I hope this place is not 'murican-only...

[HiBC]

Drae: Thank you for correcting me. I appreciate dangerous women! Once again,welcome. Now,if youwill excuse me;

I'm not offended by the above. Your careless statement about school shootings is another matter though. School shootings and violence in our country have little to with our gun laws. It has nothing to do with the superiority of Polish gun laws or the carelessness of the American people. If you want to discuss that, I suggest you find another place to do it.

I find school shootings deeply troubling. I feel them in my heart and in my guts.I retired after working 10 years as a school custodian (after my machine work went to China)

I grew up with DCM and Jr NRA small bore programs available everywhere.I used to shoot at the YMCA indoor range in Aurora,Illinois,as a 6th grade kid with no father around. There was an Old Man there who would stay as long as I would,sometimes late. I'm grateful. He was a mentor.
There was an AR-15 in the house in 1965
At that time we could still buy about anything through mail order,cheap.
The Service Armament Co would sell you a Lahti or Solothurn anti-tank rifle or a 60 mm mortar.
We still had full Freedom.

But then JFK was assassinated. And RFK,and MLK. I might agree that our gun laws have very little effect on preventing crime,but strongly disagree with you if you think crime has had little effect on gun laws.The political assassinations of the 60's brought the GCA of 1968....and actually mobster violence brought us the FFA of 1934.

Every one of the mass shootings,particularly school shootings,brings up tremendous emotion and pressure from media ,anti-gun citizens,and politicians to"do something"

It is precisely the irresponsible violence of a relatively few people that drives restrictive gun laws.

I speak for myself, I am not a snowflake who will be triggered and need my safe space when someone from another part of the world tries to have a friendly conversation.

Our PC world has made every conversation a dance in a minefield.

If you are so thin skinned you can't handle a conversation from someone who has a slightly different world view,perhaps you should go elsewhere.

I have respect for "The Cowboy Way" I wish more Americans had learned to practice it.

FWIW,this will take you to a vid about 303 squadron,some Polish volunteer pilots who played a role in the Battle of Britain before the USA became involved.

https://youtu.be/ptijNcDanVw

[Drae]

Well, you see, i have absolutely no idea what causes school shootings, i'm sure it's not gun laws. Some people think it's the cause but i think it's more of... uh... dunno how to say it to not offend anyone... americans being a little more trigger happy? (also kids somehow getting access to guns)
Heck, here we don't even need toy guns and ASG to have orange tips or anything silly like that. A toy looks like a toy and if you can put an orange tip on an airsoft gun to distinguish it from lead lobbing devices you can put one on a real gun to fake it being a toy. Dumb isn't it?

[Tuzo]

Why are there no ice cubes in Poland? The recipe was lost.

Welcome to the forum. My father was Polish and told a funny story about an incident during his army service immediately before WWII. He was on guard duty during a very cold night. Feet were freezing (hobnail boot soles) and he desperately needed to be relieved. He fired his rifle and that brought his sergeant running to his post. Pappa explained how infiltrators did not respond to his challenge so he had no choice but to shoot. Of course there were no infiltrators but he never served guard duty again.

[K_Mac]

An interesting post HiBC. You are certainly entitled to your views. I stand by mine.

I worked for years with a first generation Pole. He is one of the finest American's I know. I know some of the history and have great respect for the Polish people. The primary point of my response to Drae is that this a gun forum.

If anyone wants to discuss social, political, religious issues or any other topic I'm all for it. Come on over. We can have a cup of coffee and discuss my sensitive nature. My point is these issues are not appropriate here, as your response clearly shows.

Edit: I responded to your original and more personal unedited post. My response remains the same.

[SIGSHR]

Here we speak "Gun".

[Mal H]

I just deleted the inevitable "troll" call type of post. We'll have none of that, please. If you think something fishy is going on here or in any thread, report it, don't publicize it and make yourself look less friendly than we strive to be here.

[TruthTellers]

Originally Posted by Drae

Well, you see, i have absolutely no idea what causes school shootings, i'm sure it's not gun laws. Some people think it's the cause but i think it's more of... uh... dunno how to say it to not offend anyone... americans being a little more trigger happy? (also kids somehow getting access to guns)
Heck, here we don't even need toy guns and ASG to have orange tips or anything silly like that. A toy looks like a toy and if you can put an orange tip on an airsoft gun to distinguish it from lead lobbing devices you can put one on a real gun to fake it being a toy. Dumb isn't it?

