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Old September 15, 2021, 08:46 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by wild cat mccane View Post
It's not blame. It's what you stated, is fact.

So the ammunition retailers are increasing pricing to a point that buyers are accepting.

Agreed. So if both sides agreed to this, we have to agree that everything else is just noise.
I can't blame the sellers, not really.

If I was making my living selling something, and discovered that my market would support me raising the price 2-3x what it had been and accept it, then I'm keeping it there. As long as none of my competitors undercut me (and if they do, they're accepting a far lower profit margin), there's really no reason to adjust it down. Especially with the panic buying bulk numbers... we just went from retiring in Biloxi, to retiring in Hawaii.
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Old September 15, 2021, 09:25 PM   #102
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I just watched a program on the Outdoor network on this latest ammo shortage. The CEO from one of the major factory ammo manufacturers claims that they and the rest of the ammo manufacturers are doing everything they can to get supply caught up to increasing demand. Seems reasonable that they would want to produce all the product they can at the high prices they are getting to increase their profits. It’s quite possible that this is being staged, but if the empty mfg. warehouses I saw are to be believed, the supply chain on the manufacturing end is stripped to the bone, and this CEO claims that ammo is shipped out the day after it is produced, none of it is being inventoried at the production end of the supply chain.

I can buy a maximum of 2 boxes at a time of 9mm and .45 ACP at a price that is higher than I want to pay, but I’m still willing to buy it albeit at lower quantities than I’m used to buying. I compare this to the gasoline I put in my car, which also costs more than I want to pay so I’m not doing much joyriding and I don’t want to put the car up on blocks either.
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Old September 16, 2021, 02:05 PM   #103
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It appears thing are getting better for supply but not as much for pricing yet after initial drop when Remington came back online 24/7.

Right now the ammo manufacturers are pouring sand into a big hole and every time they pour another big bag the sand disappears but it is starting to backup. Once the middle man sellers become flush with ammo that they have a hard time moving and retailers that buy direct are with full shelves and displays the hole will become full of sand and backup at the manufacturers end. That is when we will finally see much better pricing as they decide to cut wholesale pricing/make deals and sell their excess sand to the likes of SGAmmo and Target Sports for really good prices. At this point no one knows when that will happen but IMHO it is going to be a while yet and maybe well into 2022 or even 2023. It does appear that most buyers are now just buying what they need at current pricing rather than all they can. The amount of YT videos about "ammo scores" are down to a trickle of what they had been and the long early morning lines of hopeful ammo buyers at big box stores have disappeared too.
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Old September 16, 2021, 04:21 PM   #104
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*there is no CEO from one major seller. Vista/Northrup owns all US ammo companies but whinchester and horandy.
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Old September 16, 2021, 09:33 PM   #105
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Wonder if the lack of Federal right now is the gear up for the subscription based purchasing Forbes announced in July.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/aaronsm...c-sales-surge/
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Old September 17, 2021, 04:14 AM   #106
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Contrary to your expert opinion, your latest also alludes to other reasons for the Shortage to include supplies and materials.
And YES This POTUS is very responsible for the shotage in more than one way. You do not want to lay any blame on this Liberal jerk and defend anyone that say's differently is not the opinion of millions.
In my state we know damn well the consequences of a Liberal President and his cabal of traitors.
Many states across America are focusing on just that this next election For GOV.. Our 2A rights are very important to us among many issues. We get it. Sorry you do not.

And we are still waiting for you to tell us what you paid for ammo at Cabela's before this mess happened. You said you paid close to the same price now? Ok, what were you paying and what are your paying NOW?

Focus on Virginia.

https://thehill.com/opinion/civil-ri...-gun-ownership
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Old September 17, 2021, 04:38 AM   #107
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Walmart still sells Winchester, CCI and Remington at near pre-pandemic prices. They don't have shelves stacked but it shows up frequently.

From those three, I've only bought from CCI directly online, and their prices are higher, to protect retail. It's cheaper at WalMart, or my non-gouging LGS, than CCI direct.

WalMart had two brands of .308 @ $21/box(20) the last time I was in there (Monday). That's half the price of what I was able to find online, last time I looked.
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Old September 17, 2021, 06:31 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by Carl the Floor Walker View Post
Contrary to your expert opinion, your latest also alludes to other reasons for the Shortage to include supplies and materials.
And YES This POTUS is very responsible for the shotage in more than one way. You do not want to lay any blame on this Liberal jerk and defend anyone that say's differently is not the opinion of millions.
In my state we know damn well the consequences of a Liberal President and his cabal of traitors.
Many states across America are focusing on just that this next election For GOV.. Our 2A rights are very important to us among many issues. We get it. Sorry you do not.

