts: 1,011
With RL 26 I was able to get 3000 with 130 grain. Never loaded the 143 eldx with rl 26 I don't think. I don't mind compressing loads. All of the rl 26 loads I shot were compressed
__________________
“We do not seek peace in order to be at war, but we go to war that we may have peace. Be peaceful, therefore, in warring, so that you may vanquish those whom you war against, and bring them to the prosperity of peace.
– St. Augustine

Last edited by kilotanker22; March 7, 2019 at 06:21 PM.
kilotanker22 is offline  
Old March 9, 2019, 05:24 PM   #9
kilotanker22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2012
Location: North Central, PA
Posts: 1,011
Well I was sable to get 2700 fps with H-4350 and the 143 grain ELDx. SD was 10. I can got a little hotter with this powder and bullet combo. I might actually be able to get 2750. Reloder 17 didn't group quite as well. And the SD was worse at 18. I can also load a bit hotter with that powder.

I intend to retry Reloder 26 with this rifle.
__________________
“We do not seek peace in order to be at war, but we go to war that we may have peace. Be peaceful, therefore, in warring, so that you may vanquish those whom you war against, and bring them to the prosperity of peace.
– St. Augustine
kilotanker22 is offline  
Old April 15, 2019, 08:53 AM   #10
kilotanker22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2012
Location: North Central, PA
Posts: 1,011
I have spent some more time with my Winchester xpr sporter in 6.5 creedmoor and the powders listed above.

With H-4350 and the same load listed above at 42.2 grains and the 143 grain ELDX bullet. I was able to pick it up to 2749 Avg velocity with a SD of 10 fps. I switched back to CCI 200 primers from WLR and went from Federal and Winchester brass to RP brass.

I have found that with Identiclee loads of H-4350 and IMR 4451 The 4451 gives up about 75 fps to h4350 and the SD was not as good at 19 fps. I can load a little hotter. And that may be what I have to do to get the ES and SD in check. Accuracy is excellent with this load though. So I will play with charge weight a little.

With the new Brass and primer combo I was able to safley work up to 48 grains of reloder 26 with both the 130 grain Sierra Tipped Game King and the 129 grain Hornady Interlock. Accuracy was better with the Sierra, but ES and SD were basically the same with the edge going to the Sierra load. The Hornady bullet showed an average velocity of 2875 with ES of 20 and SD of 8. The same load with the Sieraa Game Changer showed an average velocity of 2913, with an ES of 17 and a SD of 6. I attribute the increase in velocity and the slight increase in consistency to the longer Sierra bullet compressing the powder a little more. With the flat base hornady bullet the powder is barely compressed. With the Sierra it is much more so.

Over all best accuracy with this particular rifle has been had with 130 grain Sierra Game changer and Reloder 26. And Imr 4451 with the 143 grain ELDX. ALthough I may stay with H-4350 for that bullet since the velocity spread is much better. However I will see if I can get my spread tightened up with the 4451.

The only bullet/powder combo I have tested in this rifle so far that would not shoot MOA or better. Was the 120 grain Hot Cor with IMR 4451. Velocity spread was too much IMO. ES was 42 FPS with the most accurate load and SD of 21. Accuracy was around 1.25 MOA and the velocity was no more than I was able to easily attain with the 130 grain bullets.

Today when I tested these loads it was very windy and I limited my range to 100 yards. The wind was a steady 10 mph to my back with gusts up to 25 mph. That being said. I did have a small amount of vertical dispersion even in my best groups of the day. The groups I shot today although less than MOA for all but 1. I am confident that they will tighten up when I can shoot on a calmer day.

Also worth mentioning is that this rifle is my deer rifle. So I guess I should be happy with .75 MOA 5 shot groups.
__________________
“We do not seek peace in order to be at war, but we go to war that we may have peace. Be peaceful, therefore, in warring, so that you may vanquish those whom you war against, and bring them to the prosperity of peace.
– St. Augustine
kilotanker22 is offline  
Old April 15, 2019, 11:44 AM   #11
std7mag
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 23, 2013
Location: Central Taxylvania..
Posts: 2,486
I tried the IMR 4451 in my 284 Win and 280 Rem.
Shot decently accurate, but unhappy with the velocity.

For most of my shooting with Alliant powders, i've found they really seem to like Federal Match primers. So i use these. Even in my hunting rifles.

Trying to compare the Sierra Tipped GameKing to the flat based Hornady Interlock is akin to comparing a Mustang to a Hummer.
It's just not the same.
If you want to compare the TGK to anything it should be the Nosler Ballistic Tip.
Of equal weight of course..
__________________
This country was founded on two beliefs.
And I'm pretty sure pork rinds was one of them!
std7mag is offline  
Old April 15, 2019, 12:36 PM   #12
kilotanker22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2012
Location: North Central, PA
Posts: 1,011
Wasn't really trying to compare them. Just noting the different results with both projectiles when all else was equal.
__________________
“We do not seek peace in order to be at war, but we go to war that we may have peace. Be peaceful, therefore, in warring, so that you may vanquish those whom you war against, and bring them to the prosperity of peace.
– St. Augustine
kilotanker22 is offline  
Old April 16, 2019, 02:08 AM   #13
std7mag
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 23, 2013
Location: Central Taxylvania..
Posts: 2,486
Now we need to get you some Peterson cases.
Keep it local.
__________________
This country was founded on two beliefs.
And I'm pretty sure pork rinds was one of them!
std7mag is offline  
Old April 16, 2019, 08:51 AM   #14
kilotanker22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2012
Location: North Central, PA
Posts: 1,011
Trying to get anything around here is stupid. I can get powder, but bullets I am basically limited to Hornady, Nosler and Sierra

Brass is non existent around here unless it's 30-06 or 243.

