Flaashlight as a defensive tool (don't laugh)

Glock40 · November 10, 2002, 05:59 PM

With some of the ultra high intensity flashlights companies like Surefire are coming out with, how viable is a flashlight for defensive purposes?

I am told the $300 mega lights blind people. You can't assault what you can't see. But, how soon until your vision comes back?

No flames please. I just am curious what role a mega light could play if you had no CCW.

Shmackey · November 10, 2002, 08:07 PM

It's pretty accepted that the light isn't the part you'd use. A long, hefty, sturdy flashlight can be used for striking and holding with good effectiveness.

vertigo7 · November 10, 2002, 08:15 PM

I'm confident my 4D-cell Mag-Light would make a really good skull-thumper / knee-breaker if I were forced into close proximity to a hostile BG.

Glock40 · November 10, 2002, 08:27 PM

I am not talking about it as a striking weapon. I am talking about the M6 Millinium type.

http://www.surefire.com/cgi-bin/main...,0&carfnbr=242

The web states "Self-defense tool, bright enough to temporarily blind an opponent" It claims to produce 500 lumins of output.

vertigo7 · November 10, 2002, 08:37 PM

IMO, a few seconds of blinding effect, maybe. It depends a lot on the situation and distance between BG and light, etc.

Just my $0.02.

Erich · November 10, 2002, 10:04 PM

I'm pretty skeptical about claims that these lights will "stun" a hostile dude. I guess it's easy to test for feasibility: go to a store that sells them, ask permission, lock yourself in the can with the lights off until your pupils dilate, and then shoot yourself in the face with it. Feel stunned? How 'bout imagining if you were hyped up on PCP? Think you'd feel stunned?

Like vertigo7 says, I think it's going to depend a lot on conditions. I sure can't imagine relying on this purported stun effect as my primary means of defending myself.

WR Olsen · November 10, 2002, 10:32 PM

I'm not sure how effecftive light can be as a defencsive weapon, but there are rumors that several killings in Fussia were accomplished by the Russian Mafia using large handlights ( one megawatt or greater) to dazzle a driver and cause him to run off the road.

[email protected] · November 10, 2002, 11:22 PM

Erick nailed it. The light isn't the *one* tool in your box - it's used to make the others work better.

The 1-3 or more seconds that you've blinded the bad guy is time you can use to dominate the area, exit a fatal funnel, etc. It gives you more options.

Now, if you want to talk about "light as a weapon", well, unless you are talking about baseball bats (oops, I mean MagLites) or a TID equipped SureFire, it's a matter of using the right tool for the job. You don't use your AR for hammering nails, so why would use use a light as a bludgeon?

SureFire as a yawara stick, sure, I can see that. But a Maglite as a baton? Great, so you've got one item that does two jobs, neither of which it does well.

Kevin

ThePatriot29 · November 11, 2002, 02:33 AM

WR Olsen wrote:

Quote:

I'm not sure how effecftive light can be as a defencsive weapon, but there are rumors that several killings in Fussia were accomplished by the Russian Mafia using large handlights ( one megawatt or greater) to dazzle a driver and cause him to run off the road.

In one of Tom Clancy's books, I believe it was Debt of Honor, they used a several megawatt light to blind the pilots of large airplanes, part of Japan's early warning radar system, causing them to crash.

Double Naught Spy · November 11, 2002, 11:48 AM

I like the story Clint Smith at Thunder Ranch tells about taking some LEO guys through the Terminator (a shoot house) at night in Defensive Handgun III where all the participants were using simunitions. The cop comes upon Pete. Pete is the guy at TR responsible for all of the range physical plant sort of upkeep but also does double duty as a bad guy for classes like the DHIII. The cop locates Pete and immediately blinds him with his mega powerful Surefire night sun tactical ninja light (Clint Smith's description, not mine). While this is happening, the cop is giving orders to Pete who he sees is suffering from the light and has raised his hand to shield his eyes. Keep in mind, this is all happening fairly quickly in just a matter of a few seconds. The cop is thinking that Pete is capitulating. In the instant Pete has shielded his eyes from the glare, he is now able to see the cop just fine from all of the reflected light. Pete's raised hand was apparently enough of a visual distraction that the cop never saw Pete shooting him until after he was shot 3 times in the chest. Since it was simunitions, nobody was actually hurt, except maybe the cop's ego. So much for the light beam being a "weapon."