And we are still waiting for you to tell us what you paid for ammo at Cabela's before this mess happened. You said you paid close to the same price now? Ok, what were you paying and what are your paying NOW?

Focus on Virginia.

https://thehill.com/opinion/civil-ri...-gun-ownership
That is a great article, hits the nail right on the head. Anyone who would deny this needs to pull their head out of their ### and wake up before it’s too late.
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Old September 17, 2021, 07:55 AM   #109
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You could do a lot to chill. The author of your article is a troll from the most conservative think tank on the planet. I bet even most republicans wouldn't agree with most crap out of that group. Also, isn't backed up. Just wild shots in the dark to disturb people as yourself.

I can tell you I paid $5k higher than normal for one year old Toyota 4Runner this year. Basically brand new pricing for an 8K mile year old car. A new one was booked out in June until September.

Why? A supply chain problem.

So my $7 box of American Eagle at a glut, yeah. What do you think happens when people are hoarding? You are suggesting when 50rnd boxes earlier this year at $40 was raw goods. Oh come on.

Have you bought a 2x4x8 pine stud recently? Care to tell me the price from homedepot you paid today vs 7 months ago vs 2 years ago? Same.

Dude on Glocktalk is proud to have 50K rounds. I straight up asked him the last time he went to the range. This week, month, even this year?...answer was months ago at best.

Vista is about to sell based on subscriptions. Must be Biden's fault.
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Old September 17, 2021, 08:03 AM   #110
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Do you not agree with the user in the handgun section of this forum that living in Switzerland, he is paying normal pricing with no component or availability issue?

If you do believe him, your argument is bunk. And if that is true, who are the villains in all this mess? Retailers.

To be fair, when GunWatcher.com come online before guns.com/gun.deals, the ability to find an amazing gun "deal" disappeared. So these ammoseeks.com and gun.deals are great. There is a consequence though: nature price setting.

What happened to CCI 22 ammo when I told GlockTalk Speer/CCI sold direct for way cheaper than all retailers? It's vaporized. https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/no...pping.1903544/
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Old September 17, 2021, 08:16 AM   #111
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Is ammo availabilty getting better yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wild cat mccane View Post
If you do believe him, your argument is bunk. And if that is true, who are the villains in all this mess? Retailers.

What happened to CCI 22 ammo when I told GlockTalk Speer/CCI sold direct for way cheaper than all retailers? It's vaporized. https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/no...pping.1903544/
We just had a very long back and forth between you and a number of members pointing out the role buyers play in all of this and you seemed to agree in post #98 they are also the problem. Yet here you are again saying the “villains” are the retailers, with no mention of the buyers. Is that simply because you are one of the buyers and don’t want to admit your own role in all of this?

The most interesting thing to me on that thread from GlockTalk is that a number of people there made the same points covered here, yet here you acted like those points were unknown to you despite that thread being almost two months old. If you just want to yell at people start a blog.


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Old September 17, 2021, 08:26 AM   #112
wild cat mccane
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Currently, on ammoseek.com, there is a retailer selling all three types of 9mm HST for $5 below the Vista allowed pricing which is set at $40 a box of 50.

They must be taking a loss because of Biden and higher component prices.
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Old September 17, 2021, 08:48 AM   #113
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Is ammo availabilty getting better yet?

Or the artificial price floor set by Vista simply always allowed for a high profit margin to begin with. You and I have both bought HST for far less before the new pricing enforcement policies. My guess is retailers weren’t selling for a loss then either.


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Old September 17, 2021, 10:48 AM   #114
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Availability is getting better prices are not.
Even the prices for reloading components has gone through the roof.
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Old September 17, 2021, 11:15 AM   #115
Carl the Floor Walker
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Biden, I can barely type his name. And we are talking about ammo and the 2A while he gifted the Taliban with Billions of US paid arms while making Sanctions against shipments of Russian ammo to the US. And which countries will benefit from that Ammo that will not make it into America.
I will agree. The American buyers are part of the perfect storm. Going on the internet claiming they got a great deal. And then see the deal they consider low is actually $25-35 for a box of range ammo that use to cost $10.00. Sometimes I actually wonder if they are plants by the ammo manufacturers to "Price Condition".
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Old September 17, 2021, 11:18 AM   #116
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Is ammo availabilty getting better yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl the Floor Walker View Post
I will agree. The American buyers are part of the perfect storm. Going on the internet claiming they got a great deal. And then see the deal they consider low is acutally $25-35 for a box of range ammo. Sometimes I actually wonder if they are plants by the ammo manufacturers to "Price Condition".
They’re not plants, they’re simply self interested people caught up in a panic. We’ve seen it in a number of other markets during all of this. Don’t underestimate the power of panic. It’s often more real and impactful than any conspiracy could hope to be.


