Best Iron Sight Zero

Spencer267 · June 5, 2018, 05:21 AM

I realize this is a highly debated topic, but what do you guys think in the best iron sight zero. Currently, I'm working with a rough zero of 100 yards. However, a lot of people prefer the 50 yard zero. What about the 25 meter 300 meter zero target that is used by the Army. This is the way I sighted in my M16A2 in basic training and I shot relatively well. Let me know your opinions and if you are able to provide number, even better!

Mobuck · June 5, 2018, 06:01 AM

With a center fire rifle, there's really not much diff between 50. 100. and 200 yards and most shooters are challenged to hold that close anyway. No significant advantage to sighting @ 50 yards and actually, this short "zero" will cause longer distance unreasonably high POI.

marine6680 · June 5, 2018, 09:06 AM

I would say it depends...

A basic set of BUIS irons, they don't have much adjustability. You pick a zero and go.

I treat basic BUIS like a red dot... 50yd zero. I get it as tight and nailed down as I can though. To eliminate as much error at extended range as I can. Always good to verify your far zero as well, which is around 225yds with a 50yd zero.

Now if I have sights with elevation adjustment for range, I will zero them to work with the range adjustments.

Wyosmith · June 5, 2018, 10:39 AM

Can you give us more info?
What rifle and what load?
What is the "mission statement"? Deer? Elk? Rabbits? Steel Targets? Paper targets?

Sights are a way of aiming and hitting the intended target, but the fact that they are iron sights (as opposed to a scope) is not as important as answer the question "what will it be used for"?

As an example, I have a lever action marlin 30-30 with a peep sight. I zero at 150 and that causes it to hit about 4" high at 100 yards, but a 4" high "miss" doesn't loose me any deer or antelope, and I don't use the 30-30 for rabbits.

I also have a Winchester M95 in 270 with a set of open semi-buckhorns. I shoot 150 grain bullets at 2850 FPS and I zero at 250 yards. The 270 is flat enough that the trajectory doesn't even come out from behind the bead of the front sight until the bullet passes 375 yards. It's for deer, elk, antelope, wolves, coyotes, and about anything else that needs to have a bullet hole made in it. So one is zeroed at 150 and the other at 250. One is good to about 200 yards max, and the other to about 375 or 400 with those zeros.

Which is "better?

marine6680 · June 5, 2018, 11:18 AM

My answer was based on 5.56/223 from an AR with 16in barrel, based on the mention of experience with M16s in the military.

Anything else is going to be different.

Spencer267 · June 5, 2018, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyosmith

Can you give us more info?
What rifle and what load?
What is the "mission statement"? Deer? Elk? Rabbits? Steel Targets? Paper targets?

Sights are a way of aiming and hitting the intended target, but the fact that they are iron sights (as opposed to a scope) is not as important as answer the question "what will it be used for"?

As an example, I have a lever action marlin 30-30 with a peep sight. I zero at 150 and that causes it to hit about 4" high at 100 yards, but a 4" high "miss" doesn't loose me any deer or antelope, and I don't use the 30-30 for rabbits.

I also have a Winchester M95 in 270 with a set of open semi-buckhorns. I shoot 150 grain bullets at 2850 FPS and I zero at 250 yards. The 270 is flat enough that the trajectory doesn't even come out from behind the bead of the front sight until the bullet passes 375 yards. It's for deer, elk, antelope, wolves, coyotes, and about anything else that needs to have a bullet hole made in it. So one is zeroed at 150 and the other at 250. One is good to about 200 yards max, and the other to about 375 or 400 with those zeros.

Which is "better?

Good point. My rifle is a Colt 6920 with a 16 inch barrel. I bought this to serve as my home defense/bug out rifle. The load I'm currently using is Federal XM193 55 grain. In the case of a bug out rifle, I don't intend on trying to reach out to vast distances unless I really had to. I want to obtain another rifle for that purpose later.

marine6680 · June 5, 2018, 11:52 AM

What is your sight setup?

