What part of the Nordyke fallout might look like.

Jim March · April 23, 2009, 03:47 PM

This is 15 pages but in double-spaced pleading paper format, so it isn't all THAT long.

http://tinyurl.com/motiontodismiss

Hit "download" when you get there.

No, I'm not a lawyer, but I'm very sure of my ground here.

OuTcAsT · April 23, 2009, 09:26 PM

I am not a Lawyer but, this looks very good to me. When do you plan to "Test" this case?

Jim March · April 23, 2009, 09:43 PM

Just made a two-hour trip into California on other business. No interactions with cops

. But just in case, now you know why the URL was easy to memorize.

I don't visit Kali that often (I'm now in Tucson) but when I do...this could come into play.

NOTE AND WARNING: I used to be a California resident. My favorite carry gun was bought in Cali under the DROS system, therefore it's registered to me, therefore I'm only risking a misdemeanor. If you "illegally" pack a gun not registered to you in Cali, they could charge it as a felony. I strongly recommend NOT risking that. I also recommend not playing this game at all unless you understand the case law and principles behind it stone cold.

BillCA · April 24, 2009, 12:50 AM

Jim,

Interesting motion and pretty good concepts. I just sent you an email with some suggestions and opinions.

raimius · April 24, 2009, 05:53 PM

I'd recommend running past a competant lawyer.
It couldn't hurt your chances.

I don't know exactly how many laws you want to challenge, but wouldn't it be sensible to apply for an out of state CCW license? Yes, I know CA doesn't do this. It could be a way to challenge their CCW laws without violating any law (constitutional or not).

BillCA · April 24, 2009, 07:45 PM

Quote:

...but wouldn't it be sensible to apply for an out of state CCW license? Yes, I know CA doesn't do this. It could be a way to challenge their CCW laws without violating any law (constitutional or not).

Because CA does not have a provision to license non-residents, they can't apply. If you can't apply because you aren't a state resident, then it's much more difficult to raise a discrimination case.

I suspect we'll see some real oddities and uneven treatement with the laws in the next few years as new decisions change the landscape.

raimius · April 27, 2009, 09:47 AM

That's my point. Is it not illegal for California to discriminate based on residency within the US? If the 2nd Amendment is an incorporated, individual right, and CCW licenses are considered part of that (perhaps a risky assumption), how can CA deny someone the ability to carry simply because they don't live there.

(Can anyone summarize the case law for a state's ability to discriminate against non-residents, if I'm missing something?)

ilbob · April 27, 2009, 10:13 AM

Quote:

No, I'm not a lawyer, but I'm very sure of my ground here.

I am not a lawyer but I am betting that well before you get to file your motion to dismiss you are likely to be charged with a felony and have to post a big chunk of money to get out.

The charge might eventually get reduced to a misdemeanor based on the gun having been DROSed previously, but that may well be years down the road.

In the meantime, they will suck the life out of you with extensive legal expenses.

Yellowfin · April 27, 2009, 02:30 PM

Have you tried submitting an application for a non-resident CCW and/or written the AG about it? I don't think courts take someone seriously who hasn't tried to comply with the law first.

BillCA · April 28, 2009, 02:42 AM

As far as I am aware, Yellowfin, there isn't even a provision in the statutes that covers non-resident permits. The statutes say that you must apply for a permit in the city (and/or county) in which you spend a substantial amount of your time -- i.e. where your residence is located or your place of employment. But it makes no provision for a non-Californian to apply for a permit.

If such a process does exist, it's been kept well under wraps by those in charge.

I'm aware of a Nevada resident who, for the last 5 years has held permits from six states which cover approximately 34 states where he's "properly licensed" to carry. Despite those "bona fides", California CLEOs tell him he can't obtain a permit unless he's a resident. Moreover, several officers were nice enough to tell him that his "good cause" had to be very "credible".

maestro pistolero · April 28, 2009, 10:51 AM

Quote:

I'm aware of a Nevada resident who, for the last 5 years has held permits from six states which cover approximately 34 states where he's "properly licensed" to carry.

