Breaking in 1911, broke my wrist. Preventing injuries

[Geezerbiker]

I find this hard to comprehend. My daughter shot 400 rounds out of my M1911 when she was 12 years old...

After that I had to be sure I cranked out plenty of reloads before we went to the range so I could shoot too...

Tony

[Onward Allusion]

How old are you? What kind of shape are you in? Not trying to be funny. As one ages, the body's repair ability declines a lot. 3 days is a long time to be sore from a couple hundred rounds of 45 and it does sound like a nerve issue. I know when I shoot full power 357 loads from a snub, I start getting shaky after a few boxes.

I would recommend a visit to the doc to rule out nerve issues. Second, think about shooting with fingerless gloves.

[Lohman446]

I find this hard to comprehend. My daughter shot 400 rounds out of my M1911 when she was 12 years old...

Ever kept up with a 12 year old for a day at a water park or amusement park? The next morning they are just all set to go and you can barely get out of bed.

Or watched them fall of a bike, skateboard, motorcycle, horse, etc.? Notice they (most of the time) bounce right up and try it again. I would be laying on the ground contemplating my sins and wondering if I should call an ambulance or not.

12 year olds are different than most of us.

[Geezerbiker]

Originally Posted by Lohman446

Ever kept up with a 12 year old for a day at a water park or amusement park? The next morning they are just all set to go and you can barely get out of bed.

Or watched them fall of a bike, skateboard, motorcycle, horse, etc.? Notice they (most of the time) bounce right up and try it again. I would be laying on the ground contemplating my sins and wondering if I should call an ambulance or not.

12 year olds are different than most of us.

She's 36 now and can still shoot that many rounds. She's also very good with a M1911. Her ex was a Marine and I loaned her my M1911 to go shooting with him and his buddies. She out shot all of them and embarrassed them all so bad they wouldn't go shooting with her again. She wasn't the one that told me, this it was her ex...

Tony

[stephen426]

If your wrist is injured, shooting that many rounds can injure it further. I was very concerned about that myself when I broke my arm 9 months ago. I touched wheels when I was riding with my buddy and went down hard on my arm. I hyper-extended 3 fingers, my wrist, and my elbow. It caused chip fractures in my fingers and my elbow. It was only given a partial cast due to concerns about swelling, but was only in a cast for about 6 weeks. I took about 2 months off from the range before seeing how my arm would handle it. I stuck with 9mm first, but have since fired .45 acp, .357 mag, and .44 mag.

Take it slowly and stop when your body tells you to. While some people have the mentality to always push through pain, pain is there to let us know that doing damage to our bodies. When necessary, I understand that we need to push through pain. I used to inline skate a lot with my dog. She loved to run and that was the only way to keep up. My knee was bothering me, but I decided to go anyway. I ended up getting severe tendinitis and my knee swelled up to the size of a large grapefruit. I feel I have a pretty high pain tolerance, but this pain was pretty freaking bad.

Listen to your body unless you HAVE TO push through. Shoot a box or two and call it a day. Going 250 rounds in one go on an injured wrist is a good way to injure your wrist further and possibly cause some permanent damage. Now if someone is shooting at you and you need to shoot back, to hell with your wrist. Your life is more important.

[JDBerg]

A good friend of mine was a competitive bullseye and bowling pin comp shooter who developed micro fractures in his shooting hand. It’s not quite as painful to shoot now as it once was but these days he has to shoot bunny fart reloads in revolvers most of the time.

[Nick_C_S]

Not to change the subject (okay, maybe a little), but I don't think shooting 500 straight rounds is a good way to break in a 1911.

I always did it (I have three 1911's) in 150-175 round increments. 150, clean; 150, clean; 150, clean.

About shooting 250 and getting the shakes: It can happen. That's about my max with a 1911 and hardball ammo. I can go 300 with target 200 LSWC's. A 1911 is not a magnum revolver; but it still has a fairly stout recoil.

Stretching and a little strength training is always helpful. You know, the stuff you don't think about when you're younger.

[Dave T]

I find this hard to comprehend.

Me too! In 1978 my wife (who was 30 years old at the time) went to Gunsite for the 250 Basic course. She took her Gold Cup 45 ACP. When she came home with an "E" ticket (graduated as an Expert with the 45 ACP) she was pumped...but uninjured.

Dave

[spacemanspiff]

I find this hard to comprehend

Not sure why multiple people have difficulty believing a person could suffer fatigue from shooting. Every individual person has a limit on what they can do. Just because one person can do more doesn't mean that every other person should be able to match that ability.

