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Old June 10, 2021, 06:26 PM   #26
Carl the Floor Walker
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Originally Posted by Moonglum View Post
You could start by LOCKING YOUR DAMN DOOR!!!!
I was in the Electronic Alarm Industry since a young Man. Went into so many homes and business's after the fact. One thing I was fond of telling friends and Family. Lock your Damn door. And Never open your door to a stranger. Ever!
Many times it is just the simple things that can put you in harms way.
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Old June 10, 2021, 07:12 PM   #27
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There was a guy who used to post on THR a lot (he was in the electronic alarm business too). Every. Single. Time this topic came up he would talk about so clients of his who were murdered in a home invasion (he was never able to link to a news story though). It got really, really old after a while, people eventually asked him to stop posting the story.
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Old June 11, 2021, 03:28 AM   #28
Carl the Floor Walker
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I do not know about the guy you are talking about, although I did post of being in the business, now retired for many years. No one ever told me to stop posting. I have no clients so if you are trying to infer that it was me, DON'T. I have seen many break in's over the years and intrusions to include rape and murder.
If you want a link, you can look up this particular murder in Richmond Virginia where the whole family was killed. I was a friend of the brother of the family. I could probably find other links to murder from Home Invasions in my area as well.
(By the way, this family made the mistake of leaving their front door un-locked during the day)


https://richmond.com/news/local/15-y...74e551d8d.html

At the time I was employed, I did do the security for at least 5 homes where a serial rapist known as the "North End Rapist". I believe at the time he entered at about 7 different homes. I talked to many of the victims.

https://scholar.lib.vt.edu/VA-news/V...7/01270739.htm

I also remember a providing security to many Real Estate Agents when we had a serial rapist that was attacking them on Job site models. I knew one personally and still friends with her to this day.
Being in the business for so many decades, Electronic Security and CCTV, homes, small business, Commercial, industrial etc, I have given my opinion on Break in's, and Protection. I am sorry if that offends you.
If however, you have your own experience or differ in my opinion, please share it. We would all appreciate any ideas that will provide protection for ourselves and loved one.
Thank you

PS Here is yet another link of a wife of a Navy Seal on deployment was murdered along with her children. The Killer lived down the street. No alarm. Entered through the Garage door at night. Extremely heinous murder.

https://murderpedia.org/male.B/b1/burket-russell.htm

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Old June 11, 2021, 07:55 AM   #29
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DDSS is a pretty good guideline, particularly when you actually think about what you’re about to do.
(Don’t Do Stupid Stuff)
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Old June 11, 2021, 08:25 AM   #30
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he was never able to link to a news story though
You say without posting any links to your claims, LOL.
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Old June 11, 2021, 12:22 PM   #31
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The avoid stupid people, places ... I've most frequently see it used as rationalization for carrying something minimal, same as statistics.


Stupid Places - I sometimes go to Wal-Mart
Stupid people (or where stupid people congregate) - I avoid crowds, bars, "bad areas"
Stupid things - No problem, not getting in the ocean (shark food bowl) and I avoid places where I'd be disarmed.
At stupid times - I am not, nor have ever been a night time person; lunch out > dinner out.

I live in a "good area", avoid stupid people and places and my schedule resembles Will Smith in I Am Legend.

Despite that, whether walking the dogs or going to the area of perceived greater threat (WalMart) I'm always carrying a Glock 32 + spare mag wherever.

Why not a pocket 32/380/38 snub? Because if I had to defend myself I'd prefer that Glock 32, so that is what gets carried.
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Old June 11, 2021, 04:01 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by CDW4ME View Post
The avoid stupid people, places ... I've most frequently see it used as rationalization for carrying something minimal, same as statistics.


Stupid Places - I sometimes go to Wal-Mart
Stupid people (or where stupid people congregate) - I avoid crowds, bars, "bad areas"
Stupid things - No problem, not getting in the ocean (shark food bowl) and I avoid places where I'd be disarmed.
At stupid times - I am not, nor have ever been a night time person; lunch out > dinner out.

I live in a "good area", avoid stupid people and places and my schedule resembles Will Smith in I Am Legend.

Despite that, whether walking the dogs or going to the area of perceived greater threat (WalMart) I'm always carrying a Glock 32 + spare mag wherever.

