plastic pistols

[Glenn E. Meyer]

The polymer guns will probably have a longer life span than I will. If my Glock 19 falls apart when my grandkids are shooting plasma rifles at Terminators, I don't care.

I've run Glocks since 1994 and they still are fine. Some springs replaced.

[O4L]

For me it comes down to a pistol being a reliable, efficient tool.

I was a carpenter for many years and a machinist for a while. I appreciate tools that work well and get the job done.

I am a shooter not a collector and my guns reflect that. If I had the disposable income to collect nice revolvers and steel or other metal semi-autos I would, but that's not the case.

It took a while, because I was old school steel framed pistols only for years, but once I started using polymer striker fired pistols I found that they are the best tool for the job as far as I'm concerned. YMMV.

Some posting here sound like these plastic pistols are a new phenomenon and we don't know how long they will last before "degrading" to the point of being unusable. That's just not true.

You may not care for the polymer pistols, and that's just fine, but for me they are the right tool for the job.

[9x19]

Well, Remington's Nylon 66 has been around for 50 years... and I'll bet "plastic" formulas have come a long way since then.

I've been shooting Glocks since the late 80s, never seen one crumble from age.

[Metric]

Just a reminder of the original point of the thread. It's not that plastic is bad, per se. It's that all the plastic pistols on the market are essentially the same pistol, and that interesting options that we used to have have been completely swallowed up.

[HighValleyRanch]

It's that all the plastic pistols on the market are essentially the same pistol,

According to whom? That's a pretty generalized statement. It's like saying that all revolvers are the same.
My HKP2000SK is very different than my glock 19.
You might as well say that all guns are the same. You pull a trigger and a bullet goes out the other end!

[Metric]

Please point me in the direction of the diverse selection of high-quality, purpose-designed single-action plastic pistols.

If I want that in steel, at least I can get a 1911, high-power, or (soon) the American version of the P210. There are also a few cases in which SA triggers have been grafted onto what were originally DA designs (Sig-Sauer and CZ).

Plastic pistols are essentially interchangeable, at least in today's market.

[osbornk]

Well, Remington's Nylon 66 has been around for 50 years... and I'll bet "plastic" formulas have come a long way since then

.

That is the reason i bought a Mossberg Blaze 47 the other day. It is all polymer, weighs next to nothing and is very accurate with a 25 round mag. My son-in-law's father has had a Nylon 66 since 1968 and it still looks and shoots like new.

[HighValleyRanch]

Plastic pistols are essentially interchangeable, at least in today's market.

With a statement like that, I would obviously be wasting my time explaining the differences of various "plastic" pistols!
I guess an LCR and a glock are one and the same.

[surveyor]

I understand some folks fascination for plastic/polymer/or reinforced nylon materials.
Yes they make a servicable pistol, no denying it.

I'll put my flame suit on and say I have considered a plastic frame cheaper to produce than a metal one, and given the choice between a metal frame and a plastic one for the same price point I would pick the metal frame.

I had a glock 34 for a couple weeks and it would not do anything better than a metal frame gun, so I ended up parting with it.

I picked up a cz p-07, and for the price point, I'm pleased with it.
It is a good balance of a overall use gun.

Does that mean that it shoots as well as a well tuned single action cz 85 combat...
Of course not. But it is a diffrent use.

[jetinteriorguy]

I just like them all. Although I will admit, all my revolvers are steel only and all my semi auto's are polymer. But the next on my list is a steel CZ75.

[Spats McGee]

To my mind, the question isn't whether plastic will outlast steel, but whether it will outlast me. I suspect that it will, too. I had a long-time aversion to plastic pistols, but I appear to have recovered. As much as I like park'd steel and wood, I've grown to appreciate the lighter weight of plastic.

And yeah, I'm man enough to carry steel, but I try not to make life any harder for myself than I have to.

[rodfac]

I own both types but find that only the blue steel and walnut, (OK, I do really like my Smith M60, M69 & M629) rings the bell for me. A vintage Model 19, Flat Top Rugers, a cpl SSA Colts, a slew of 1911's, & one very special Hi-Power, all bring a happy smile to my face when I holster them and head for our farm range. Those guns speak to me of lineage& tradition, craftsmanship and pride of ownership that is just lacking in one of the wonder polymers.

But I gotta admit, my wife's G23 is sure light on the hip; there's no way that a similar capacity steel and walnut pistol would weigh short of 5 lbs. LOL. If you need that kind of capacity that poly allows, (your duty belt already weighs close to 20 pounds), a Glock or something similar makes a lot of sense...you just won't get all misty-eyed telling your pals how you managed to find it on GB for $100 off.

But it's important to remember, that we're all shooters...strong supporters of the 2nd Amendment, and as Americans, one and all, we support each other's choices, be it manly steel and walnut or soulless plastic!

YMMV, Rod

[fl_rich]

Amen Rod!

ShootistPRS - Ive been enjoying this conversation from the back row.

I have to say. I own metal and plastic guns. All the plastic guns I have the slide rides on metal rails embedded into the polymer (plastic). Some of these are are even replaceable. So all wear is metal on metal. I don't know of any polymer to metal wear surfaces. There are polymer to metal parts but these are usually a spring hooked to polymer or a rod off some sort...

