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Old March 29, 2014, 12:24 AM   #1
jpeschken
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Question about load tables.

I have yet to load anything and something I see in the load tables I have is puzzling me.

I plan to start with .38 Specials (easy to recover brass and I like revolvers). I have ordered up some plated bullets in 125 grain, and am trying to understand powders. My Lee reloading book lists only numbers like "v-N320" and "v-3N37" for plated 125g bullets. For other bullets I see names like "WIN 231" and "Titegroup". I know these are manufacturers, but can these "v-" numbers be manufacturers or is that some other sort of designation? Also, why so few listings for plated or jacketed bullets? There are only 4 for these whereas lead bullets have 15. If the v- indicates a manufacturer, it seems hard to believe I am restricted to one powder manufacturer.

Can I use the load data for 125g plain lead, or would that be a horrible idea?

Thanks for helping a rookie understand.
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Old March 29, 2014, 12:35 AM   #2
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The "v" in question is a powder manufacturer - VihtaVuori. They're a high-end powder. I've never used any. They're kind of expensive.

In the case of 38 Special, lead is king. It is a very popular caliber for shooting lead. And that's why you see so many lead choices.

Good choice on starting to load with 38 Special. It's the easiest and most fun to load (okay, maybe 44 Magnum is more fun )

On your plated 125's, load to jacketed data - not lead. Plated bullets have more barrel friction - like jacketed. If you load to the low end of lead data, you will be flirting with getting a bullet stuck in the barrel of your gun.

Do you have powder yet? If so, what?
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Old March 29, 2014, 12:45 AM   #3
jpeschken
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That's interesting, since the volumes called out for the VihtaVuori are higher than powders listed for any other 125g bullet. Apparently it's expensive and you need to use lots of it!

Thanks for the clarification.
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Old March 29, 2014, 01:05 AM   #4
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I'd like to point out that when you see a load table, it contains only those things they tested, and their results are only 100% applicable to the guns they used in testing.

99% (or so) of the rest of our guns will have identical or very similar results, but not 100%, which is why we use ALL loading data as guidelines, carefully starting at the low end and working our way up to full performance loads.

What they get as a max load in their guns might not be in yours. Yours could be quite different. Odds are it will be about the same, but....

If you don't see a particular powder listed for a particular bullet, it means that they either didn't test it, OR they did, and found it unsuitable for some reason.
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Old March 29, 2014, 09:56 PM   #5
TimSr
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I'm not familiar with Lee data, and I don't usually see it in the gun stores which makes me wonder how extensive it is. As 44 AMP said, they only list what they've tested. It doesn't mean those are the only suitable powders.


If you go here:

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/

and select your 125 gr bullet, you will get a couple dozen powders for both jacketed and lead bullets with Hogdon, IMR, and Winchester powders. As Nick said, use jacketed data.


I'm kind of partial to Alliant powders Unique or Bullseye for .38 target loads, but I started loading a long time ago, and haven't tried these new improved target pistol powders.
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Old March 30, 2014, 11:19 AM   #6
jpeschken
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I see, so no one load table is complete.

I would imagine that the powder manufacturers would be the most motivated to make as complete a chart as possible for their powders.

I went out shopping for powder yesterday. My local Cabelas had exactly one bottle, and it was something i could not use. The Gander Mountain (Regional Chain) next door had a bit more, but nothing I could find on the load charts I have. That sort of crimps a beginning reloader's style.
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Old March 30, 2014, 11:48 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick_C_S
On your plated 125's, load to jacketed data - not lead.

jpeschken, It's best if you check out your bullet manufactures load data recommendations. You did not say who manufactured your plated bullets, so I will show you what two of the most popular say about data.

From Berry's Plated Bullets.
"We recommend using hard cast load data or start with mid-range jacketed data."

http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq-q21-c1-...d_Bullets.aspx

From Rainier Plated Bullets.
We, at Rainier Ballistics, recommend using lead bullet load data when loading our bullets. There is no need for adjustment when using lead bullet load data.

***If you only have access to traditionally jacketed load data, we recommend a starting powder charge directly between the listed minimum and maximum load, and you may use published load data found in reputable reloading manuals.

http://www.rainierballistics.com/loaddata.php

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimSr
I'm not familiar with Lee data, and I don't usually see it in the gun stores which makes me wonder how extensive it is.
Lee actually doesn't publish their own data, they borrow it from the Free powder manufacturers load data, and then sell it. It is also often times very old and outdated. The same data only New and updated data can be found for free and any of the powder manufactures/distributors web sites.
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Old March 30, 2014, 12:18 PM   #8
jpeschken
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You're right.

I thought about it after what I said about powder manufacturers having the best motivation to publish complete data. As you pointed out, it seems like the bullet manufacturers could focus on powders to use with their bullets.

Then, i went to both the Berry's and Ranier sites, and all they have is general advice to load to lead or mid-range jacketed specs. That sort of leaves me with the limited choices in my Lee's book. Time to see if powder manufacturers have more.

Last edited by jpeschken; March 30, 2014 at 12:28 PM.
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Old March 30, 2014, 01:05 PM   #9
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N320 is precisely what I use with my .38Spl and I have also used it for a .44Spl load.

Unlike the OP, I had next to no data for the bullets I use for my .38, which also happen to be 125gr plated TC bullets by H&N. I too sort of extrapolated likely min-max values and started low and worked up.

I ended up with two loads both making about 780fps from my 2" snub: 5.3gr N320, standard small pistol primers and a half turn crimp with a Lee FCD. The second was 4.8gr and small mag primers. Otherwise they were the same specs.

Naturally I would recommend the OP do a work up of his/her own loads rather than divnig straight in with mine, but I hope it shows what N320 can do.
It is a good powder and just as well as it is ll I can get here!

HTH.
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Old March 30, 2014, 02:05 PM   #10
jpeschken
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I'm the OP. Thanks to all for the discussion. I think I have a lot better idea about this whole load table thing. I have found the powder manufacturer's sites to be the most helpful, along with the advice to load my plated bullets to lead specs up to at most the middle of the jacketed specs.

As a side note, is there a powder source online anyone likes? The cupboard is pretty bare at my local stores. It looks like Brownell's and Midway have some stuff, but I'm wondering if there are better sources. I imagine I get clobbered on shipping for powder, but if it's all I can find ...
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Old March 30, 2014, 02:24 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpeschken
I have found the powder manufacturer's sites to be the most helpful, along with the advice to load my plated bullets to lead specs up to at most the middle of the jacketed specs.
I don't think you read the links I posted correctly.

Both of them say to "Start" with mid-range jacketed data, not to stop there.
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Old March 30, 2014, 02:57 PM   #12
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Data for plated bullets is somewhat scarce, and you should use that (if any) which comes from the bullet maker, because all plated bullets are not the same.

This is one of the reasons I don't use plated bullets.
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Old March 30, 2014, 06:27 PM   #13
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Before you buy bullets and powder match them up with load data already available to you to save you many headaches if possible. Pick your powder then order the bullets as they are to be had and powder for pistols is a little scarce.
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