Who made Walkers?

[Oquirrh]

I know Uberti did.

But a guy offered me a Walker at a tantalizing price, but he doesn't know the manufacturer. He says it's "old even for a replica" and doesn't seem to be marked.

He lives too far away for me to drop by to look over for proof markings (unless I have a pretty good idea I'm going to buy it.)

In short, were any of the reproduction Walkers real losers?

Second, do you Walker owners actually shoot your Walkers, get decent accuracy and enjoy them? I'd hate to buy something that's going to gather dust.

[mykeal]

Contemporary replica Walkers have been made by Uberti:


and Armi San Marco:
.

Colt's Manufacturing Company also produced contemporary Walkers in the Second Generation 'F' Series; these are considered original Colt production guns.

Colt Blackpowder Arms Co. also produced contemporary Walkers as Third Generation Colts, although there is some controversy as to whether these qualify as original Colts.

The Second and Third Generation Walkers are considered premium guns and command premium prices. Uberti's guns are generally consided very good to excellent quality, and ASM's come close to that standard, although they do lack a bit in fit and finish compared to Uberti's guns.

Yes, I shoot both regularly, get very good accuracy and enjoy them immensely.

[Fingers McGee]

Contemporary replica Walkers have been made by Uberti:
and Armi San Marco:

Colt's Manufacturing Company also produced contemporary Walkers in the Second Generation 'F' Series; these are considered original Colt production guns.

Colt Blackpowder Arms Co. also produced contemporary Walkers as Third Generation Colts, although there is some controversy as to whether these qualify as original Colts.

The Second and Third Generation Walkers are considered premium guns and command premium prices. Uberti's guns are generally consided very good to excellent quality, and ASM's come close to that standard, although they do lack a bit in fit and finish compared to Uberti's guns.

Yes, I shoot both regularly, get very good accuracy and enjoy them immensely.

Agree with Mykeal has said with the exception that Colt Blackpowder Arms Co. produces the Signature Series Colts under a license from Colt that are erroneously called 3rd Generation Colts. They are not considered to be Colts and are not recognized as such by Colt.

I've had and shot Ubertis and ASMs. The Ubertis were accurate & reliable. The ASM was reliable but not quite as accurate and not near as good looking. Have never shot a Sig Series Walker; but have handled them & they do look pretty. I collect 2nd Gens; but haven't shot a Walker. Most of my collection is still NIB.

[pohill]

COLT´S MANUFACTURING COMPANY, INC. Current firearms manufacturer with headquarters located in West Hartford, CT.
Colt´s Manufacturing Company, Inc. is the previous manufacturer of 2nd Generation Colt percussion revolvers located in Hartford, CT. Colt used subcontractors to supply rough castings for the manufacture of these black powder pistols. Throughout the production years 1971-1982, these rough castings were produced in Italy and the reproductions were completed in the United States. Initially, Val Forgett and Navy Arms provided these parts/components during 1971-73. Lou Imperato supplied these parts from 1974 to 1976. In both instances, these revolvers were assembled and finished in Colt´s facilities in Connecticut. Finally, from 1978 to 1982, Colt subcontracted both parts procurement and final production to Lou Imperato and Iver Johnson Arms in Middlesex, NJ. Colt percussion revolvers produced by Iver Johnson had frames, center pins, nipples, and screws manufactured in the United States. In all instances, these revolvers were manufactured in accordance with Colt´s strict specifications and quality control. Additionally, Colt´s performed final inspection for all models. All percussion models manufactured from 1971 through 1982, either by Colt or its subcontractor, are regarded as authentic Colt pistols and not Italian replicas.
The Colt Custom Shop also produced a limited number of special editions through the early 1990s from 2nd Generation production inventory.

The "C" Series 2nd gen.s

COLT´S MANUFACTURING COMPANY, INC. : "C" SERIES These Colt percussion revolvers were reintroduced in 1971 (1851 Navy) and 1974 (3rd Model Dragoon). Both models were discontinued in late 1976 (no reference is made to them in either the 1977 Colt Catalog or Colt Price List). The 1851 Navy and Third Model Dragoon were the only models to be produced in both the "C" Series and "F" Series configurations. While the fit and finish of both series is of the highest quality, the difference is unmistakable. The "C" Series has a beautiful bright "Royal Blue" finish while the "F" Series has a more durable dark "Colt Blue" finish. Another distinguishing feature is the serial number range (4201 to 25099 for the "C" Series 1851 Navy and 20901 to 25099 for the "C" Series Third Model Dragoon).