Red dot with BUIS?

Spencer267 · June 5, 2018, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marine6680

What is your sight setup?

Red dot with BUIS?

It will be. I'm in the market for a good red dot but for now it's just my BUIS.

hdwhit · June 5, 2018, 01:02 PM

Quote:

I bought this to serve as my home defense/bug out rifle.

In that case, recognize that your likely target is going to be a human being, not an animal. I have my rifles zeroed at 100 yards. That makes them useful for small to medium size game and will let you accurately fire center-of-mass shots at an attacker who is some distance away. With 223/5.56, the trajectory is flat enough that as the distance closes your shots will still be within the thoracic area of your intended victim.

pblanc · June 5, 2018, 02:18 PM

Well, you could always go with an elevation adjustable rear sight like the MaTech for more flexibility.

With non-elevation adjustable rear sights, assuming a sight axis above bore of 1.5", shooting M 193 55 grain a 50 meter zero will have your point of impact within one inch of your point of aim all the way from just under 13 meters all the way out to 155 meters, which seems to me to be a reasonable range of distances for shooting a rifle with open sights.

With a red dot of 2 MOA size, a 50 yard zero will place your POI within the 2 MOA dot all the way from about 31 yards out to almost 275 yards. At very short range you will have to use a small hold over but even if you don't, your hits will still be within an inch and a half of POI or so.

Art Eatman · June 6, 2018, 12:47 AM

I'm lazy: I sight in any of the flat-shooting centerfires at two inches high at 100 yards. For targets larger than ground squirrels and tweety-birds, I don't have to think.

marine6680 · June 6, 2018, 01:14 PM

The 50yd zero works well for standard BUIS.

Height over bore for AR sights is 2.6in I believe.

The ballistics with 55gr ammo, of 5.56 spec...

From 0 to 275 yards, you are no more than 2.5 inches high or low from point of aim.

Works well for center of mass hits during defensive senarios through that range.

Spencer267 · June 6, 2018, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marine6680

The 50yd zero works well for standard BUIS.

Height over bore for AR sights is 2.6in I believe.

The ballistics with 55gr ammo, of 5.56 spec...

From 0 to 275 yards, you are no more than 2.5 inches high or low from point of aim.

Works well for center of mass hits during defensive senarios through that range.

How would that point of aim compare to that of a 100yd zero? How about the 300 meter target that the Army uses?

jrothWA · June 6, 2018, 03:29 PM

then anything close was a hit.

Ranged farther out then use some elevation.

KISS works!

Don Dayacetah · June 6, 2018, 07:04 PM

50 yards. For hunting, I check the parallax at 25 and 100 yards.

marine6680 · June 6, 2018, 07:17 PM

A 100yd zero gets you to 210yds before the deviation from point of aim exceeds 2.5in.

A 300yd zero has deviations of up to 5in before hitting 300yds, and it's dropping quickly past that.

raimius · June 6, 2018, 08:35 PM

It depends on how close you want to be to your zero at given distances.
The 50yd zero usually keeps you inside 3in of your point of aim out to 250yds or so (5.56 carbine shooting 55 or 62gn ammo).
A 25yd zero extends your "maximum point blank range" a bit, but the rise and fall is going to be in the 3-4in range.
If you want ONLY holdover or zero, the 100yd method usually works.

Personally, I usually go with a 50yd zero, as I like the MPBR and +2.6in impacts within that range.
Some counter-terror units reportedly use the 100m zero because they can be even more precise with holdovers inside that distance...but that's a specialized application.

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/...defense-ar-15/

Spencer267 · June 6, 2018, 09:26 PM

Thanks for the info, guys. I figure I'm gonna stick with the 100 yard zero that I already have. Now I just need a good optic and I should be all set.

marine6680 · June 7, 2018, 12:33 AM

A 100yd zero is basically for every distance other than 100yds, you hold over. As it will be low everywhere except at 100yds.