Why not a pocket 32/380/38 snub? Because if I had to defend myself I'd prefer that Glock 32, so that is what gets carried.
It's not the same thing. The best example I can give is the bar district in downtown town Colorado Springs. It's a stupid place, full of stupid people. I wouldn't go down there (apart from work) no matter what I was carrying. Same with the 7-11 I mentioned.
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Old June 11, 2021, 06:01 PM   #33
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What I'm trying to say is while I try not to live my life in fear I also try not to take needless unnecessary risks.
Ah! You are risk averse.

In my trade, we define three attitudes towards risk:

- Risk averse: avoids risks that do not have a sufficiently high payout, and shuns risks that have no chance of reward: that would be you (per your statement above), definitely me, most people, and most living creatures actually.

- Risk neutral: balances risks and rewards, plays the "law of averages": this would an insurance company, most big enterprises, a casino's house...

- Risk loving: seeks risk for risks sake. Teenagers. Many people when they are impaired by drugs or alcohol.

<<So my question is how much of a part does avoidance play in your over all self defense strategy? >>

For me avoidance is 1st. I am by definition risk averse. I don't take chances unless there is something really worthwhile going on. Bars can be worthwhile to me, btw (specially the ones with good music and pretty girls ). I can understand how for others they might not be worth the risk: to each his own. Maybe I am stupid?

When I was younger, I was very much risk loving, and definitely stupid. Fortunately I was also lucky. But hey, as someone said: "I would rather be lucky than smart".
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Old June 11, 2021, 07:20 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Moonglum View Post
Don't go to Stupid Places
With Stupid people (or where stupid people congregate)
To do Stupid things
At stupid times



So the other night in Colorado Springs someone got car jacked in a 7-11 in a known high crime neighborhood. One of the news channels reported it on Facebeast and 10 or 12 people responded something like "That's why I always take my gun when I go there." While I'm reading this I'm thinking "If it's so bad you make a point of bringing your gun there why are you going?"

Unless I'm going somewhere where I am legally prohibited from even having a gun in my car (Military Installations/State prisons and the like) I do not leave my home unarmed. Still armed or not there are places I don't go.

There's an area downtown that is literally nothing but bars/nightspots for 6 or 8 blocks. Each bar by itself isn't bad but if you put that many drunk people in that small of an area there are bound to be problems. There are fights and shootings pretty much every weekend. I don't have any reason to go there so I don't.

I used to be a late nighter until I got to work nights downtown for 4 or 5 years and I got to see what crawled out of the sewers after dark. I've read some postings on other forums by a guy who has 20+ years experience in the criminal justice system who says that your chances of being involved in a homicide sky rocket if you're outside your home after 9 pm. I won't say that I won't be out after 9 but my lifestyle rarely requires it.

So my question is how much of a part does avoidance play in your over all self defense strategy?
Why in the world would you want to "load up" and go to a bad place? I don't carry, but I keep a gun ready. In the car or at home. I guess if I had to pass thru a bad spot, I'd put a gun in my belt or pocket, but I sure wouldn't like it.
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Old June 11, 2021, 07:28 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonglum View Post
Don't go to Stupid Places
With Stupid people (or where stupid people congregate)
To do Stupid things
At stupid times



So the other night in Colorado Springs someone got car jacked in a 7-11 in a known high crime neighborhood. One of the news channels reported it on Facebeast and 10 or 12 people responded something like "That's why I always take my gun when I go there." While I'm reading this I'm thinking "If it's so bad you make a point of bringing your gun there why are you going?"

Unless I'm going somewhere where I am legally prohibited from even having a gun in my car (Military Installations/State prisons and the like) I do not leave my home unarmed. Still armed or not there are places I don't go.

There's an area downtown that is literally nothing but bars/nightspots for 6 or 8 blocks. Each bar by itself isn't bad but if you put that many drunk people in that small of an area there are bound to be problems. There are fights and shootings pretty much every weekend. I don't have any reason to go there so I don't.

I used to be a late nighter until I got to work nights downtown for 4 or 5 years and I got to see what crawled out of the sewers after dark. I've read some postings on other forums by a guy who has 20+ years experience in the criminal justice system who says that your chances of being involved in a homicide sky rocket if you're outside your home after 9 pm. I won't say that I won't be out after 9 but my lifestyle rarely requires it.