The "F" Series

COLT´S MANUFACTURING COMPANY, INC. : "F" SERIES Production of these revolvers began in November 1978 with the 1860 Army and continued with the release of the various models described below until all production ceased in November 1982. Special Edition and Limited Edition models continued to be issued from the Colt Custom Shop inventory through the mid-1990s. Rumors persist, even at this late date, that a few in-the-white specimens are still hidden away at Colt´s. "F" Series revolvers were produced with a durable dark "Colt Blue" finish while the "C" Series finish is a more lustrous "Royal Blue."


COLT BLACKPOWDER ARMS CO. Previous manufacturer and retailer of 3rd Generation Colt Black Powder pistols and muskets located in Brooklyn, NY 1994-2002.
All 3rd Generation Colt black powder models are also referred to as Signature Series Models.
A reprise of the original Colt Black powder line, along with historic models not offered in the 2nd Generation, and a new series of Commemoratives, each model (with the exception of the Heirloom Tiffany 1860 Army and 1842 Texas Paterson) bears the Sam Colt signature on the back strap. These 3rd Generation models were manufactured under an authorized licensing agreement with Colt Firearms by Colt Black powder Arms Company – the same company (and many of the same craftsmen) responsible for the 2nd Generation Colt revolvers. Although parts for the Signature Series were cast in Italy, they were fully assembled and hand finished in the United States using the proprietary Colt formulas for bluing and color case hardening.

Colt Black powder Arms Company Signature Series revolvers are regarded as authentic Colt pistols. The 3rd Generation models have original Colt markings, including the barrel address and serial number stampings. There are no foreign proof marks on these authentic Colt models.
Another rumor heard is that Colt started production of the C Series with the next in line s/n from the old 1851 Colt Navy
S/N's.....Not so. I believe where that rumor got started is when there were a few 5 digit Dragoons inadvertently made with in original Dragoon S/N range. These are "F" series.

[Oquirrh]

. . . Especially MYKEAL for answering my most important question: are Walkers fun.

Yes, I shoot both regularly, get very good accuracy and enjoy them immensely.

[madcratebuilder]

I have been lucky to find two second generation 'F' Series Colts. A Walker and a 61 Navy, both at used Uberti prices. If you look around you can find some good deals. I have two 58 Remingtons also, a Pietta 8" and a Uberti carbine. They all are a hoot to shoot. I just picked up the carbine, nib, unfired, $350 at a local pawn shop. I hadn't planned on buying one but at that price I went for it.

[Fingers McGee]

Colt Black powder Arms Company Signature Series revolvers are regarded as authentic Colt pistols. The 3rd Generation models have original Colt markings, including the barrel address and serial number stampings. There are no foreign proof marks on these authentic Colt models.
Another rumor heard is that Colt started production of the C Series with the next in line s/n from the old 1851 Colt Navy
S/N's.....Not so. I believe where that rumor got started is when there were a few 5 digit Dragoons inadvertently made with in original Dragoon S/N range. These are "F" series.

While some may regard the Sig Series as being Colts - Colts Manufacturing Company , Inc. does not. The C series 1851 Navy serial numbers were a continuation of the First and Second Model Square Back 1851 Navies. Originals were serial numbered from 1 to 4200. C Series Second Gens picked up the serial numbers at 4201.

[pohill]

While some may regard the Sig Series as being Colts - Colts Manufacturing Company , Inc. does not.

I'm curious - where did you get that info?

[Fingers McGee]

I'm curious - where did you get that info?

From Dennis Russel's book 'Percussion Colt Revolvers - The Second Generation'. From page 13:

"Regardless of "C" series or "F" series manufacturing origin, Colt's performed on site final inspection and shipped all Colt Second Generation Percussion Revolvers. Additionally, they managed the sales, marketing and manufacturing processes and accepted the product liability for these revolvers. It's for these important reasons that Colt Second Generation Persussion Revolvers letter exactly the same way as other frearms previously manufactured by Colt's.