A long time ago we didn't have school shootings in the US, at least not in the numbers we have today. I think much of the phenomenon in the US with that has to do with the population increasing dramatically over the decades and thus number of shootings increasing. There's also been a change in the recent past the way that some shootings are labeled school shootings, even if they just involve a shooting near a school's campus and not involving any students or faculty. Then there's also the church and state separation thing.

I mean, I've never heard of a shooting at Catholic school and last I checked, Poland was overwhelmingly a Catholic nation.

Why are there no ice cubes in Poland? The recipe was lost.

LOL.

[Frank Ettin]

Drae, welcome. We are an international group, although the vast majority of members are in the U.S. I suspect that at least some of the folks expressing umbrage at the term "murica" call magazines clips.

I personally, however, a great believer in the Chinese saying, "The first step towards wisdom is calling things by their right names."

Originally Posted by Sharkbite

I never make fun of the Polish. The Belgians however....

As they say in the French Foreign Legion (in "Marche de la Légion Étrangère") :

Tiens, voilà du boudin, voilà du boudin, voilà du boudin
Pour les Alsaciens, les Suisses et les Lorrains.
Pour les Belges y en a plus.
Pour les Belges y en a plus.
Ce sont des tireurs au cul.
Pour les Belges y en a plus.
Pour les Belges y en a plus.
Ce sont des tireurs au cul.

[In The Ten Ring]

What causes school shootings in USA?

I'm no psychologist but I've often considered it as a fourth college degree.

1). American society has moved away from stable, two parent homes.
2). American parents and schools no longer encourage fighting. Students that are bullied have no outlet and no recourse. Getting into a fight these days is seen as a "life and death" event where in the past it was just brushed off.
3). Religion is on the decline in USA. When you really think you'll go to hell for certain things, you won't do those things.
4). Lack of firearms training. As a child I knew EXACTLY what a "real gun" would do. I didn't play with the real guns.
5). Lack of father's rod. I knew if I ever got caught looking at the real guns dad would wear my butt out.
6). Gun free zones. Children (and adults) that have decided to kill only do so in areas where they know the targets can't shoot back. They are bullies in the best sense. A bully will never pick on the football team members or the wrestling team as he knows he'll get hurt plus the team will keep hurting him. He picks on the skinny, nerdy guy with no friends. Animals do this, it is instinctive to life.
7). A fatalistic mentality. Only a person that has no hope wants to be remembered for evil.

All of these things in combination lead to school shootings.

I do have one question Drae, how can one be "overly patriotic?" Shouldn't one love their country and think it the best?

[shooterdownunder]

What happened to Firepower! I think that was the Pakistani with all the fun toys names. Maybe I am confusing people.

People drove him out because he bought an L85. it's a shame too, he had some nice toys.

[blackwidowp61]

Ten Ring, I would like to suggest an addition to your number 7.

I would think there would be a lot fewer shootings of any kind if the media didn't plaster the shooter's name and/or picture all over. If they want to report the event, fine, but why do they have to include the shooters name/picture? It gets their name/picture out there for everybody to see, which is what a lot of them probably wanted in the first place.

ps...Tuzo, great story. Drae, welcome!

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by In the Ten Ring

What causes school shootings in USA?

...

1). American society has moved away from stable, two parent homes.
2). American parents and schools no longer encourage fighting. Students that are bullied have no outlet and no recourse. Getting into a fight these days is seen as a "life and death" event where in the past it was just brushed off.
...

More to number 2 on your list: Schools don't want to admit that they have a bullying problem, so they tend to first ignore, and then cover up, incidents of bullying. My daughter was bullied as a sophomore in high school to the point that she had a nervous breakdown. The school absolutely denied that any of it happened. However, I had a friend who was on the faculty, and she told me (privately and off the record) that she was certain it DID happen. Why was she certain? Because the same thing happened to her son and, even though she worked in the school, they did the same routine of denial and "There's no problem here" with her son.

