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Old September 17, 2021, 06:20 PM   #1
Bailey71
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Brass Henry

Yes I bought a brass henry 30-30 awhile back w side gate because I did t have the patience to wait on the side gate to come out in blue or case hardened. I wish I would’ve waited. So now I want to let it patina but damn it I keep cleaning it and making it shine like the sun. How can I speed the patina process up. I want that older look
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Old September 17, 2021, 06:28 PM   #2
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Just ignore it--or scratch it up a bit so you aren't as obsessive about it. Kind of like a brand new car.
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Old September 17, 2021, 06:59 PM   #3
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Bluing or ????

Quote:
I want that older look
After a good mineral spirits wipe to remove any surface oil and grease, carefully apply just about any "Bluing" with a damp wipe. It will turn color pretty cast. Solvent wipe, again and buff it. Another additional prep, is to first buff it with scotchbrite steel wool but that other stuff. You can also buy this stuff from an antique restore store of M/L supply store. It's called brass brown. Dixie Gun Works might stil carry it. I use it on new RamRod tips. Also, may check out YouTube ...

God Luck and;
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Old September 18, 2021, 07:29 AM   #4
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Are any of the modern Henry rifles C&R?
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Old September 18, 2021, 01:33 PM   #5
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I don't know, are they 50 years old?
Uberti made a few authentic .44 Henry Flat Rimfires that were classified as antique reproductions, not accepting readily available ammunition.
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Old September 18, 2021, 07:02 PM   #6
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C&R only pertains to the actual firearm in question being 50+ years old, or deriving its value from obscurity or rarity. Reproductions of such firearms DO NOT COUNT. This was what I last read on the ATF website last week.

Modern, 9 times out of 10, will NOT coincide with C&R eligibility.

Have the gun around when someone touches off a black powder gun. Hahah. Just let it sit in the smoke for a moment... that will get the petina on there post haste. I have a reproduction made Brown Bess flintlock, and I didn't get to cleaning the brass fittings fast enough, and they took a petina and browned up overnight. I was able to take some soft brillo to them, some metal polish, and the furntire is back to where it was, but legit, be near a flint shooter, and it'll be QUICK, bud. Hahah
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Old September 18, 2021, 08:31 PM   #7
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It probably has a coating on it to keep it from tarnishing.
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Old September 19, 2021, 10:51 AM   #8
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Measure twice; cut once !!!

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It probably has a coating on it to keep it from tarnishing.
Yes, and I have to back-track on my previous reply as I have only dealt with the .22-Henries and they have an aluminum alloy with some kind of "brass" colored plating/coating. Am not aware of the "Big-Bores" and suggest, you define this before doing any work. .....

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Old September 19, 2021, 12:46 PM   #9
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The big bores are hardened brass.
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Old September 19, 2021, 01:04 PM   #10
Jim Watson
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Quote:
C&R only pertains to the actual firearm in question being 50+ years old
Navy Arms introduced the 1966 Yellow Boy reproduction in 1972. So next year they will start reaching 50 years old. Will that make them C&R?
Henrys came in a lot later. I read that the .44 rimfire repros are rated same as antique or C&R, don't recall which.

I have a K22 made prior to 1962, is it C&R?
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Old September 19, 2021, 03:08 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
Navy Arms introduced the 1966 Yellow Boy reproduction in 1972. So next year they will start reaching 50 years old. Will that make them C&R?
Henrys came in a lot later. I read that the .44 rimfire repros are rated same as antique or C&R, don't recall which.

I have a K22 made prior to 1962, is it C&R?
Yes & Yes.

Can't address rimfire.
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Old September 19, 2021, 06:18 PM   #12
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You can bet that if it is metallic cartridge fed, of whatever chambering, bet on it being governed by C&R.

If you have a few extra minutes, apply for your C&R if you don't already have it. $35 for three years... can't beat it. If you do already have it, the ATF website is pretty clear and helpful when determining what is and is not covered.

They also state that their list is not exhaustive as things are becoming eligible every single day by the very virtue of their age. Just gotta keep an eye on that manufacture date per the serial number.

The only hiccup I run into is what a dealer will consider safe to sell as C&R. I tried purchasing an original action online, as that is the firearm in the governments eyes last I knew. And the seller would NOT budge as the barrel had been ripped off and the stock was destroyed. They considered it no longer original. That is a bit of a grey area with me.

Best of luck. Back to the OP, though. Maybe ask the factory what is on the brass??
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Old September 19, 2021, 07:16 PM   #13
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I have read that modified guns fall out of C&R status. Sporterize that WWI Mauser and it is no longer C&R.
Does a heavily restored gun lose status? I dunno.
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Old September 20, 2021, 03:50 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawg View Post
The big bores are hardened brass.
What is "hardened" Brass?

How is Brass hardened?

Last edited by dahermit; September 20, 2021 at 12:46 PM.
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Old September 20, 2021, 06:51 PM   #15
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Heat treatment just like with high carbon steels. While its not the EXACT same process, it involves heating the metal up until the crystalline structure of the molecules realign or change and strictly following the cooling procedure to make sure they crystallize again.

