C&R sale question

carguychris · February 19, 2009, 11:15 AM

Howdy all,

I tend to be pretty good about reading and understanding legal regulations, but I have a question about C&R purchases that has me stumped.

Say that a hypothetical C&R licensee wants a couple of Mosin-Nagant M91/30s, and notices that some of the mail order houses offer discounts if he or she purchases 5 or more. However, this licensee doesn't want 5 rifles, he or she wants 2-3, but he or she has several buddies who are interested in having an M91/30. If that doesn't work out, there's a gun show coming up shortly, and this licensee lives in the glorious state of Texas, which has very few state-imposed restrictions on private sales.

Can this licensee buy 5 rifles and immediately sell them, assuming he/she logs them out in accordance to the regulations? Let's say that he/she will sell them for exactly the original purchase price, thereby assuring that he/she can't be accused of "operating a business".

Is this legit?

Thanks!

DoctorXring · February 19, 2009, 11:29 AM

.

I see no problem with what you describe.

Part of enhancing a collection is "culling". I have
done much of it over the years.

Just don't set up a table at a gunshow or start
advertising. Keep your records straight on the
disposition side and you will be fine.

dxr

.

noelf2 · February 19, 2009, 09:03 PM

One can't buy guns for the purpose of selling / giving them to friends (called a straw purchase) but one can buy 5 mosins, pick out the ones that are best for his/her collection, and cull the rest to recoup money to perhaps improve his/her collection. Just make sure your focus and intent is on the "collection" and not supplying guns to friends.

johnwilliamson062 · February 19, 2009, 10:02 PM

What Noelf said. You have to take the rifles that are best for yourself to improve your collection. I am thinking about doing the same with some 1916 Spanish Mausers.

carguychris · February 20, 2009, 09:34 AM

It's not me. It's a hypothetical third party.

James K · February 20, 2009, 03:26 PM

OK, let me play hypothetical BATFE agent.

Here is a guy who buys five rifles, with the clear intent of selling all but one. He may have told his buddies that he will get them rifles on his license and may have even taken a deposit. His intent was obviously to buy for the purpose of resale, and he even had his customers lined up. Even if he made no real money on the deal, I think I can make a case that he is an unlicensed dealer, in spite of his claims that he was "culling" his collection.

Now here is another guy who buys five rifles, and then later sells one or more over a period of several months or a year, I probably won't worry as long as he kept the proper records. It would be hard to prove purchase with intent to sell or that he derived any substantial income from the transactions.

One more point, though. If a person buys five handguns under his C&R license, sells four and all four turn up at crime scenes a week later, I just might not buy a "culling the collection" excuse. I will try to nail the guy now before any more of his "collection" turns up in the hands of bad guys.

Just hypothetical, of course.

Jim

February 19, 2009, 11:15 AM	#1
carguychris Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2007 Location: Richardson, TX Posts: 7,523	C&R sale question Howdy all, I tend to be pretty good about reading and understanding legal regulations, but I have a question about C&R purchases that has me stumped. Say that a hypothetical C&R licensee wants a couple of Mosin-Nagant M91/30s, and notices that some of the mail order houses offer discounts if he or she purchases 5 or more. However, this licensee doesn't want 5 rifles, he or she wants 2-3, but he or she has several buddies who are interested in having an M91/30. If that doesn't work out, there's a gun show coming up shortly, and this licensee lives in the glorious state of Texas, which has very few state-imposed restrictions on private sales. Can this licensee buy 5 rifles and immediately sell them, assuming he/she logs them out in accordance to the regulations? Let's say that he/she will sell them for exactly the original purchase price, thereby assuring that he/she can't be accused of "operating a business". Is this legit? Thanks! __________________ "Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules... MARK IT ZERO!!" - Walter Sobchak

February 19, 2009, 09:03 PM	#3
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	One can't buy guns for the purpose of selling / giving them to friends (called a straw purchase) but one can buy 5 mosins, pick out the ones that are best for his/her collection, and cull the rest to recoup money to perhaps improve his/her collection. Just make sure your focus and intent is on the "collection" and not supplying guns to friends. __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

February 20, 2009, 09:34 AM	#5
carguychris Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2007 Location: Richardson, TX Posts: 7,523	It's not me. It's a hypothetical third party. __________________ "Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules... MARK IT ZERO!!" - Walter Sobchak

February 19, 2009, 11:29 AM	#2
DoctorXring Senior Member Join Date: April 30, 2002 Location: The Republic of Texas Posts: 392	. I see no problem with what you describe. Part of enhancing a collection is "culling". I have done much of it over the years. Just don't set up a table at a gunshow or start advertising. Keep your records straight on the disposition side and you will be fine. dxr .

February 19, 2009, 10:02 PM	#4
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	What Noelf said. You have to take the rifles that are best for yourself to improve your collection. I am thinking about doing the same with some 1916 Spanish Mausers.

February 20, 2009, 03:26 PM	#6
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	OK, let me play hypothetical BATFE agent. Here is a guy who buys five rifles, with the clear intent of selling all but one. He may have told his buddies that he will get them rifles on his license and may have even taken a deposit. His intent was obviously to buy for the purpose of resale, and he even had his customers lined up. Even if he made no real money on the deal, I think I can make a case that he is an unlicensed dealer, in spite of his claims that he was "culling" his collection. Now here is another guy who buys five rifles, and then later sells one or more over a period of several months or a year, I probably won't worry as long as he kept the proper records. It would be hard to prove purchase with intent to sell or that he derived any substantial income from the transactions. One more point, though. If a person buys five handguns under his C&R license, sells four and all four turn up at crime scenes a week later, I just might not buy a "culling the collection" excuse. I will try to nail the guy now before any more of his "collection" turns up in the hands of bad guys. Just hypothetical, of course. Jim