Looking for a better powder for lead bullets in 9mm

Chainsaw. · February 5, 2017, 02:16 PM

Been tinkering with lead bullets in 9mm at the hopes of keeping my reloading prices down. My jacketed bullet loads have been excellent, good accuracy, good velocities, run great etc. Now my lead bullets have come out the same save for accuracy. I have ran two different types of lead bullets, all home cast, all at decent hardness levels for auto pistols. One is the lee 125grain round nose, the other lee 124 grain truncated cone tumble lube. All powdercoated and sized to .357. The only thing I can think that I haven't tinked yet with is powder. I haven't driven these bullets to hard but do have an expectation of basic power factor. So I guess the reason Im here is to ask if you more experienced reloader can point me to a better suited powder for lead in auto pistols as this is the only other variable I can come up with that may make a difference.

luky-dude · February 5, 2017, 03:39 PM

Try sizing .358. You need a over size expander in what ever press you have so as not to size down the bullet loading it. Measure a pulled bullet, needs to be .357 or .358 is better. Powders try WSF, Silohouette, BE86.

Paul B. · February 5, 2017, 04:27 PM

"Try sizing .358. You need a over size expander in what ever press you have so as not to size down the bullet loading it. Measure a pulled bullet, needs to be .357 or .358 is better. Powders try WSF, Silohouette, BE86."

I concur. I cast my own bullets and size them to .358". A good idea would be to slug your pistol's barrel and find out what the groove diameter is. I slugger the barrels on three 9MM pistols and none were the supposed .355/.356". All three were .357".

What I would try is make up a dummy round with the .358" bullet and see if it will go easily into your chamber. Frankly, based on a test sample of three I don't see a problem.

My usual load is 5.0 gr. of Unique and the Lyman #356402 truncated cone bullet. It'll hold to three inches at 25 yards which is about all I can do even with a custom target 1911 .45 ACP.
Paul B.

Shotgun Slim · February 5, 2017, 07:09 PM

Accurate claims their #7 powder was developed for the 9mm. I can tell you that it is a powder that can be loaded light or heavy and will perform consistently either way. If you are really trying to shoot super-cheaply then other powders will go farther,but #7 is an excellent performer and is easy to find. Titegroup is a favorite powder of many competitors but I think you have to be careful with it as you try to get full power.

ShootistPRS · February 5, 2017, 07:43 PM

I have a fairly new 9mm (CZ75B) and I use TiteGroup powder with 115 and 124 grain bullets. I am not loading lead bullets so my experience is with jacketed. I have had no issues with the powder at all. I have loaded from a full grain under the starting load right up to the maximum loads with perfect operation on every shot. I find TiteGroup as easy to use as any other powder even though the 9mm is sensitive to charges with many powders. I get good accuracy with it over a wide span of loads.

You don't mention which gun you are using and I have heard that some guns don't shoot lead bullets well.

TheGuyOfSouthamerica · February 5, 2017, 07:43 PM

Do NOT size 'em at all.

As Lee Precision intended it to be: used "as cast".

Lee cast bullets do NOT Need to be sized or resized.

mikejonestkd · February 5, 2017, 08:52 PM

I have had good results with Bullseye, Win 231/ HP-38, Unique and Power pistol for lead bullets in the 9mm.
I have standardized on Bullseye and Unique for minimum power/ plinking ammo, win 231 for most midrange loads, and power pistol when I want to approach the top end.

tntviper1 · February 6, 2017, 06:50 AM

i just started into reloading, so take that with a grain of salt.

i bought alliant BE86 and use 115gr lead bullets.

dialed it in at 5.7 gr a load and could not tell the difference from a factory load, very accurate and cycles the slide fine.

Chainsaw. · February 6, 2017, 09:37 AM

Thanks for all the considerations guys, Ill look into each of them.

reloader28 · February 6, 2017, 10:34 AM

Bullseye and .358 here too

Dufus · February 6, 2017, 04:23 PM

I have been using VV N340 for quite some time and it is wonderful in the 9s.

With my cast bullet, it gives a good fill and removes any room for powder charge errors.

It is also the cleanest that I have used in the 9s and it has absolutely no muzzle flash even when shot after sundown.

My cast bullet is a Lyman design that I modified to remove the bevel base. With my alloy, the bullet casts average of 135 gr.

I load for 2 S&Ws and 2 STIs. none of them will chamber a 0.358" bullet, but they will chamber a 0.357"+ bullet.

