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Old February 2, 2018, 10:13 AM   #1
Drae
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Homemades.

Nowhere in this forum i can find anything on homemade guns. Is this illegal/restricted in America, or it's just some sort of taboo?
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Old February 2, 2018, 11:35 AM   #2
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Completely legal but you can't sell 'em w/o the proper licensing and the gun is subject to all the prohibited persons restrictions. Hence the rise of the 80% lowers industry and the eventuality of usable 3D printed firearms.
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Old February 2, 2018, 11:53 AM   #3
Oliver Sudden
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Yep we make them, here's one I made last year.
IMG_0197 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr
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Old February 3, 2018, 01:49 AM   #4
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Unless you are making something fairly crude, it's probably going to take a lot of expensive machinery, tooling, and training/experience.

The other part is that it's usually cheaper just to just buy the completed firearm/receiver.

I figure a significant portion of the 80% crowd probably wants to keep their "off the books" firearms off the internet as well.
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Old February 3, 2018, 06:10 AM   #5
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I'm not a lawyer or legal expert.This is my understanding,which could be wrong.
In the USA,there are some restricted "firearms" as defined by Federal law that are restricted .Full auto for example.
Filling out the proper paperwork and paying for the tax stamp,in some cases,permits you to own some of these weapons,but manufacturing them,even just one,is banned.Its not OK to make a full auto Sten gun.Or even a similar open bolt semi-auto.

Now,in the latter part of the Obama administration,a document was signed by the President (IIRC) that changed ITAR regulations.It somehow lumped the basic gunsmith in with exporters of weapons ,with expensive permit requirements and extensive record keeping.

I'm not sure how much that impacts the home hobby machinist. Considering this regulation,I'm not sure what I thought I knew about being able to make a gun is still true.

The way it was,if I have it right,I could make one prototype of any sort of firearm that would typically be lawful to buy or possess.
If I had the skills and tools,making something like a 1911 or a bolt action 50 cal would be lawful.I don't think I could sell it,unless maybe if I registered a serial number .I'm not real sure about that.
To make more than one,it gets more complicated.There was a form of license that allowed custom gunsmiths to make a limited number of firearms a year.Example might be a custom Sharps or Ballard rifle.I don't know if its still allowed or if the quantity was five or fifty,
To make more requires a manufacturers license.
And,all sporting goods,including guns and ammo,has a tax of ...I think its 15% ,that must be paid to the federal government.And,you don't want to forget to pay.Pittman-Robertson tax,maybe?

So,the short answer,to the best of my knowledge,the hobbyist can make one copy of an otherwise lawful firearm that (I think) cannot be sold....but the ITAR regulation makes that not so clear to me.

The last I heard,for a professional gunsmith to perform a machining operation that improved a rifle required ITAR compliance.This might be drilling and tapping for sights,threading a barrel for a muzzle device,or threading and chambering a barrel.
Its a vague,muddy regulation no one is very clear on.Those are the kind that can bite you.

Oliver: Very nice looking work!! I'm impressed.
Muzzle loaders are lawful to make,if you can lawfully own one.

Last edited by HiBC; February 3, 2018 at 06:28 AM.
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Old February 3, 2018, 06:57 AM   #6
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.__.

I was more of thinking about making these:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/...26_306x154.jpg

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/w...2008/12/11.jpg

And similar things.
For the shizzles and giggles and target shooting and stuff. It's cheaper than buying a pistol for sure, and if well made it's both pretty and unique.
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Old February 3, 2018, 10:36 AM   #7
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Something like this?

www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Zip-Gun
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Old February 3, 2018, 12:19 PM   #8
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Drae:

Pic one,Idon't know that particular gun,it does have a machine gun look to me.I don't know Polish law,but USA would prohibit building one.

Pic 2, Once again,USA law,it might look innocent,at first glance.However,It appears to have a provision for a detachable stock.That is a problem in USA.It might be OK if you did not possess a stockfor it,but I'd clarify that first.There is another problem.It appears to have a central shotgun barrel,LeMat style.

Its possible a blackpowder muzzle loader would be exempt,but generally a smoothbore handgun is considered a short barreled shotgun and a shotgun of insufficient overall length.It might be possible to fill out paperwork and pay tax to legally build one,but that would require some research.My default answer would be No,can't make that one.

You could make a conventional revolver or pistol,if State law permits it.
You could make a 50 browning MG bolt or semi-auto rifle.

But these laws change without much announcement,and I suggest no one put your freedom in jeopardy by building firearms based on internet forum advice from someone who is not a good enough lawyer to to defend you in court.
The laws are murky and penalty is often a felony.Do current,careful research.
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Old February 3, 2018, 12:27 PM   #9
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'a smoothbore handgun is considered a short barreled shotgun and a shotgun of insu-
argh, american gun laws are so silly...
First one indeed is a machine gun, of Chechen origin as is the pistol under it. It's a complex gun with reliablity issues, especially one made at home.
What's so bad about detachable stocks if the gun seems to be something you'd have to reload after every shot? Also i can duct-tape or hot-glue a piece of wood to the back end of my CZ75B and call it a detachable stock, it doesn't really make it much more dangerous. In my opinion pistols with stocks are pretty weird.