The lesson from all this is simple. A light is a tool, but don't count on it as a weapon based on the amount of light it projects. The supposed blinding effects can be very quickly defeated as simply as by shielding one's eyes with one hand. While you are blinding a person, don't count on the light as providing you cover. It doesn't. At best is provides poor concealment where the person being blinded can't quite tell where you are behind the light but knows you are close by (within arm's reach).

You know, if you use a light and somebody gives up or stops fighting because of the light, that is great. HOWEVER, under NO circumstances should you ever deploy a beam of light from a handheld or weapon mounted light and expect it to perform as a weapon. The weapon is easily defeated. It is not a good weapon and it certainly will do nothing to stop the person from shooting if they want to shoot at you. They may not be able to see anything but the light, but by golly you are going to be somewhere near that light and in very short order and with never seeing you, the bad guy can shoot you because he knows you are close to the light if not just directly behind it.

AAshooter · November 11, 2002, 01:44 PM

-just a word of caution to all those inspired to go buy the mega-lumen light. In an enclosed area like your home, it is likely to leave yourself blinded as well.

You can imagine waking up in the dead of night and using one of those. The first time you turn it on, you will probably be unable to see anything for a while due to the light reflected back off the walls. --just think what a 60 watt bathroom light is like in the dead of night on a dark night after you have been sleeping.

They are probably more suited for outside work.

Litlman · November 11, 2002, 02:01 PM

I have seen a lg. d cell mag light used to lump someone pretty good. Easy to carry in the vehicles totally leagal.

Litlman...........................

foghornl · November 11, 2002, 03:00 PM

A 4 or 5 D-Cell Mag-Lite doubles fairly well as a whoop-a$$ light...Have tested this theory, almost 30 years back...

Good Guy Vertical
Bad Guy Horizontal

Glock40 · November 11, 2002, 05:52 PM

Thanks to all. Especially Double Naught. The super flashlight is out of consideration. I am convinced.

November 10, 2002, 05:59 PM	#1
Glock40 Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2002 Posts: 111	Flaashlight as a defensive tool (don't laugh) With some of the ultra high intensity flashlights companies like Surefire are coming out with, how viable is a flashlight for defensive purposes? I am told the $300 mega lights blind people. You can't assault what you can't see. But, how soon until your vision comes back? No flames please. I just am curious what role a mega light could play if you had no CCW.

November 10, 2002, 08:07 PM	#2
Shmackey Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2001 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 1,117	It's pretty accepted that the light isn't the part you'd use. A long, hefty, sturdy flashlight can be used for striking and holding with good effectiveness. __________________ "Kid, watch out for the 'conservative' who decries big government and then tells you what you can put in your body, when you should pray, and where you can put your johnson. And kid, follow the money."

November 10, 2002, 11:22 PM	#8
[email protected] Wise Guy Join Date: October 10, 1998 Posts: 665	Erick nailed it. The light isn't the one tool in your box - it's used to make the others work better. The 1-3 or more seconds that you've blinded the bad guy is time you can use to dominate the area, exit a fatal funnel, etc. It gives you more options. Now, if you want to talk about "light as a weapon", well, unless you are talking about baseball bats (oops, I mean MagLites) or a TID equipped SureFire, it's a matter of using the right tool for the job. You don't use your AR for hammering nails, so why would use use a light as a bludgeon? SureFire as a yawara stick, sure, I can see that. But a Maglite as a baton? Great, so you've got one item that does two jobs, neither of which it does well. Kevin __________________ Kevin Jon Schlossberg Owner, BladeForums.com www.bladeforums.com