I honed the sizer die to give me a glove like fit. They shoot well and I have shot up to 150 cast bullets with no detectable amount of lead with the eye, but I can detect minute traces with a bore scope.

A 4lb jug of VV N340 can give a little over 5600 rounds. That is a little over 100 lbs of alloy.

Lastly I make note that my bullets average BHN 8 to 9.

My velocities average 1070 fps.

Chainsaw. · February 6, 2017, 05:27 PM

Thanks Alot Dufus! A couple of my books have Vitavora at the top of the list. Ive never used their powder but have always heard good things. Ill give it a whirl.

Hoppy · February 6, 2017, 08:33 PM

I use the Lee 125 round nose tumble lube. I don't size them. They drop pretty big.

I use Green Dot powder and like it. Accuracy seems pretty good. I tumble lube them with 45/45/10. I have powder coated other bullets but not this one. You could gain .001 with some powder coat. Have you tried your round in another pistol to see how it runs?

chris in va · February 9, 2017, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Do NOT size 'em at all.

As Lee Precision intended it to be: used "as cast".

Lee cast bullets do NOT Need to be sized or resized.

Couldn't disagree more.

My Lee 356-125 RN drops at .362 using wheelweights. I powdercoat then size down to .358 and charge with 3.8gr Universal which runs 980fps out of my CZ P01.

RC20 · February 9, 2017, 09:39 PM

I have Penn hard cast, HS-6 is their fond powder.

I don't remember what grains, maybe on their web site.

Did ok, never got any 9 mm hand loads to shoot that great.

Good for target practice, only ones that are good are factory Golden Saber.

Too costly for practice .

FrankenMauser · February 9, 2017, 10:14 PM

I run Unique.
It's dirty, but works well.

Quote:

Do NOT size 'em at all.

As Lee Precision intended it to be: used "as cast".

Lee cast bullets do NOT Need to be sized or resized.

Next time you try to shove a .359" "as-cast" bullet in a thick-walled case, into a minimum-spec chamber, you may change your mind.

Not to mention...

Lee's tolerances and quality control are absolute garbage.
There's no guarantee, whatsoever, that a bullet that's supposed to drop at, say, .357" is going to be anywhere close.

I have a Lee bullet mold advertised to drop at 0.430" that actually kicks bullets out between 0.427" and 0.436".
Nothing smaller than 0.430" or larger than 0.432" is usable as-cast; and the undersized stuff is garbage as soon as it drops from the mold.

Failing to size bullets, especially from a low quality mold, is a mistake, in my opinion.
It reminds me of a friend of my father. He used to load .300 Win Mag with "surplus" 4831 and some kind of 180 grain bullet. He filled the case to the mouth, seated a bullet, and crimped heavily. No weighing of charges. No real pressure testing - ever. Just fill it and fire it. The load was never great, and was rarely even good. But it went bang and put holes in things, so he trusted that it would always be that way.
...Until he blew a case head one day, and took a piece of shrapnel in the eye.

RC20 · February 10, 2017, 02:15 PM

Frank M:

The term is "Normalizing Deviation"

You push something to the limits and it does not bite you.

Either you keep doing it or push it further.

Either way when it bites you, its too late.

huntinaz · February 10, 2017, 02:34 PM

My favorite has been titegroup for 124/125gr cast, .356"

Using American Select now and it's alright, stupidly got rid of my XDM, it shot everything well. The XDs shoots them OK but I need another full size 9mm

Mike / Tx · February 13, 2017, 10:06 AM

I don't use the Lee TC bullet but do shoot a LOT of the RN along with several others that cover from around 125-145'ish grains depending on the alloy.

As mentioned above Bullseye, BE-86, and AA-7 are my go to powders. I like them due to how well they flow through the measure and for economics with Bullseye. The others might not load as many but shoot ragged hole groups with most bullets.

I also size them all to .358 whether powder coated or conventional lubed.

I can usually run a couple hundred through with ease and no leading what so ever. Mostly that is a range session so not sure how many I could actually go through before function became an issue due to residue.

Oh I'm running these through a Sig 226 TO and a 320. For power I like the BE86 and #7. The shoot great, especially the #7.

pete2 · February 13, 2017, 11:08 AM

I shot 1000 Dardas Cast 124 RN, used Unique I had on hand. They shot OK, I shoot IDPA style so super accuracy isn't my goal but they shot as well as plated bullets do. Shooting a Citadel 1911 gun. LC9 didn't like them, leaded a bit in the LC. There's not much difference in price between the cast and the plated bullets so I have stayed with the plated ones. A friend of mine loaded some a little on the upper end and ended up with key holes. Prolly need to keep the velocity in the low to mid range.