This is not the case with the recently discontinued "Signature Series" or "Third Generation" of Colt Percussion revolvers that were manufactured from 1994 through June 2002. This statement is supported by an article published in the November 1994 issue of "Gun Tests" magazine. It revealed thet Colt's Manufacturing Co. apparently concerned that its customers might be confused by similar manes, says it has nothing to do with black powder guns being sold under the 'Authentic Colt Black Powder Signature Series Name. They went on to quote Jeff Crute, Colt's Vice President of sales and marketing. He is reported as stating "The guns are manufactured and market by John J. Jovino and Co. of New York and bear only the Colt name. The (revolvers) are being produced and sold through a special licensing agrement which was negotiated prior to the current management. CMCI (Colt's Manufacturing Co., Inc.) asumes no responsibility for product quality, workmanship, or liability." Perhaps the correct terminology for the so called Third Generation or "Signature Series" of percussion revolvers should be "Colt Brevets." Their production is not unlike those percussion revolvers produced in foriegn lands during the middle nineteenth century unsder a licensing agreement with Colt's."

I don't know of any reversal of that opinion by Colt's

[sundance44s]

Here`s a good read about ...Colt , Uberti ..and Iver Johnson on these Colts ..
http://gunsandammomag.com/cs/Satelli...l+Resurrection

[pohill]

In Adler's book, he says: "Colt Blackpowder Arms Company, in Brooklyn, New York was organized in 1993 by the original manufacturers of the 2nd Generation Colt pistols, Louis and Anthony Imperato. A year later, the 3rd Generation Colt Blackpowder Signature Series was introduced."

So, the confusion is a marketing tool used by the guys who originally made the 2nd Generation Colts. I can live with that. I have two really nice, well-made 3rd Generation Colts, and I never wanted a letter for them. I almost bought a 2nd Generation 1851 .36 recently but I just gotta stop buying guns.

[Fingers McGee]

So, the confusion is a marketing tool used by the guys who originally made the 2nd Generation Colts. I can live with that. I have two really nice, well-made 3rd Generation Colts, and I never wanted a letter for them. I almost bought a 2nd Generation 1851 .36 recently but I just gotta stop buying guns.

Agreed. I've always admired the look of the Sig Series guns. Highly polished, bright blue, and great case colors. Just never thought they were 'Authentic' enough with the Sam Colt on the back strap. I just got a fluted cylinder 2nd Gen 1860 Army for my collection. Stop buying guns I dont think I could survive.

I don't own and have never tried a Sig Series revolver, so can't comment on their performance. I own a number of 2nd Gens, and use a pair of 1861 Navies for my SASS main match guns. Just finished a 12 stage match this past weekend with one pistol miss (my fault) and the Navies running flawlessly. Shot six stages Sat and 6 on Sun with the only maintenance being wiping the outside and cylinder face off, and wiping the fouling off of the hammers after the first six stages.

[Oquirrh]

In Adler's book, he says: "Colt Blackpowder Arms Company, in Brooklyn, New York was organized in 1993 by the original manufacturers of the 2nd Generation Colt pistols, Louis and Anthony Imperato. A year later, the 3rd Generation Colt Blackpowder Signature Series was introduced."

These are the guys who own Henry Repeating Arms in Brooklyn.

[pohill]

These are the two Signature Series 1861 .36 I have. I shoot the white handled one and feel guilty whenever I do it - it's kinda purty. The fit and finish is great, and it shoots flawlessly - never a cap jam, never a misfire, and accurate as heck. I haven't shot the other one simply because it's unfired, in a case, with all the goodies.
I have an original Whitney and a Savage & North that I've shot a few times each, but, again, I feel guilty because they're a piece of history. That leaves me with a dozen or so Piettas and Ubertis, and a Ruger Old Army. I rotate them like a batting line-up.

[Fingers McGee]

Great pics Pohill. Love the looks of the Custer '61. Would like to have one of them myself - but I'd be sorely tempted to shoot it.