It is a unique zero in that it has no near and far zero point, the bullet rises to meet the 100yd zero point, then begins to fall again. As opposed to something like a 50 us zero, that rises through the zero at 50yds, than passes back through the sight plane and zero again at around 225yds.

A 100yd zero is a very usable zero out to 200yds with minimal hold over. Or you can not bother inside that range.

Unless you anticipate needing to make a precise shot for some reason, a couple inches of deviation is better than most people can hold when shooting anyway.

HWS · July 2, 2018, 09:55 PM

I zeroed my irons at 100 but my new PR 2.5 prism is zeroed at 50 yards which they say will not only work at 200, but also 300. They are right, it does. Therefore, I am thinking about re-zeroing my irons at 50 for consistency. But, as has been said, we are talking 2-4 inches here, right, so what is the big deal.

June 5, 2018, 05:21 AM	#1
Spencer267 Member Join Date: November 12, 2016 Posts: 29	Best Iron Sight Zero I realize this is a highly debated topic, but what do you guys think in the best iron sight zero. Currently, I'm working with a rough zero of 100 yards. However, a lot of people prefer the 50 yard zero. What about the 25 meter 300 meter zero target that is used by the Army. This is the way I sighted in my M16A2 in basic training and I shot relatively well. Let me know your opinions and if you are able to provide number, even better!

June 6, 2018, 03:29 PM	#14
jrothWA Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2006 Posts: 2,519	For all rifles, inthe cabinet, was able to get 200 yds zero, then anything close was a hit. Ranged farther out then use some elevation. KISS works!

June 6, 2018, 08:35 PM	#17
raimius Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2008 Posts: 2,199	It depends on how close you want to be to your zero at given distances. The 50yd zero usually keeps you inside 3in of your point of aim out to 250yds or so (5.56 carbine shooting 55 or 62gn ammo). A 25yd zero extends your "maximum point blank range" a bit, but the rise and fall is going to be in the 3-4in range. If you want ONLY holdover or zero, the 100yd method usually works. Personally, I usually go with a 50yd zero, as I like the MPBR and +2.6in impacts within that range. Some counter-terror units reportedly use the 100m zero because they can be even more precise with holdovers inside that distance...but that's a specialized application. https://www.shootingillustrated.com/...defense-ar-15/ Last edited by raimius; June 6, 2018 at 08:41 PM.

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June 5, 2018, 06:01 AM	#2
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	With a center fire rifle, there's really not much diff between 50. 100. and 200 yards and most shooters are challenged to hold that close anyway. No significant advantage to sighting @ 50 yards and actually, this short "zero" will cause longer distance unreasonably high POI.

June 5, 2018, 09:06 AM	#3
marine6680 Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2012 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 4,594	I would say it depends... A basic set of BUIS irons, they don't have much adjustability. You pick a zero and go. I treat basic BUIS like a red dot... 50yd zero. I get it as tight and nailed down as I can though. To eliminate as much error at extended range as I can. Always good to verify your far zero as well, which is around 225yds with a 50yd zero. Now if I have sights with elevation adjustment for range, I will zero them to work with the range adjustments.

June 5, 2018, 10:39 AM	#4
Wyosmith Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2010 Location: Shoshoni Wyoming Posts: 2,713	Can you give us more info? What rifle and what load? What is the "mission statement"? Deer? Elk? Rabbits? Steel Targets? Paper targets? Sights are a way of aiming and hitting the intended target, but the fact that they are iron sights (as opposed to a scope) is not as important as answer the question "what will it be used for"? As an example, I have a lever action marlin 30-30 with a peep sight. I zero at 150 and that causes it to hit about 4" high at 100 yards, but a 4" high "miss" doesn't loose me any deer or antelope, and I don't use the 30-30 for rabbits. I also have a Winchester M95 in 270 with a set of open semi-buckhorns. I shoot 150 grain bullets at 2850 FPS and I zero at 250 yards. The 270 is flat enough that the trajectory doesn't even come out from behind the bead of the front sight until the bullet passes 375 yards. It's for deer, elk, antelope, wolves, coyotes, and about anything else that needs to have a bullet hole made in it. So one is zeroed at 150 and the other at 250. One is good to about 200 yards max, and the other to about 375 or 400 with those zeros. Which is "better?