[Lohman446]

Not sure why multiple people have difficulty believing a person could suffer fatigue from shooting. Every individual person has a limit on what they can do. Just because one person can do more doesn't mean that every other person should be able to match that ability.

Gun culture. If you can't shoot caliber X (in this case 45) without noticing it then its a great reason to question your ability and, in the case of old gun culture, masculinity. The thing is this line keeps getting moved upward. At one point the .45 was considered a fairly "hard" recoiling round.

[Waspinator]

Is there anything different with this particular 1911? I found that slight changes can really effect how you react to recoil.

My case was with my SP101. I really never had a problem with shooting .357 out of it (just at the range for some fun, train and carry .38 +p). Then I read about the hogue grip for the SP101 that everyone raved about how it reduced the felt recoil of the gun. I bought it and went shooting. Put some .357 through it at the range and after a while my thumb area of my right hand started hurting. Turns out I actually injured my hand pretty good and the doctor thought it was probably the different grip geometry that I wasn't used to. Ended up having to wear a brace for a while and couldn't shoot anything in that time.

Now I pay close attention to my hands when at the range.. any perceived pain and I stop immediately, even if I have time left. Also, That Hogue grip came right off that SP101 and its in the bottom of some drawer somewhere, lol.

[TxFlyFish]

I’m young and in good shape, but age is catching up and am getting more health conscious. While not experienced in 1911, I have shot plenty of 45 and higher recoil calibers.

Regular extended ambi 1911

[Bilbo463]

I generally go to the range to enjoy myself..... My rule is to stop shooting if and when it’s not fun anymore. Normally I shoot two different handguns of different caliber just to keep it interesting. When my groups open up, I know fatigue is setting in.

My advice...... Pace yourself.

[Aguila Blanca]

Age is part of it, and physical conditioning is part of it. TxFlyFish hasn't said how old he is -- arthritis could be starting to rear its ugly head. He also hasn't said how he earns a living -- if he works at a desk job and his wrist(s) don't get much exercise, shooting 250 rounds of .45 ACP in the span of an hour could easily have overstressed muscles that aren't accustomed to that type and level of stress.

Have you ever looked at the people who shoot a LOT? I've met Rob Leatham at the SHOT Show. The man is a giant -- I had seen innumerable photos of him but somehow none next to other people, so nothing to put him in perspective. Rob is BIG.

Todd Jarrett? The man's forearms are bigger than most people's legs.

Travis Thomasie? Same as Todd Jarrett. I've spoken with Travis a number of times, and corresponded with him via e-mail. He trains regularly, with a focus on arm and wrist strength. Unless you are accustomed to shooting that much on a regular basis, I can see how 250 rounds of full-power .45 ACP would bring on some tendonitis in the wrist(s).

[TxFlyFish]

If I am “old” y’all be ancient

I’m swapping out the grips to Magpul to see if it makes a difference. They’re cheap but feel better than the two pairs of vz (scooped too)

[Aguila Blanca]

What I neglected to mention in post #39 (above) is that, once you develop tendonitis, it takes awhile for it to heal. And if you continue using the injured [whatever], it just prolongs the healing period. I've read reports of/from people who had to give up shooting (or limit themselves strictly to .22) for six months or more to allow enough time to recover from tendonitis.

As for my being ancient ... the young Turks in my Jeep club don't say I'm older than dirt for nothing.

[TxFlyFish]

No I really do appreciate the advice. I’m gonna limit the number of rounds next time, no need to test the limit of the wrist.

I do however want to explore the subject of 1911 thumb over safety hold. It seems the smaller Magpul grips or maybe the triangular tent like shape allows for a more relaxed grip. I feel less pressure on the beaver tail and thumb.

The mag release cutout on the Magpul is more ergonomic than the vz. You could easily rest your right thumb in the cutout “shelf” and shoot it without riding the safety. Left thumb just locks over right thumb. The thumb stays way clear of the safety so you won’t accidentally engage it. Not the “cool” way of shooting 1911 but hey thumb over safety is not the “right” way either

[Aguila Blanca]

Many people (and many trainers) think that the left thumb riding the safety IS "the" way to hold a 1911. That grip doesn't work for me, but I'm a dinosaur as well as a Luddite.

[44 AMP]

About a half century ago I was taught that the right thumb sweeps the safety off (down) during the draw, on its way to the proper position lower on the grip (below the safety).

This was before beavertails, speed bumps and extended safeties or any of the other game gear items many people seem to think the pistol requires today.

