Can anyone help identify this casing?

dave_g17 · July 18, 2011, 11:08 AM

Can anyone identify this casing?

I measured everything with calipers.

The case length is about 38.33mm (1.5in)

The base diameter is about 15.78mm (0.62in)

The neck is slightly deformed, but I used the circumference to find the neck diameter, and it's about 10.8mm (0.425in)

The bullet itself was already shot, and I suspect the cartridge to be at the very least 60 years old, but probably closer to 110-160 years old.

The base has the letter "C" on it, and it clearly has 2 firing pin marks, at exactly 180 degrees from each other.

Here are some images to help you out.

I think it's a really rare casing because I haven't been able to find any/much info on it. I suspect it to be a .44 caliber round for the Civil War Era Winchester Model 1866 carbine. Here's an old ad for it too. (http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...1265/7-8-7.jpg)

If you need more info, I can post more.

jimbob86 · July 18, 2011, 11:15 AM

Neck diameter is about right for .38-40 ......

You sure those marks an the rim are from firing pins?

The circle in the middle of the case sez "not rimfire" to me.....

dave_g17 · July 18, 2011, 11:27 AM

Thanks for the feedback.

But I'm 100% positive this is a rimfire. I'm 99.99999% sure that it has dual firing pins. It has nothing other than the imprinted "C" in that circle on the base.

The marks from the firing pins are at exactly 180 degrees from each other, eliminating the possibility of it being a misfire that was reloaded and tried again.

When I noticed this, I had never heard of dual firing pins, but after a little research, I found that a few older, larger caliber rimfires had them.

Jim Watson · July 18, 2011, 12:03 PM

Not rare at all, not a .44 Henry.
You show a 10.4x38 Swiss Vetterli, dimensions correct within reasonable limits of 19th century manufacture and weathering.
There are numerous internet entries and advertisements of rifles for sale.
So do a search.

dave_g17 · July 18, 2011, 12:10 PM

Thanks very much guys!

I actually just found out from another website, and they gave me photos and a few links.

If anyone's interested, here they are:

Example of cartridge box: http://www.rtgammo.com/41swiss9404.jpg
Actual cartridges: http://test.auctionarms.com/closed/d...emnum=10223770
The rifle and its history: http://www.swissrifles.com/vetterli/article/
History of the cartridge: http://www.swissrifles.com/ammo/
The headstamp ("C" in a circle means it was produced by Caverhill & Learmont, in Quebec): http://theswissriflesdotcommessagebo...dge#reply-9943,
http://members.shaw.ca/cartridge-corner/usrim.htm
Forked firing pin: http://www.swissrifles.com/vetterli/

My help came from http://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comment...let_cartridge/

Once again, thanks guys!

gyvel · July 20, 2011, 10:18 AM

I agree with Jim Watson. .41 Swiss Vetterli rimfire.

July 18, 2011, 11:15 AM	#2
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	Not an expert, but ..... Neck diameter is about right for .38-40 ...... You sure those marks an the rim are from firing pins? The circle in the middle of the case sez "not rimfire" to me.....

July 18, 2011, 11:27 AM	#3
dave_g17 Junior Member Join Date: July 18, 2011 Posts: 3	Thanks for the feedback. But I'm 100% positive this is a rimfire. I'm 99.99999% sure that it has dual firing pins. It has nothing other than the imprinted "C" in that circle on the base. The marks from the firing pins are at exactly 180 degrees from each other, eliminating the possibility of it being a misfire that was reloaded and tried again. When I noticed this, I had never heard of dual firing pins, but after a little research, I found that a few older, larger caliber rimfires had them.

July 18, 2011, 12:03 PM	#4
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	Not rare at all, not a .44 Henry. You show a 10.4x38 Swiss Vetterli, dimensions correct within reasonable limits of 19th century manufacture and weathering. There are numerous internet entries and advertisements of rifles for sale. So do a search.

July 18, 2011, 12:10 PM	#5
dave_g17 Junior Member Join Date: July 18, 2011 Posts: 3	Thanks very much guys! I actually just found out from another website, and they gave me photos and a few links. If anyone's interested, here they are: Example of cartridge box: http://www.rtgammo.com/41swiss9404.jpg Actual cartridges: http://test.auctionarms.com/closed/d...emnum=10223770 The rifle and its history: http://www.swissrifles.com/vetterli/article/ History of the cartridge: http://www.swissrifles.com/ammo/ The headstamp ("C" in a circle means it was produced by Caverhill & Learmont, in Quebec): http://theswissriflesdotcommessagebo...dge#reply-9943, http://members.shaw.ca/cartridge-corner/usrim.htm Forked firing pin: http://www.swissrifles.com/vetterli/ My help came from http://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comment...let_cartridge/ Once again, thanks guys!

July 20, 2011, 10:18 AM	#6
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	I agree with Jim Watson. .41 Swiss Vetterli rimfire.