Back to the topic before it becomes a debate on gun laws... again. I couldn't find, after going through anything gun related in our laws, anything about homemades so i assume the rules for normal guns apply. Sooo... time to make a revolver out of 4140 pipes, birch wood, and hot glue.

EDIT: Who without required permission produces firearms or ammunition and trades it (sells/swaps), is to be punished by up to 10 years of prison. Article 263 paragraph 1
I guess i have to ask some higher instance if i can make guns for own use. Still, 4140 pipes, birch wood, and hot glue are to be used sometime soon.
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Old February 3, 2018, 12:58 PM   #10
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Since you need a Psychological exams, medical exams and specific licenses for hunting,sport, self-defence, collecting, I'm I missing any? And each of your firearms is registered per your license. Each license having a specific type and number of firearms you are permitted to own by your overseers. I'm wondering where a "Homemade" firearm fits into that gun control scheme? could you explain please. Another question I have, wouldn't you need to have your "homemade" gun proofed?
Or, are you trying to circumvent your Counties gun control laws. If you are I'd advise against it. People can get serious jail time in Poland just for speech deemed "hateful". I shutter to think about the penalties for possessing deadly machinery such as zip guns.
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Old February 3, 2018, 01:37 PM   #11
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'People can get serious jail time in Poland just for speech deemed "hateful".'

Jeez, dude, it's not the days of Stalin's rule anymore, chill. The laws are way more lax than people outside think, you just need to know how to read them.

So, if i'll get some sort of allowance for homemades, maybe get gunsmith papers or whatever...someday hopefully... what kind of homemade would be the first thing to do, outside of something like a break action?
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Old February 3, 2018, 05:18 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drae View Post
'People can get serious jail time in Poland just for speech deemed "hateful".'

Jeez, dude, it's not the days of Stalin's rule anymore, chill. The laws are way more lax than people outside think, you just need to know how to read them.

So, if i'll get some sort of allowance for homemades, maybe get gunsmith papers or whatever...someday hopefully... what kind of homemade would be the first thing to do, outside of something like a break action?
I'm sorry, I must misunderstand your laws, sometimes I'm careless like that...LoL. I was just going off this I happened to read yesterday.
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ee-speech-nazi
Which got me curious as to how draconian your "hate" speech laws are in Poland since we have no such thing here in Murica it seems to be a silly concept. I found this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_s...laws_in_Poland

Anywayz, back to guns.. Why not build a blackpowder cannon. A small one would be fun, a really big one would be better!! Think about how funny it will be to explain to whomever gives you permission that it's for hunting!!
Hey, you never answered if you have proofing laws or not.
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Old February 3, 2018, 06:20 PM   #13
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I'll just leave this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0TryRzGdUU

Man in Poland has built (and fired) the world's largest black powder revolver. It's a mega-copy of a Remington 1858, one of the finest black powder revolvers ever made. The ammo looks like small cannon balls.

Last edited by Aguila Blanca; February 3, 2018 at 06:51 PM.
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Old February 3, 2018, 06:36 PM   #14
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Hey, don't let us rain on your parade!

I believe you know your laws much better than we do and if you won't get into any trouble over there go for it!

Quote:
Sooo... time to make a revolver out of 4140 pipes, birch wood, and hot glue.
Keep us informed...you know, how progress on construction is going, range reports, what emergency medical facilities are like in Poland...(just kidding).
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Old February 3, 2018, 06:50 PM   #15
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Oh, and just so you don't think creativity has died in the US, here a couple of folk thinking outside the box as far as firearms go...

"12GA Rifle From Heck"
https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...highlight=hell

And something from member Jim March:
They LAUGHED when he slid a magazine into his revolver but I bet they aren't laughing NOW...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4XtVldNbO4
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Old February 3, 2018, 08:11 PM   #16
blackwidowp61
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OK, here's a couple more you could build.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVpqSVS__mM

http://www.advancedspuds.com/gunplans.htm

http://www.popsci.com/gadgets/articl...kins-3700-feet

From one end of the spectrum to the other. Have fun!
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Last edited by blackwidowp61; February 3, 2018 at 08:21 PM.
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Old February 4, 2018, 06:34 AM   #17
Drae
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@DaleA 4140 steel is actually good for gun barrels, at least that's what countless internet sources say. Birch wood... i have a ton of that so why not use it. Hot glue was a joke, i'll presumably weld, rivet and screw things together. For ammo first thing that came to mind is somesort of .22, at least it won't hurt THAT bad if it breaks.
@blackwidowp61 spud guns no thanks, artillery is a bad idea too.
@WarPig1976 proofing laws?
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Old February 4, 2018, 12:18 PM   #18
WarPig1976
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca View Post
I'll just leave this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0TryRzGdUU

Man in Poland has built (and fired) the world's largest black powder revolver. It's a mega-copy of a Remington 1858, one of the finest black powder revolvers ever made. The ammo looks like small cannon balls.
Wow, that's crazy. Some latent Cowboy fantasies going on there. Somebody tell that guy to buy a Stetson and some chew to complete the outfit!!