For me to keep purchases local. I have to buy ammunition to get brass.
__________________
“We do not seek peace in order to be at war, but we go to war that we may have peace. Be peaceful, therefore, in warring, so that you may vanquish those whom you war against, and bring them to the prosperity of peace.
– St. Augustine
kilotanker22 is offline  
Old April 16, 2019, 10:23 AM   #15
std7mag
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 23, 2013
Location: Central Taxylvania..
Posts: 2,486
Cutting Edge, made in Kylertown, PA, will ship to your door. I'm lucky enough to be within driving distance.
Peterson Cartridges is located outside of Pittsburgh. And only a phone call away.
Ditto E.R. Shaw. Have had real good experience with E.R. Shaw! Great barrels at a reasonable price.
When i finally build a match rifle, it will wear an E.R. Shaw barrel.

Hart is over the border in NY, from you.
__________________
This country was founded on two beliefs.
And I'm pretty sure pork rinds was one of them!
std7mag is offline  
Old April 18, 2019, 03:09 PM   #16
reynolds357
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2012
Posts: 4,413
4350, take your pick between H, IMR, or AA.
reynolds357 is offline  
Old April 18, 2019, 03:11 PM   #17
reynolds357
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2012
Posts: 4,413
Quote:
Trying to get anything around here is stupid. I can get powder, but bullets I am basically limited to Hornady, Nosler and Sierra

Brass is non existent around here unless it's 30-06 or 243.

For me to keep purchases local. I have to buy ammunition to get brass.
Just order it.
reynolds357 is offline  
Old April 20, 2019, 06:49 PM   #18
kilotanker22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2012
Location: North Central, PA
Posts: 1,011
I have 7 pounds of h4350
__________________
“We do not seek peace in order to be at war, but we go to war that we may have peace. Be peaceful, therefore, in warring, so that you may vanquish those whom you war against, and bring them to the prosperity of peace.
– St. Augustine
kilotanker22 is offline  
Old April 20, 2019, 07:04 PM   #19
Rimfire5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2009
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 713
Use the H4350.

H4350 is a temperature insensitive powder and is a great 6.5mm powder.
I had a hard time getting it recently and had to order IMR4350 and that is quite temperature sensitive but I make sure I compensate for its sensitivities to maintain the desired velocities.

I also ordered IMR4451 which one of my 6.5mm CMs shoots better than 4350.
To me, having two types of powder to use in my 6.5mm CMs isn't a problem. When you load 5,600 rounds a year like I do, powder gets burned up pretty fast.
I am still on the lookout for H4350.
Rimfire5 is offline  
Old April 20, 2019, 07:40 PM   #20
kilotanker22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2012
Location: North Central, PA
Posts: 1,011
H-4350 is available everywhere here.

All three of my 6.5 Creedmoor rifles have shot RL 26 and the 130 Sierra Tipped Gameking the best.
__________________
“We do not seek peace in order to be at war, but we go to war that we may have peace. Be peaceful, therefore, in warring, so that you may vanquish those whom you war against, and bring them to the prosperity of peace.
– St. Augustine
kilotanker22 is offline  
Old April 20, 2019, 07:48 PM   #21
kilotanker22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2012
Location: North Central, PA
Posts: 1,011
Coincidentally, Alliant powders of the flavor I am after are hard to come by around here.
__________________
“We do not seek peace in order to be at war, but we go to war that we may have peace. Be peaceful, therefore, in warring, so that you may vanquish those whom you war against, and bring them to the prosperity of peace.
– St. Augustine
kilotanker22 is offline  
Old April 20, 2019, 08:16 PM   #22
ReloadKy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 23, 2018
Posts: 107
I was able to find H4350 at a LGS on sale today for $26 a pound!!
ReloadKy is offline  
Old April 20, 2019, 09:52 PM   #23
Unclenick
Staff
 
Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 15,897
All the online sellers seem to have it, with Powder Valley and Midsouth having the lowest prices. You can put up to 50 lbs into a hazmat fee order if you can find some friends who want to buy something, too.
__________________
Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle
Unclenick is online now  
Old April 21, 2019, 08:59 AM   #24
std7mag
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 23, 2013
Location: Central Taxylvania..
Posts: 2,486
If you get on Facebook at all, like Midwayusa.
I keep getting notifications from Midway waiving the hazmat charge on powders and primers.
Usually need to purchase $150 or more.
__________________
This country was founded on two beliefs.
And I'm pretty sure pork rinds was one of them!
std7mag is offline  
Old April 21, 2019, 07:35 PM   #25
reddotlight
Member
 
Join Date: September 24, 2018
Posts: 56
It is still a pretty new powder users will be far and few between. With that said I found my load towards the top end.
reddotlight is online now  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.08227 seconds with 10 queries