I don't play speed games, I don't do "round count" measuring contests, and I'm not going to use an unfamiliar, uncomfortable and awkward grip hold because someone else says it works "better". I don't shoot any pistol with a high thumb, it just doesn't work for me, and some of my guns will hurt you if you do that.

And on the subject of hurt, do be aware that if you have damage, it may not be fully healed when it stops hurting. And that can lead to even more serious damage if you do too much, too soon.

[Geezerbiker]

Before I installed a beaver tail grip safety, I would put a band-aid over the web of my hand were the grip safety met my hand. Otherwise I would need a band-aid afterwards. My daughter had the same problem with the original grip safety digging in. So I kept a few band-aids in the case with my M1911.

If you want to talk about fatigue, I find I start getting tired after a couple hundred .357 Mag rounds.

I've never made it that far with my .44Mag and I'm not going to try either. I found lower power cast bullet loads from that handgun way more fun...

Tony

[HiBC]

There are variations of grip.There are other good vids.
IMO,Mr Jerry M has had some practice and what he does works.

The focus on gripping a blue gun starts at 12:15
https://youtu.be/ChSazF41q-s

[KyJim]

There are variations of grip.There are other good vids.
IMO,Mr Jerry M has had some practice and what he does works.

The interesting point is that Jerry points out that when shooting a semi-auto, if your non-dominant hand isn't very tired after 200 rounds, you are not using it correctly to control muzzle rise. This is from a man who has literally shot millions of rounds.

For me, a typical range trip runs 100-150 rounds of mostly 9mm or mostly .45 acp, depending on the trip (some revolver shooting thrown in, too). After 150 rounds, I get shooter's fatigue and accuracy goes down. My physical strength is only average because I sit at a desk all day and, when I go to the gym, I focus on cardio. I'm not worried about high round counts or shooting .500 SW Magnum, etc. The measure of a man is more than shooting the biggest gun or throwing the most lead downrange.

As far as a 500-round break-in, I've only heard of that for a Baer 1911. I do believe in a break-in/familiarization period of about 250 rounds for any 1911. However, I will put 100 to 150 rounds through a new 1911 in one session, then take it back and clean and lube it. While doing this, I'll inspect it for any unusual wear. That's just my protocol, however.

[rodfac]

About a half century ago I was taught that the right thumb sweeps the safety off (down) during the draw, on its way to the proper position lower on the grip (below the safety).

This was before beavertails, speed bumps and extended safeties or any of the other game gear items many people seem to think the pistol requires today.

I don't play speed games, I don't do "round count" measuring contests, and I'm not going to use an unfamiliar, uncomfortable and awkward grip hold because someone else says it works "better". I don't shoot any pistol with a high thumb, it just doesn't work for me, and some of my guns will hurt you if you do that.

And on the subject of hurt, do be aware that if you have damage, it may not be fully healed when it stops hurting. And that can lead to even more serious damage if you do too much, too soon.

Well worth re-reading...and I'll add...hand sizes vary greatly and what works well for one of the top scoring "games" shooters may not be usable for you. I have size "L" hands and fingers, and ride the safety with my right thumb....my supporting thumb locks down over the right.

And more importantly, I wouldn't expect to fire 250 rounds let alone 500 rounds of most any caliber without painful consequences...matter of fact, 500 swings with a badminton racket would probably leave my 73 yo shoulder sore.

I shoot for fun, not to impress some range rat's idea of macho round count. And I'll agree, no 1911 should need 500 rounds to "break in".

Ymmv, Rod

[Double Naught Spy]

And more importantly, I wouldn't expect to fire 250 rounds let alone 500 rounds of most any caliber without painful consequences...

I don't think a lot of experienced shooters recollect their first time shooting a lot of rounds with a larger caliber pistol like a .45 acp and so it is hard for them to imagine there being any discomfort. I recall my first handgun course where we shot about 50 rounds on the range the first day with various calibers (.22 lr, .32 acp, .38 spl, .45 acp) and I stayed afterward to work on shooting my .45 acp 1911 and put 3 more boxes down range. I was definitely sore the next day when I went back to Day 2 of the class.

It is sort of like if you haven't ridden a bike in the last 10 years and after you get oriented with your new bike, you go on a 1 hour ride with your kids and discover your butt hurts from being in the saddle all that time. To any experienced rider, 1 hours is nothing in terms of causing discomfort.

With shooting and riding, your body adapts and learns to handle the new stressors.

[Jack Ryan]

First off, what is the point of firing 250, 500, what ever rounds in an hour? Is it some stunt for a slick paper magazine article?

Talk about hyperbole, a sore wrist equates with a "broke my wrist"? Ba humbug.