June 5, 2018, 11:18 AM	#5
marine6680 Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2012 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 4,594	My answer was based on 5.56/223 from an AR with 16in barrel, based on the mention of experience with M16s in the military. Anything else is going to be different.

June 5, 2018, 11:52 AM	#7
marine6680 Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2012 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 4,594	What is your sight setup? Red dot with BUIS?

June 5, 2018, 02:18 PM	#10
pblanc Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 697	Well, you could always go with an elevation adjustable rear sight like the MaTech for more flexibility. With non-elevation adjustable rear sights, assuming a sight axis above bore of 1.5", shooting M 193 55 grain a 50 meter zero will have your point of impact within one inch of your point of aim all the way from just under 13 meters all the way out to 155 meters, which seems to me to be a reasonable range of distances for shooting a rifle with open sights. With a red dot of 2 MOA size, a 50 yard zero will place your POI within the 2 MOA dot all the way from about 31 yards out to almost 275 yards. At very short range you will have to use a small hold over but even if you don't, your hits will still be within an inch and a half of POI or so.

June 6, 2018, 12:47 AM	#11
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	I'm lazy: I sight in any of the flat-shooting centerfires at two inches high at 100 yards. For targets larger than ground squirrels and tweety-birds, I don't have to think.

June 6, 2018, 01:14 PM	#12
marine6680 Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2012 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 4,594	The 50yd zero works well for standard BUIS. Height over bore for AR sights is 2.6in I believe. The ballistics with 55gr ammo, of 5.56 spec... From 0 to 275 yards, you are no more than 2.5 inches high or low from point of aim. Works well for center of mass hits during defensive senarios through that range.

June 6, 2018, 07:04 PM	#15
Don Dayacetah Member Join Date: May 28, 2018 Posts: 59	50 yards. For hunting, I check the parallax at 25 and 100 yards.

June 6, 2018, 07:17 PM	#16
marine6680 Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2012 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 4,594	A 100yd zero gets you to 210yds before the deviation from point of aim exceeds 2.5in. A 300yd zero has deviations of up to 5in before hitting 300yds, and it's dropping quickly past that.

June 6, 2018, 09:26 PM	#18
Spencer267 Member Join Date: November 12, 2016 Posts: 29	Thanks for the info, guys. I figure I'm gonna stick with the 100 yard zero that I already have. Now I just need a good optic and I should be all set.

June 7, 2018, 12:33 AM	#19
marine6680 Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2012 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 4,594	A 100yd zero is basically for every distance other than 100yds, you hold over. As it will be low everywhere except at 100yds. It is a unique zero in that it has no near and far zero point, the bullet rises to meet the 100yd zero point, then begins to fall again. As opposed to something like a 50 us zero, that rises through the zero at 50yds, than passes back through the sight plane and zero again at around 225yds. A 100yd zero is a very usable zero out to 200yds with minimal hold over. Or you can not bother inside that range. Unless you anticipate needing to make a precise shot for some reason, a couple inches of deviation is better than most people can hold when shooting anyway.

July 2, 2018, 09:55 PM	#20
HWS Member Join Date: July 1, 2018 Posts: 90	I zeroed my irons at 100 but my new PR 2.5 prism is zeroed at 50 yards which they say will not only work at 200, but also 300. They are right, it does. Therefore, I am thinking about re-zeroing my irons at 50 for consistency. But, as has been said, we are talking 2-4 inches here, right, so what is the big deal.