[Smokin_Gun]

Perhaps the correct terminology for the so called Third Generation or "Signature Series" of percussion revolvers should be "Colt Brevets."

Fingers Mcgee, PERHAPs you and they are Mistaken...Perhaps you should read what is placed in front of you, perhaps you replace the word Prejudice with Perhaps, you think you are correct...check it out, see the search button...search and the truth will set you free.
Even though you have been given the correct info from at least 5 other enthuseists.

Smokin' Gun

...and I ain't even that crazy about all the Colts that have all been discontinued they call it in the industry End of Production, 1st, 2nd & yes, 3rd generation Colts.
Buy a Rem and go shootin' you'll wear them Colts out breathin' on and polishin' um

[Fingers McGee]

Fingers Mcgee, PERHAPs you and they are Mistaken...Perhaps you should read what is placed in front of you, perhaps you replace the word Prejudice with Perhaps, you think you are correct...check it out, see the search button...search and the truth will set you free.
Even though you have been given the correct info from at least 5 other enthuseists.

Excuse me Smokin Gun??? When did I kick your dog? I was asked for a source for the comment that Colt's did not recognize the Sig Series. I provided that source - with a direct quote from a Colt's representative - and agreed with Pohill's later statement. One man's correct is anothers opinion or - in your words - prejudice. I have the same resources - books - that the other enthusiasts have. In each instance, they are the result of the author's opinion.

[karwelis]

well i have a sig series 3rd model dragoon, and WOW! what a shooter! its the most bitchen pistol to shoot, it'll never be a wall hanger!

[Mk VII]

I've got a Signature Series 1851 Navy Squareback, and all too many bits have broken/dropped off it. I've now got to try to fix it again.

[olmontanaboy]

Here`s a good read about ...Colt , Uberti ..and Iver Johnson on these Colts ..
http://gunsandammomag.com/cs/Satelli...l+Resurrection

Thanks for posting that, very informative

[olmontanaboy]

Here's an write up with some nice photos: http://store.bluebookinc.com/Info/PD...fColtBlack.pdf

[madcratebuilder]

What about the 3rd gens that have lettered? I have documentation that came with a 3rd gen that states Colt well letter them. I just don't feel the need for a three hundred dollar letter.

[Fingers McGee]

I thought this thread had died.

[madcratebuilder]

RIP

[CaptainCrossman]

I know Uberti did.
But a guy offered me a Walker at a tantalizing price, but he doesn't know the manufacturer. He says it's "old even for a replica" and doesn't seem to be marked.
He lives too far away for me to drop by to look over for proof markings (unless I have a pretty good idea I'm going to buy it.)
In short, were any of the reproduction Walkers real losers?Second, do you Walker owners actually shoot your Walkers, get decent accuracy and enjoy them? I'd hate to buy something that's going to gather dust.

good question. I had an ASM Walker, it indexed and shot great. The 60 grain powder capacity was awesome...and it was very accurate...BUT...

historically the Italian replicas have cast steel frames that are case hardened, and in 6 shots it peened the wedge and was slightly but noticeably a little loose. Also it is heavy to carry, and aim.


If you really want to "enjoy" a Walker, which means shooting it with full loads of powder like a battleship broadside (no other sane, smart reason to own one IMHO), try to find a vintage STAINLESS STEEL Walker, like this one

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=129690370



or, buy a forged steel frame Walker from Uberti, like this one

http://possibleshop.com/pistol-uberti.html


the soft steel/case hardened Walkers otherwise will shoot loose in a hurry, I sold mine, because a replacement wedge is $45 and I didn't feel like spending the money. A local fella offered $65 more than I paid for it, so away it went. Had I kept it, I would have had a stainless wedge made for it. Any of the Colt open tops are only as good as their weakest part, in this case the wedge.

the guy is giving you a tantalizing price, because he's most likely upgrading to a stainless or forged frame gun. 60 grains is a lot of powder to put holes in paper targets with- the best all around cap/ball pistol, the one that should be the cornerstone of any blackpowder shooter, should be the Remington 1858. Strong topstrap, good price, 42 grain powder capacity. If you're bucks up, you'd be well served with a Ruger Old Army.