Sounds like an Alan Gura poster child to me. Does anyone think that the state to state disparity in regulations could eventually play in our favor to get concealed carry, and AWB's reformed/repealed?

April 23, 2009, 03:47 PM	#1
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	What part of the Nordyke fallout might look like. This is 15 pages but in double-spaced pleading paper format, so it isn't all THAT long. http://tinyurl.com/motiontodismiss Hit "download" when you get there. No, I'm not a lawyer, but I'm very sure of my ground here. __________________ Jim March

April 23, 2009, 09:26 PM	#2
OuTcAsT Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2006 Location: Eastern, TN Posts: 1,236	I am not a Lawyer but, this looks very good to me. When do you plan to "Test" this case? __________________ WITHOUT Freedom of Thought, there can be no such Thing as Wisdom; and no such Thing as public Liberty, without Freedom of Speech. Silence Dogood *Does not morality imply the last clear chance?* - WildAlaska -

April 23, 2009, 09:43 PM	#3
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	Just made a two-hour trip into California on other business. No interactions with cops . But just in case, now you know why the URL was easy to memorize. I don't visit Kali that often (I'm now in Tucson) but when I do...this could come into play. NOTE AND WARNING: I used to be a California resident. My favorite carry gun was bought in Cali under the DROS system, therefore it's registered to me, therefore I'm only risking a misdemeanor. If you "illegally" pack a gun not registered to you in Cali, they could charge it as a felony. I strongly recommend NOT risking that. I also recommend not playing this game at all unless you understand the case law and principles behind it stone cold. __________________ Jim March

April 24, 2009, 12:50 AM	#4
BillCA Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, Ca Posts: 7,117	Jim, Interesting motion and pretty good concepts. I just sent you an email with some suggestions and opinions. __________________ BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)

April 27, 2009, 02:30 PM	#9
Yellowfin Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2007 Location: Lancaster Co, PA Posts: 2,311	Have you tried submitting an application for a non-resident CCW and/or written the AG about it? I don't think courts take someone seriously who hasn't tried to comply with the law first. __________________ Students for Concealed Carry on Campus http://www.concealedcampus.org "You can't stop insane people from doing insane things by passing insane laws--that's insane!" - Penn Jillette

April 24, 2009, 05:53 PM	#5
raimius Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2008 Posts: 2,199	I'd recommend running past a competant lawyer. It couldn't hurt your chances. I don't know exactly how many laws you want to challenge, but wouldn't it be sensible to apply for an out of state CCW license? Yes, I know CA doesn't do this. It could be a way to challenge their CCW laws without violating any law (constitutional or not).

April 27, 2009, 09:47 AM	#7
raimius Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2008 Posts: 2,199	That's my point. Is it not illegal for California to discriminate based on residency within the US? If the 2nd Amendment is an incorporated, individual right, and CCW licenses are considered part of that (perhaps a risky assumption), how can CA deny someone the ability to carry simply because they don't live there. (Can anyone summarize the case law for a state's ability to discriminate against non-residents, if I'm missing something?)

April 28, 2009, 02:42 AM	#10
BillCA Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, Ca Posts: 7,117	As far as I am aware, Yellowfin, there isn't even a provision in the statutes that covers non-resident permits. The statutes say that you must apply for a permit in the city (and/or county) in which you spend a substantial amount of your time -- i.e. where your residence is located or your place of employment. But it makes no provision for a non-Californian to apply for a permit. If such a process does exist, it's been kept well under wraps by those in charge. I'm aware of a Nevada resident who, for the last 5 years has held permits from six states which cover approximately 34 states where he's "properly licensed" to carry. Despite those "bona fides", California CLEOs tell him he can't obtain a permit unless he's a resident. Moreover, several officers were nice enough to tell him that his "good cause" had to be very "credible". __________________ BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)

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