Steel has carbon that crystallizes, brass has another base alloy that hardens, and while brass is already tough as nails in certain alloys, hard brass is TOUGH NAILS!! Can really handle pressure. A lot of steam rated fittings are hard brass.
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Old September 21, 2021, 05:00 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BornFighting88 View Post
Heat treatment just like with high carbon steels. While its not the EXACT same process, it involves heating the metal up until the crystalline structure of the molecules realign or change and strictly following the cooling procedure to make sure they crystallize again.

Steel has carbon that crystallizes, brass has another base alloy that hardens, and while brass is already tough as nails in certain alloys, hard brass is TOUGH NAILS!! Can really handle pressure. A lot of steam rated fittings are hard brass.
Wrong... Brass can only be hardened by working. Heating and quenching (or not quenching), only softens Brass.
Steel does not form "molecules", it forms "space lattices" as in Ferrite, Austenite, Martensite.

https://sciencing.com/temper-brass-metal-7937058.html
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Old September 22, 2021, 09:20 AM   #17
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Vinegar & salt.
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Old September 22, 2021, 10:12 PM   #18
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Quote:
The big bores are hardened brass.
I don't know if it's actually "hardened"--but long ago when I bought my first brass Henry I called them and asked about about the strength of the brass receiver and was told it is rated to the same pressures as their steel receivers are.
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Old September 24, 2021, 05:04 PM   #19
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Deller's Darkener is an old time coin collector darkener for bronze cents.
It might work.
?????

https://nobleromancoins.com/product_...oducts_id=3212
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Old September 26, 2021, 02:53 PM   #20
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If you look on Matweb, you will see a whole range of tempers for brass, with "Extra Spring" being the hardest style. I believe it is all work-hardened by rolling it out. Percent work-hardening apparently tracks well with percent thickness reduction by rolling. If they over-harden it (get it too close to wanting to crack) they can stress-relieve it to the desired degree in an oven.

In the case of Henry, it would be interesting to know what exact alloy they are using, too.
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Old September 26, 2021, 10:04 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stagpanther View Post
I don't know if it's actually "hardened"--but long ago when I bought my first brass Henry I called them and asked about about the strength of the brass receiver and was told it is rated to the same pressures as their steel receivers are.
On their website they say it's hardened.
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Old September 27, 2021, 09:11 AM   #22
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Their site also says it is "specially formulated", so this isn't regular brass. There are a number of alloys of bronze that are as strong as mild steel. This may be a copper, tin, zinc alloy with brass color and mild steel strength. But I am just speculating. Not knowing the actual alloy, it's pretty impossible to guess how it hardens. Hammer forging would harden regular brass or copper. But we don't have enough information to tell what's happening in this instance.
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Old September 27, 2021, 01:32 PM   #23
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This is a can of worms and I'm going to be sorry I spoke up, but I have a few leads in the form of websites that might be useful.

First, for an understanding of quench-and-temper hardening of steels, search the web for "nbs monograph 88" you will come up with a .pdf that is the very best short treatment of Heat treatment and properties of iron and steel I've ever seen - at https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/Le...onograph88.pdf

Most coppers, brasses, and bronzes - "red metals" - are not hardenable by heat treatment. They are strengthened by cold work, and do not soften until they are heated to temperatures much higher than a rifle receiver would ever see except in a house fire. And those temperatures would screw up the heat treatment of a steel receiver too.

There are, however, a few red metals that do respond to heat treatment, especially precipitation hardening. C17000 through C17200 - the beryllium copper alloys - can achieve very high strengths. They are commonly used for non-sparking tools for use in areas where flammable vapors or energetic materials are present but strengths comparable to those of steel tools are required. These days people are nervous about beryllium (beryllium dust can be toxic) like they are about lead, so speak quietly lest karen get hysterical. The aluminum bronzes and nickel-aluminum bronzes can respond to heat treatment but not the same magnitude gain.

Try https://www.totalmateria.com/Article71.htm
https://www.copper.org/resources/properties/703_5/
https://www.copper.org/applications/...ghalloy02.html

Next go to everyspec.com and search for mmpds-01 (or MIL-HDBK-5J - same thing) - and look at Chapter 7. You can buy later versions of MMPDS if you have $800 or so to spend, but the old "outdated" one is free and was "up to date" as of 2003 or so.

Economics preclude using C17200 for a rifle receiver, but back in school I was tempted to make a fake bronze short sword of of it - you can get it to around 44 HRC - but it seemed like an expensive toy with no real-world application. Old files make fine daggers and they are free, and some tool steels are air-hardening, especially in thin sections.
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Old September 28, 2021, 09:52 AM   #24
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I'm wondering if a magnet will stick to it (magnetable as we joked about it at gunsmithing school)?
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Old September 28, 2021, 11:02 PM   #25
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I wouldn't think so. It wouldn't be brass if it did.
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