February 5, 2017, 02:16 PM	#1
Chainsaw. Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2015 Location: Issaquah WA. Its a dry rain. Posts: 1,774	Looking for a better powder for lead bullets in 9mm Been tinkering with lead bullets in 9mm at the hopes of keeping my reloading prices down. My jacketed bullet loads have been excellent, good accuracy, good velocities, run great etc. Now my lead bullets have come out the same save for accuracy. I have ran two different types of lead bullets, all home cast, all at decent hardness levels for auto pistols. One is the lee 125grain round nose, the other lee 124 grain truncated cone tumble lube. All powdercoated and sized to .357. The only thing I can think that I haven't tinked yet with is powder. I haven't driven these bullets to hard but do have an expectation of basic power factor. So I guess the reason Im here is to ask if you more experienced reloader can point me to a better suited powder for lead in auto pistols as this is the only other variable I can come up with that may make a difference. __________________ Just shoot the damn thing.

February 6, 2017, 09:37 AM	#9
Chainsaw. Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2015 Location: Issaquah WA. Its a dry rain. Posts: 1,774	Thanks for all the considerations guys, Ill look into each of them. __________________ Just shoot the damn thing.

February 6, 2017, 05:27 PM	#12
Chainsaw. Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2015 Location: Issaquah WA. Its a dry rain. Posts: 1,774	Thanks Alot Dufus! A couple of my books have Vitavora at the top of the list. Ive never used their powder but have always heard good things. Ill give it a whirl. __________________ Just shoot the damn thing.

February 10, 2017, 02:34 PM	#18
huntinaz Senior Member Join Date: September 21, 2010 Location: az Posts: 1,332	My favorite has been titegroup for 124/125gr cast, .356" Using American Select now and it's alright, stupidly got rid of my XDM, it shot everything well. The XDs shoots them OK but I need another full size 9mm __________________ "When there’s lead in the air, there’s hope in the heart”- Hunter’s Proverb "Feed me, or feed me to something. I just want to be part of the food chain." -Al Bundy

February 13, 2017, 10:06 AM	#19
Mike / Tx Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Posts: 2,101	I don't use the Lee TC bullet but do shoot a LOT of the RN along with several others that cover from around 125-145'ish grains depending on the alloy. As mentioned above Bullseye, BE-86, and AA-7 are my go to powders. I like them due to how well they flow through the measure and for economics with Bullseye. The others might not load as many but shoot ragged hole groups with most bullets. I also size them all to .358 whether powder coated or conventional lubed. I can usually run a couple hundred through with ease and no leading what so ever. Mostly that is a range session so not sure how many I could actually go through before function became an issue due to residue. Oh I'm running these through a Sig 226 TO and a 320. For power I like the BE86 and #7. The shoot great, especially the #7. __________________ LAter, Mike / TX

February 5, 2017, 03:39 PM	#2
luky-dude Junior Member Join Date: May 22, 2013 Posts: 11	Try sizing .358. You need a over size expander in what ever press you have so as not to size down the bullet loading it. Measure a pulled bullet, needs to be .357 or .358 is better. Powders try WSF, Silohouette, BE86.

February 5, 2017, 04:27 PM	#3
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,802	"Try sizing .358. You need a over size expander in what ever press you have so as not to size down the bullet loading it. Measure a pulled bullet, needs to be .357 or .358 is better. Powders try WSF, Silohouette, BE86." I concur. I cast my own bullets and size them to .358". A good idea would be to slug your pistol's barrel and find out what the groove diameter is. I slugger the barrels on three 9MM pistols and none were the supposed .355/.356". All three were .357". What I would try is make up a dummy round with the .358" bullet and see if it will go easily into your chamber. Frankly, based on a test sample of three I don't see a problem. My usual load is 5.0 gr. of Unique and the Lyman #356402 truncated cone bullet. It'll hold to three inches at 25 yards which is about all I can do even with a custom target 1911 .45 ACP. Paul B. __________________ COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

February 5, 2017, 07:09 PM	#4
Shotgun Slim Senior Member Join Date: March 9, 2014 Location: Va Posts: 291	Accurate claims their #7 powder was developed for the 9mm. I can tell you that it is a powder that can be loaded light or heavy and will perform consistently either way. If you are really trying to shoot super-cheaply then other powders will go farther,but #7 is an excellent performer and is easy to find. Titegroup is a favorite powder of many competitors but I think you have to be careful with it as you try to get full power.