Yes, Proofing, the testing of pressure bearing parts. Some Countries have laws that mandate testing.
It seems you're naive when it comes to firearms. Are you sure you are at a point where building your own would be advisable?
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Old February 4, 2018, 12:35 PM   #19
Drae
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Naive? That sounded rude... ;-; The fact i don't treat firearms and related things like stuff that can break or explode when incorrectly touched makes me naive? Or the fact that i treat them like devices made to propel a projectile forward, not devices made to injure/kill?

Last edited by Drae; February 4, 2018 at 01:03 PM.
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Old February 4, 2018, 01:43 PM   #20
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Depends on you define "homemade". I see lots of references to people "building" AR15s, I would distinguish between "assembling" and "makiing" that requires machining.
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Old February 4, 2018, 01:48 PM   #21
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Building an AR15 is making something out of premade parts. That's not making a homemade. Check my 2nd post.
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Old February 4, 2018, 02:14 PM   #22
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A gentleman named Frank De Haas wrote some books about the old single shot rifles. Then he wrote one about building them. At Brownell's gunsmith supply site is (I think) a book "The Home Machinist...something"

You will find your own way. My first rifles were blackpowder muzzle loaders. Fun to build and shoot. Building the lock from a Siler kit was an interesting project. The "Track of the Wolf" catalogue is a USA source. An old but functional shotgun hammer lock can be used.
Its great experience.Fitting wood to steel,shaping,finishing,etc.

Modifying mil-surp rifles to sporting rifles has fallen out of favor,but it can still be an education.It does not make economic sense,but I am glad I built the rifles.
One of them was a 1927 Polish 98 pattern rifle made in Warsawa. No,I did not butcher an original.An old man offered me the receiver only for $25.

How easy is it to find a cheap SKS? You might dump the gas system and make that a straight pull. (Or a pump!) But shoot it some,first.Kind of a fun rifle.I had the carbine.It was $79 new in a box,and ammo was $69 a thousand..a while back.

I suggest its less about "the perfect rifle" and more about getting your hands dirty. An education.Skills. Your third or fourth build.They get better.The gun is not the product.You are the product.Skills,workmanship,experience,confidence.

A man name John Bivens wrote a good book on building IIRC,The Pennsylvania Long Rifle. A flintlock is interesting. A bit of lead,some black powder,flint,and you can shoot. Quite accurately.A good thing about a muzzle loader is,that you can get it done. Drill press work if you build a lock kit.A plumber's torch will let you do the mystery of heat treating the frizzen for spark and the sear parts to last.The breech needs threading for a breech plug,but often that's done already when you buy a barrel.Many nice rifles have been built in a back woods cabin with hand tools.One of the Foxfire books has Herschel House building a rifle that way.Great books. Teach you how to build a still and make moonshine,too.

Or find an old rifle,maybe a .22,that needs a little love.Make it fit you.Put on good sights.Restore finish.Shoot!

And as you no doubt have heard a thousand times,"Have fun,be safe!"

I dream a shooting tool,for a purpose.Then I build it.

Last edited by HiBC; February 4, 2018 at 02:31 PM.
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Old February 4, 2018, 02:41 PM   #23
Drae
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SKS? I'm better off getting an AK47 at that rate, way cheaper, same ammo, and doesn't have the ugly glossy finish old russian guns had... hey actually that's not a bad idea at all! (just i hope i won't get hate for using commies guns) Where to get 7,62x39 5-rounders tho... @HiBC although you might have not intended it thanks a lot for the hint! I'm gonna look for a 'kalash'.
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Old February 4, 2018, 06:57 PM   #24
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Pretty much all the info in this thread concerning legality of homemade firearms in the US is incorrect. I'm not a lawyer, so I won't go into the laws for fear one will show up and edit my post or give me an infraction, but I recommend the info here is discounted and more reliable resources obtained.

There are a couple specialty forums for home manufacture of firearms.
http://www.weaponeer.net/

Just google gunsmith forum for more.
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Old February 4, 2018, 07:49 PM   #25
HiBC
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johnwilliamson: I went to your recommended site and browsed a bit...saw nothing regarding your concerns.
I think you could be far more clear and specific without trouble.
Example : First"I'm not a lawyer,etc,but I have the following concerns.The way I read the ITAR letter,it seems...."
Or,whatever is on your mind.I'm open to learning,but I don't know where to start with your advice.
FWIW,I do not have an FFL,or a business. I do not take on gunsmith work.
I make my own things.None are unlawful for me to own.
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