So my question is how much of a part does avoidance play in your over all self defense strategy?
i agree, keep a gun handy, but don't go to places where you might need it
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Old June 12, 2021, 12:03 AM   #36
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i agree, keep a gun handy, but don't go to places where you might need it
If you are keeping a gun handy for security, then you are obviously in a place where you might need it. Otherwise, why are you keeping a gun handy? You aren't keeping it handy in case you don't need it.
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Old June 12, 2021, 05:43 AM   #37
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Quite a few years ago, when I still lived in Toronto, Canada. I and a buddy went to a Snub-Nosed pistol match, close to Rochester. Half the match was shot on Saturday, to which we both went to, got drowned in a rainstorm as well!

Sunday he was staying in bed, sick, I went on my own, did well too. We were staying in a Holiday Inn, 4 floors. When I returned, every floor in the parking garage was full, but the top one, no roof on that one, not raining this day.

Found a spot facing the entrance to the stairs, no elevator that I saw. I backed in, grabbed my gun case out of the Trunk, one I had made by a Guy who made instrument cases for musicians. Cutouts in the foam, that stopped things rattling about.

When I looked at the entrance, I saw two young guys, leaned against the side of the two cars that were closest to that entrance, both with a leg cocked up against a door! When they saw the case, they started to walk towards me!

I had the case in my right hand, leaned over, and put it on the gravel, pushed it forward, a couple of inches. Both of them looking at the case.
I now had drawn my LW 45 Colt commander, held two hands, ready position, 45 degrees! Must have looked like a magic trick to these two.

"You are in my way lads" Liverpool Accent and all! They both turned to my right, and took off, one behind the cars against the wall, one in the front.
They both seemed to be looking at me, over their shoulders.

Big clunk noise, now the guy behind the vehicles, was running in the front, behind his buddy. Limping badly, hopping really.
When they were out of sight, I went to look behind the vehicles on my left, the Clunk sound I had heard, was visible, a big long tow bar, behind an old Station Wagon. I bet that hurt.

I described the two youths to the Manager, another young guy. He gave a couple of yea-yeas, and that was that. Lots of adrenalin dump cut in then.
No, I did not mention the Gun.
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Old June 12, 2021, 07:16 AM   #38
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Moonglum, sounds like you are giving sound advice, I don’t understand why so much criticism. I understand completely. I never leave home without a sidearm,but there are areas where I live that I don’t go because the chances of me having to use that firearm mulitiplies by the 1,000’s
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Old June 12, 2021, 08:58 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Brit View Post
When I looked at the entrance, I saw two young guys, leaned against the side of the two cars that were closest to that entrance, both with a leg cocked up against a door! When they saw the case, they started to walk towards me!

I had the case in my right hand, leaned over, and put it on the gravel, pushed it forward, a couple of inches. Both of them looking at the case.
I now had drawn my LW 45 Colt commander, held two hands, ready position, 45 degrees! Must have looked like a magic trick to these two.

"You are in my way lads" Liverpool Accent and all! They both turned to my right, and took off, one behind the cars against the wall, one in the front.
They both seemed to be looking at me, over their shoulders.

Cool story bro. If you overlook the fact that what you're describing is felony menacing (not to mention the fact that Canadian Citizens can't legally carry a firearm in the United States.
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Old June 12, 2021, 10:43 AM   #40
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So much poor understanding of animal behavior. Just because you don't understand why it does something does not mean it is for "no good reason."
well, if you would like to explain running 100 yards across an open field right into the path of a 18wheeler going 65 that was in clear view the entire time, I will gladly listen.

if you would like to explain that after the first 2 or 3 deer get hit by the vehicle, why the next 2 or 3 deer also run right into the vehicle.

If anyone wants to suggest that these animals are "discerning", I will politely disagree.
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Old June 12, 2021, 11:17 AM   #41
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well, if you would like to explain running 100 yards across an open field right into the path of a 18wheeler going 65 that was in clear view the entire time, I will gladly listen.

if you would like to explain that after the first 2 or 3 deer get hit by the vehicle, why the next 2 or 3 deer also run right into the vehicle.