February 5, 2017, 07:43 PM	#5
ShootistPRS Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2017 Posts: 1,583	I have a fairly new 9mm (CZ75B) and I use TiteGroup powder with 115 and 124 grain bullets. I am not loading lead bullets so my experience is with jacketed. I have had no issues with the powder at all. I have loaded from a full grain under the starting load right up to the maximum loads with perfect operation on every shot. I find TiteGroup as easy to use as any other powder even though the 9mm is sensitive to charges with many powders. I get good accuracy with it over a wide span of loads. You don't mention which gun you are using and I have heard that some guns don't shoot lead bullets well.

February 5, 2017, 07:43 PM	#6
TheGuyOfSouthamerica Junior member Join Date: September 10, 2016 Posts: 846	Do NOT size 'em at all. As Lee Precision intended it to be: used "as cast". Lee cast bullets do NOT Need to be sized or resized.

February 5, 2017, 08:52 PM	#7
mikejonestkd Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Brockport, NY Posts: 3,716	I have had good results with Bullseye, Win 231/ HP-38, Unique and Power pistol for lead bullets in the 9mm. I have standardized on Bullseye and Unique for minimum power/ plinking ammo, win 231 for most midrange loads, and power pistol when I want to approach the top end. __________________ You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.

February 6, 2017, 06:50 AM	#8
tntviper1 Junior Member Join Date: January 30, 2017 Posts: 5	i just started into reloading, so take that with a grain of salt. i bought alliant BE86 and use 115gr lead bullets. dialed it in at 5.7 gr a load and could not tell the difference from a factory load, very accurate and cycles the slide fine.

February 6, 2017, 10:34 AM	#10
reloader28 Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2009 Location: nw wyoming Posts: 1,061	Bullseye and .358 here too

February 6, 2017, 04:23 PM	#11
Dufus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2014 Posts: 1,965	I have been using VV N340 for quite some time and it is wonderful in the 9s. With my cast bullet, it gives a good fill and removes any room for powder charge errors. It is also the cleanest that I have used in the 9s and it has absolutely no muzzle flash even when shot after sundown. My cast bullet is a Lyman design that I modified to remove the bevel base. With my alloy, the bullet casts average of 135 gr. I load for 2 S&Ws and 2 STIs. none of them will chamber a 0.358" bullet, but they will chamber a 0.357"+ bullet. I honed the sizer die to give me a glove like fit. They shoot well and I have shot up to 150 cast bullets with no detectable amount of lead with the eye, but I can detect minute traces with a bore scope. A 4lb jug of VV N340 can give a little over 5600 rounds. That is a little over 100 lbs of alloy. Lastly I make note that my bullets average BHN 8 to 9. My velocities average 1070 fps.

February 6, 2017, 08:33 PM	#13
Hoppy Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2000 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 287	I use the Lee 125 round nose tumble lube. I don't size them. They drop pretty big. I use Green Dot powder and like it. Accuracy seems pretty good. I tumble lube them with 45/45/10. I have powder coated other bullets but not this one. You could gain .001 with some powder coat. Have you tried your round in another pistol to see how it runs?

February 9, 2017, 09:39 PM	#15
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	I have Penn hard cast, HS-6 is their fond powder. I don't remember what grains, maybe on their web site. Did ok, never got any 9 mm hand loads to shoot that great. Good for target practice, only ones that are good are factory Golden Saber. Too costly for practice .

February 10, 2017, 02:15 PM	#17
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	Frank M: The term is "Normalizing Deviation" You push something to the limits and it does not bite you. Either you keep doing it or push it further. Either way when it bites you, its too late.

February 13, 2017, 11:08 AM	#20
pete2 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 2,566	I shot 1000 Dardas Cast 124 RN, used Unique I had on hand. They shot OK, I shoot IDPA style so super accuracy isn't my goal but they shot as well as plated bullets do. Shooting a Citadel 1911 gun. LC9 didn't like them, leaded a bit in the LC. There's not much difference in price between the cast and the plated bullets so I have stayed with the plated ones. A friend of mine loaded some a little on the upper end and ended up with key holes. Prolly need to keep the velocity in the low to mid range.