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Old September 17, 2021, 11:34 AM   #117
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No different than those who paid $120 for a $28 sheet of plywood.
Or $12 for a $2.82 2x4. They have come down to $3.97. That price, I figure, is the ,old" price + Pedo Joe's fuel hike raising shipping costs.

This will be the new normal or a bargain, before the old fool is done.
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Old September 17, 2021, 12:19 PM   #118
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No different than those who paid $120 for a $28 sheet of plywood.
Or $12 for a $2.82 2x4. They have come down to $3.97. That price, I figure, is the ,old" price + Pedo Joe's fuel hike raising shipping costs.

This will be the new normal or a bargain, before the old fool is done.
And remember the hoarding of toilet paper and its price a few months ago?

I think that we have reasons to relax, the price of ammo is starting to come down: Ammoseek shows brass cased 9mm at 37 cents and brass cased 308 at 58 cents, brass cased 223 at 45 cents today September 17 (tough luck if like me, you own a rifle in 7.62x39). This is much better than it was in May or June.

There are always panics in the gun community at the beginning of any new Democrat administration. If SCOTUS takes on some 2A cases and rules on the side of the 2A, politicians may start thinking twice about enacting policies against our rights, and the whole market will calm down. The last year has just been a perfect storm of economics and panic feeding uncertainty.
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Old September 17, 2021, 12:42 PM   #119
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The author of your article is a troll from the most conservative think tank on the planet. I bet even most republicans wouldn't agree with most crap out of that group. Also, isn't backed up. Just wild shots in the dark to disturb people as yourself.
The fact that the article comes from a source with a certain political leaning does not invalidate the points in it. I am not uber-conservative, I am much more of a centrist and for some issues I even lean left, yet I think that the article is spot on.

It is true that the modern left is rabidly anti-gun, and when they are tolerant of guns it is in a FUDD way that looks askance at the 2A.

There were much better ways to hurt Russia than to go after their ammo sales in the US (NordStream gas line, for example).

Now even if I doubt the Biden administration's stated reasons for the Russian ammo ban, I do not think that the ban is a big driver of the current high prices of ammo and in this I agree with you. Maybe in a year, but not now.

Supply shortages, a significant demand increase, market uncertainty and panic buying are the reasons behind it. It is happening in other markets too (computer chips).
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Old September 18, 2021, 08:35 AM   #120
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The fact that the article comes from a source with a certain political leaning does not invalidate the points in it. I am not uber-conservative, I am much more of a centrist and for some issues I even lean left, yet I think that the article is spot on.

It is true that the modern left is rabidly anti-gun, and when they are tolerant of guns it is in a FUDD way that looks askance at the 2A.

There were much better ways to hurt Russia than to go after their ammo sales in the US (NordStream gas line, for example).

Now even if I doubt the Biden administration's stated reasons for the Russian ammo ban, I do not think that the ban is a big driver of the current high prices of ammo and in this I agree with you. Maybe in a year, but not now.

Supply shortages, a significant demand increase, market uncertainty and panic buying are the reasons behind it. It is happening in other markets too (computer chips).
Quote:
Originally Posted by wild cat mccane View Post
The author of your article is a troll from the most conservative think tank on the planet. I bet even most republicans wouldn't agree with most crap out of that group. Also, isn't backed up. Just wild shots in the dark to disturb people as yourself.
Lol, Any thing to the right of CNN is crap to the Radical Left. Sorry, Never even saw that article until I posted it on this forum. Actually it is OLD news. So if you want to understand why myself and others are disturbed, you will have to go back in history way before the article. And you will find the same conclusions for many articles and studies etc.

Pistoler0, I agree with what you have said. "Supply shortages, a significant demand increase, market uncertainty and panic buying are the reasons behind it. It is happening in other markets too (computer chips)."
Not to mention oil, lumber and other commodities that are a direct link to policies of the Biden Admin.
Something that should be remembered, is the fact that the Anti's have only been in office for 8 months. It is so important to keep fighting them all the way. From State Governor to Congressman to Senator.
Again the article was on. FOCUS ON VIRGINIA. If CNN or any source want to say that no one believes the article. Then they have Never Been in Virginia, or if they have, they must have been dazed by their own Cool -Aid.
In Virginia WE GET IT.

Hope to see as many supporters at the Richmond Virginia 2A rally this year. The past rally our Gov. did everything possible to stop up. And most 2A supporters know Gov. Ralph Northam as a Staunch Radical anti 2A advocate. This year we are hoping for a Huge change. Which may be the beginning.

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Old September 18, 2021, 12:04 PM   #121
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At 120 posts, there doesn't appear to be anything new to report, and things seem to be moving in a decidedly political direction. Since we don't do politics here, it's time to close this thread.
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