If anyone wants to suggest that these animals are "discerning", I will politely disagree.
Lol, humans do more stupid things than that. They will plow right into the back of a BIG HUGE SOLID YELLOW SCHOOL BUS WITH A LARGE BLINKING RED STOP SIGN FLASHING AND OTHER RED AND YELLOW LIGHTS FLASHING AS WELL!
And they WILL walk in front of a moving Automobile going much slower. I recently watched a guy walk right into a Pole while walking with stupid face buried in a Cell Phone.
Some people can not even figure out, the story of the "Wise Old Buck". Best to avoid them.
God forbid if someone actually told them a metaphor. I am sure they would tell you a person or camel is not capable on going through the eye of a needle for example and argue all day about it.
There are millions of stupid People in the world. Some will even inject Poison into their veins. Never seen a deer do that.
Deer may not comprehend things outside of their natural habitat, Highways, etc. Or be able to read a deer crossing sign. But the smart ones can figure out where safety is in their natural environment, and how to use their instincts pretty damn well. I only wish all Humans could. We would all be MUCH SAFER.
Deer will use the senses God gave them. Some better than others. Millions of humans refuse to use those gifts. Ever seen a person with ear buds stuck in his ears running along a road?

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Old June 12, 2021, 12:32 PM   #42
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Just because people are stupid doesn't mean deer are smart.
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Old June 12, 2021, 12:50 PM   #43
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Moonglum.
At that time, we Canadians had Permits issued by a Sherif near Tonawanda. There was a fear that we could be tripped up, even transporting in a locked case in the trunk. On our way to the match.

Then prior to 911, all you needed to obtain a Florida CCW, was to obtain a Hunting Lic. from Michigan, send it to Florida, with a cheque in US Funds, the CCW came in the mail, good for 7 years. Just prior to it expiring, I was a resident of Florida, with a Green card.
My Son was a Citizen. I obtained a replacement, sent it in, with a change of address.

Now both my wife and I are citizens. Both with CCW's.

At the time of my possibly menacing? I was much older than the two young men, and also significantly smaller as well. Nearly all of my American Friends, except LEOs, have never been in a fight, as an adult. Not I! I was a Bouncer at night Clubs, 1960 till 1965. Never was hit in a fight, stabbed twice at the Cavern Club of Beatles fame.

Some clarification on the Cavern Club. Situated on Mathew Street. No alcoholic drinks, clientele, young kids, girls, 14 or 15-year-olds. Boys the same. Girls, dressed in very short skirts, lots of makeup, help in the padding area Bra Pads.
Except on Friday nights small groups of young men, around 19 years of age. Normally 19-21 Years-of Age. Just out after a quick supper, and a wash (No showers in the homes then) had a few pints. Plus the heat downstairs, it was bother time!
So we stopped them at the Street entrance. I did the talking (You noticed I am mouthy)
Larry Newport or Georgie Downes were the two fighters, Larry ex SAS Trooper he never divulged that, came out when he died. George, was just huge 6ft 4" tall, and massive, hands like spades. Worked on building sights.

We had a good system going. When a group arrived at the door, "What's the score on gettin in, LA?" My question to Larry, or George. Not looking at whoever. "What do you think Mike?" Two instant punches, nose or jaw, kick into the shin, continue downslide scrape. Then step forward, attack who was left. Remember this was the early sixties. It was rough in that big Sea Port.
Certainly not every Friday. But that was a more likely one.

Did anyone come back mob-handed? Not to my knowledge.

Bit more history, I lived in a small town Prescot, 8 miles from the Liverpool docks bombed to bits by the Luftwaffe in WW11.