They don't have an effective strategy for dealing with it, because they don't allow the kids to fight or even to defend themselves (the victim is punished the same as the aggressor), and they don't allow the teachers to discipline the bad actors, so the only way to not have statistics showing incidents of bullying is to sweep them under the carpet and pretend they never happened.

[In The Ten Ring]

Black Widow and Aguila,

You are right. I should make an edit! Schools teach "herd mentality" when it comes to standing up to bullies.

The children most at risk for being bullied are the ones most fearful of being suspended. The school system standard of punishing both bully and victim equally has a disproportionate effect on the victim......the victim actually cares about their grades while the bully does not.

[tangolima]

Originally Posted by In The Ten Ring

What causes school shootings in USA?

I'm no psychologist but I've often considered it as a fourth college degree.

1). American society has moved away from stable, two parent homes.
2). American parents and schools no longer encourage fighting. Students that are bullied have no outlet and no recourse. Getting into a fight these days is seen as a "life and death" event where in the past it was just brushed off.
3). Religion is on the decline in USA. When you really think you'll go to hell for certain things, you won't do those things.
4). Lack of firearms training. As a child I knew EXACTLY what a "real gun" would do. I didn't play with the real guns.
5). Lack of father's rod. I knew if I ever got caught looking at the real guns dad would wear my butt out.
6). Gun free zones. Children (and adults) that have decided to kill only do so in areas where they know the targets can't shoot back. They are bullies in the best sense. A bully will never pick on the football team members or the wrestling team as he knows he'll get hurt plus the team will keep hurting him. He picks on the skinny, nerdy guy with no friends. Animals do this, it is instinctive to life.
7). A fatalistic mentality. Only a person that has no hope wants to be remembered for evil.

All of these things in combination lead to school shootings.

I do have one question Drae, how can one be "overly patriotic?" Shouldn't one love their country and think it the best?

This, my friend, I agree with you wholeheartedly.

-TL

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

[Aguila Blanca]

Just saw this and have to respond:

Originally Posted by Drae

Well, you see, i have absolutely no idea what causes school shootings, i'm sure it's not gun laws. Some people think it's the cause but i think it's more of... uh... dunno how to say it to not offend anyone... americans being a little more trigger happy?

No, it is not Americans being more trigger happy. It is a combination of the various factors listed in the post by In the Ten Ring, plus the additional factor I mentioned following that, plus another factor that some people on both sides of the argument dismiss as fantasy: the proliferation of shooting as the answer to all problems, seen on both television, movie screens, and in computer games. Apologists for the movie and game industries tell us that seeing innumerable shootings and killings every day doesn't have any effect on the minds of young people. I don't believe that. I don't see how it could possibly NOT have an effect.

Do you have youth gangs in Poland? We have them here. Even where there aren't gangs, there are kids who choose to adopt a gangster attitude and mentality. Much of that revolves around what is referred to as "street cred" (credibility), which is an attitude on the part of the would-be gangster that "You WILL show me the respect that I think is due to me!" And if they don't receive the respect they think is due to them, the standard gangster response is ... shoot the person or people who disrespected you.

The problem is far more complex than "Americans are trigger happy."

[In The Ten Ring]

Thank you Aguila, I have to agree also with your belief concerning the proliferation of "gangster mentality" in the country.

[TunnelRat]

Kind of a weird way to start a thread by telling your audience you presume they’ll mistreat you because of where they are from. Just come here and discuss. It’s a forum. If legal factors start applying in the topic just point out your location.


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[Drae]

Okay, so american kids are a little more dumb and want what they think is respect, also someone thinks it has to do with religion (fun fact, the 'majority of poland is catholic' is a think just on paper, most people i know are moving away from religion, me included). Anyway i think there's nothing else to talk about in this thread soooo... um, lock/delete/whatever? How do i delete ._.

[CalmerThanYou]

Yes, I am sure the dumb kids and religion comments will not solicit any further debate.

[Evan Thomas]

Drae, welcome to TFL! And you've certainly had quite the welcome...

Originally Posted by Drae

Anyway i think there's nothing else to talk about in this thread soooo... um, lock/delete/whatever? How do i delete ._.

You can't delete it, but I can definitely close it, and I agree -- at this point that's the best course of action with this one.

I'm looking forward to your contributions to other threads, though -- we can definitely use more women, and also more Poles, around here.