November 11, 2002, 11:48 AM	#10
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	I like the story Clint Smith at Thunder Ranch tells about taking some LEO guys through the Terminator (a shoot house) at night in Defensive Handgun III where all the participants were using simunitions. The cop comes upon Pete. Pete is the guy at TR responsible for all of the range physical plant sort of upkeep but also does double duty as a bad guy for classes like the DHIII. The cop locates Pete and immediately blinds him with his mega powerful Surefire night sun tactical ninja light (Clint Smith's description, not mine). While this is happening, the cop is giving orders to Pete who he sees is suffering from the light and has raised his hand to shield his eyes. Keep in mind, this is all happening fairly quickly in just a matter of a few seconds. The cop is thinking that Pete is capitulating. In the instant Pete has shielded his eyes from the glare, he is now able to see the cop just fine from all of the reflected light. Pete's raised hand was apparently enough of a visual distraction that the cop never saw Pete shooting him until after he was shot 3 times in the chest. Since it was simunitions, nobody was actually hurt, except maybe the cop's ego. So much for the light beam being a "weapon." The lesson from all this is simple. A light is a tool, but don't count on it as a weapon based on the amount of light it projects. The supposed blinding effects can be very quickly defeated as simply as by shielding one's eyes with one hand. While you are blinding a person, don't count on the light as providing you cover. It doesn't. At best is provides poor concealment where the person being blinded can't quite tell where you are behind the light but knows you are close by (within arm's reach). You know, if you use a light and somebody gives up or stops fighting because of the light, that is great. HOWEVER, under NO circumstances should you ever deploy a beam of light from a handheld or weapon mounted light and expect it to perform as a weapon. The weapon is easily defeated. It is not a good weapon and it certainly will do nothing to stop the person from shooting if they want to shoot at you. They may not be able to see anything but the light, but by golly you are going to be somewhere near that light and in very short order and with never seeing you, the bad guy can shoot you because he knows you are close to the light if not just directly behind it. __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

November 11, 2002, 01:44 PM	#11
AAshooter Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2001 Posts: 379	-just a word of caution to all those inspired to go buy the mega-lumen light. In an enclosed area like your home, it is likely to leave yourself blinded as well. You can imagine waking up in the dead of night and using one of those. The first time you turn it on, you will probably be unable to see anything for a while due to the light reflected back off the walls. --just think what a 60 watt bathroom light is like in the dead of night on a dark night after you have been sleeping. They are probably more suited for outside work. __________________ Play hard, shoot often, leave well worn guns!

November 10, 2002, 08:27 PM	#4
Glock40 Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2002 Posts: 111	I am not talking about it as a striking weapon. I am talking about the M6 Millinium type. http://www.surefire.com/cgi-bin/main...,0&carfnbr=242 The web states "Self-defense tool, bright enough to temporarily blind an opponent" It claims to produce 500 lumins of output.

November 10, 2002, 10:04 PM	#6
Erich Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 1999 Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA Posts: 2,543	I'm pretty skeptical about claims that these lights will "stun" a hostile dude. I guess it's easy to test for feasibility: go to a store that sells them, ask permission, lock yourself in the can with the lights off until your pupils dilate, and then shoot yourself in the face with it. Feel stunned? How 'bout imagining if you were hyped up on PCP? Think you'd feel stunned? Like vertigo7 says, I think it's going to depend a lot on conditions. I sure can't imagine relying on this purported stun effect as my primary means of defending myself.

November 10, 2002, 10:32 PM	#7
WR Olsen Member Join Date: August 8, 2000 Location: WA Posts: 23	I'm not sure how effecftive light can be as a defencsive weapon, but there are rumors that several killings in Fussia were accomplished by the Russian Mafia using large handlights ( one megawatt or greater) to dazzle a driver and cause him to run off the road.

November 11, 2002, 02:01 PM	#12
Litlman Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2002 Location: Pa. Posts: 144	I have seen a lg. d cell mag light used to lump someone pretty good. Easy to carry in the vehicles totally leagal. Litlman...........................

November 11, 2002, 03:00 PM	#13
foghornl Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,354	A 4 or 5 D-Cell Mag-Lite doubles fairly well as a whoop-a$$ light...Have tested this theory, almost 30 years back... Good Guy Vertical Bad Guy Horizontal __________________ Load your weapons and 'Stand Ready'. It will be a bumpy ride.

November 11, 2002, 05:52 PM	#14
Glock40 Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2002 Posts: 111	Thanks to all. Especially Double Naught. The super flashlight is out of consideration. I am convinced.