I was born in 1935, we could see the Dog Fights, our war started in 1939. the American ships delivered our life blood in the shape of supplies every day.
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Old June 12, 2021, 04:10 PM   #44
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If you want to avoid trouble with bad guys, start by understanding them. This is the old "know your enemy" thing you hear bandied about. People looking to commit assaults and robberies are not looking for anyone in particular, they are looking for someone who is unprepared or thinks they have nothing to worry about, or thinks they can handle whatever comes their way and take chances, or other irresponsible behavior. Soft targets, easy marks, people who let their guard down, people who are worth risking combat with to get what they have. The good doctor got ambushed in his home because he thought his neighborhood was safe and he could display his wealth and nothing would come of it. Apparently he was wrong. The only people who can flaunt it are the ones who really are prepared for the "thief in the night", and most of us don't have bodyguards or sicarii. You go places all the time, but you don't know who is watching for the unaware. You do things all the time that tell people if you are aware or not. The supermarket, the mall, the gas station, walking your dog, driving into your garage, mowing your lawn, whatever. And you have no idea who you are telling whether or not you are a good target. We read about stories like this all the time, and many do not end with "happily ever after" because thugs and thieves are smart and persistent and evaluate their targets based on "is it worth it". Mug the guy coming out of the bar for a few bucks and a cell phone? OK. Take on a home invasion? Better be worth the risk. So rather than being on guard against "those people", be aware of the messages you are broadcasting to whoever wants to watch you with bad intentions.
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Old June 12, 2021, 05:55 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by LOLBELL View Post
Moonglum, sounds like you are giving sound advice, I don’t understand why so much criticism. I understand completely. I never leave home without a sidearm,but there are areas where I live that I don’t go because the chances of me having to use that firearm mulitiplies by the 1,000’s
Some folks just feel the need to prove they're the smartest guy in the room
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Old June 12, 2021, 06:04 PM   #46
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If you want to avoid trouble with bad guys, start by understanding them. This is the old "know your enemy" thing you hear bandied about. People looking to commit assaults and robberies are not looking for anyone in particular, they are looking for someone who is unprepared or thinks they have nothing to worry about, or thinks they can handle whatever comes their way and take chances, or other irresponsible behavior. Soft targets, easy marks, people who let their guard down, people who are worth risking combat with to get what they have. The good doctor got ambushed in his home because he thought his neighborhood was safe and he could display his wealth and nothing would come of it. Apparently he was wrong. The only people who can flaunt it are the ones who really are prepared for the "thief in the night", and most of us don't have bodyguards or sicarii. You go places all the time, but you don't know who is watching for the unaware. You do things all the time that tell people if you are aware or not. The supermarket, the mall, the gas station, walking your dog, driving into your garage, mowing your lawn, whatever. And you have no idea who you are telling whether or not you are a good target. We read about stories like this all the time, and many do not end with "happily ever after" because thugs and thieves are smart and persistent and evaluate their targets based on "is it worth it". Mug the guy coming out of the bar for a few bucks and a cell phone? OK. Take on a home invasion? Better be worth the risk. So rather than being on guard against "those people", be aware of the messages you are broadcasting to whoever wants to watch you with bad intentions.
Well, no.

They Petits were targeted because Mrs. Petit and her 11 year old daughter went shopping in the wrong Walmart. One of the criminals saw the daughter and decided to rape her and followed them home.

The two guys that tried to rob me took less than a second to make that determination.

I've had people who knew beyond question that I was armed and aware of their presence and wearing body armor go after me.

The crook may be planning to rob someone that night but who is pretty random.
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Old June 12, 2021, 08:39 PM   #47
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It's all about one's risk appetite and risk tolerance. Most people's risk tolerance decreases when they have stuff to lose - family, job, house, wealth . . .

I will bet that most of the folks here are older or married and don't go out as often as someone in their 20's and single looking for a good time. Back in the day, I'd thought I was pretty invincible. Closing up the clubs at 3AM then going to Denny's was a regular thing. Try to do that now, and I'd probably die from the exhaustion.

The thing is, when one is of a certain mindset, they are not going to avoid "stupid" . . .etc period. It's Darwinism.
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Old June 12, 2021, 09:09 PM   #48
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The thing is, when one is of a certain mindset, they are not going to avoid "stupid" . . .etc period. It's Darwinism.
You're not wrong
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Old June 13, 2021, 05:17 AM   #49
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Old June 13, 2021, 09:50 AM   #50
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Why in the world would you want to "load up" and go to a bad place? I don't carry, but I keep a gun ready. In the car or at home. I guess if I had to pass thru a bad spot, I'd put a gun in my belt or pocket, but I sure wouldn't like it.
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i agree, keep a gun handy, but don't go to places where you might need it
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I dont even know how to begin to address the issues here
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