What do you do when your 1911 is so loose it rattles? Ive seen many in this condition. For my FNX I replace the internal wear parts and its back to as new.

Just putting forth the polymer (plastic) side of the discussion.

[BoogieMan]

Love this topic.
I see the usefulness of the plastic pistol. What I dont see is the value. All plastic frames cost about the same to produce and its less than $5 in quantity including the mold. They are popped out 4 at a time but completely unskilled labor into a pile to be de-flashed and assembled. For the most part even the slide has no character. Im not buying to make money for the manufacturer. I want the finest handgun I can afford to buy every time I buy, and its several a year. You can argue that modern guns from CNC shops are no different. But you would be wrong. Taking a forging or a billet and cutting away at it even with a CNC is still sculpting. No matter what a plastic gun will never ever have the character of 1903, 1911, Luger, PPK, etc.. It cant. So if you want a tool to be worn and abused in a tool belt (like a hammer) then maybe the plastic gun is ideal.

[75218ron]

And yeah, I'm man enough to carry steel, but I try not to make life any harder for myself than I have to.
__________________

hahahahahaha......good one

[BoogieMan]

What do you do when your 1911 is so loose it rattles?

That doesnt happen until hundreds of thousands of rounds in a quality gun. At that point you hang it in a frame on the wall. Let it die a noble death as it has served its master well. Or pop a new barrel, bushing in it and go another 20k rounds.

[Ocraknife]

I like plastic guns and I like metal guns.

[TunnelRat]

Im not buying to make money for the manufacturer.

But you are though, or they wouldn't sell it. You can argue that the manufacturer is making a lot less and maybe they are, but I've never seen the invoices to prove that even if I'd believe it myself.

I want the finest handgun I can afford to buy every time I buy, and its several a year.

To me the quality is in the function.

You can argue that modern guns from CNC shops are no different. But you would be wrong. Taking a forging or a billet and cutting away at it even with a CNC is still sculpting.

It's machine sculpting. To me that's not much different than molding a polymer frame. It may well require more work I grant you that, but idk that I consider it "craftsmanship".

[Ocraknife]

Love this topic.
I see the usefulness of the plastic pistol. What I dont see is the value. All plastic frames cost about the same to produce and its less than $5 in quantity including the mold. They are popped out 4 at a time but completely unskilled labor into a pile to be de-flashed and assembled. For the most part even the slide has no character. Im not buying to make money for the manufacturer. I want the finest handgun I can afford to buy every time I buy, and its several a year. You can argue that modern guns from CNC shops are no different. But you would be wrong. Taking a forging or a billet and cutting away at it even with a CNC is still sculpting. No matter what a plastic gun will never ever have the character of 1903, 1911, Luger, PPK, etc.. It cant. So if you want a tool to be worn and abused in a tool belt (like a hammer) then maybe the plastic gun is ideal.

Wow, just $4. I wouldn't have guessed that. With all the metal inserts and everything is it still $4? Would you mind sharing your cost data from each manufacturer? I assume you're an industry insider so you may not be able to disclose this overtly.

[9x19]

From a reliable source (who still posts here) a number of years ago, but I don't know if today's steel/polymer prices have the same cost differential (emphasis mine).

...From 3 human and 5 technical sources, Glock uses an out-sourced proprietary hybrid polymer mix with a base of Nylon 6. The frames are cast and offer high strength, wear resistance, abrasion resistance, and good resiliency, good ductility and toughness. Fracture mechanics are excellent with defect ratios below 1. Do not compare to extruded Nylons because it is different. Commerical price for hi-grade Nylon 6 is about $3.50/lb. Commerical price for hi-carbon steel is about $1.50/lb. Sounds to me like the Glock is actually a better buy than most steel guns. The Glock is considered highly-intricate due to imbedded metallic components...

[Bill DeShivs]

A pound of plastic will make many more frames than a pound of steel, so it's considerably cheaper.

[44 AMP]

What do you do when your 1911 is so loose it rattles?

As long as it keeps landing its rounds on target, you keep shooting it!

[75218ron]

The FNH USA Five-seveN [MSRP $1,349]

[BoogieMan]

Wow, just $4. I wouldn't have guessed that. With all the metal inserts and everything is it still $4? Would you mind sharing your cost data from each manufacturer? I assume you're an industry insider so you may not be able to disclose this overtly.

I have been in manufacturing for over 22 years, engineering, estimating, etc.. . I have a pretty good idea of costs. With molding it makes little difference weather its a baby bottle or a handgun frame. Molds now come almost exclusively from China and are tuned in the area of manufacture such as US or Austria. The frames are all variants of 6/12 nylon. Glass or mineral fill to help retain shape, color and heat resistance.

[Chris_B]

What do you do when your 1911 is so loose it rattles? Ive seen many in this condition.

So it rattles. This "rule of thumb" re: the dreaded rattles is something I have read for years. In my opinion this is a myth, right up there with unicorns, leprechauns, virgins, and other fairly tales.

This 1911 rattles like a pocketful of loose change. Nothing wrong with it. Best shooting I have ever done with a 1911 type, in fact. 1918 production Colt Model of 1911, somebody put a target front sight on it decades ago. I had put new grips on it for the range trip. The originals are too smooth.