Practice Ammo & Carry Ammo

FS2K · February 23, 2007, 05:06 PM

I did a quick search and didn't find anything on this, so here goes. I have read that you should always practice with the same exact ammunition that you carry several times from several different resources, and perhaps in a perfect world this practice would be a viable thing to do. But this isn't a perfect world, and premier ammunition costs a lot of money, especially compared to FMJ or "Ball" ammo.

How many of you believe in this? That, in order for you to become familiar with how your weapon handles you should only use the ammunition that you intend to carry your weapon with?

Quite honestly I can't see someone shooting 200 rounds of primo ammunition at paper targets. At .80 cents + per shot for some bullets that's one heck of an expensive day at the range. I believe that you should shoot your gun with the bullets you carry it with every once in awhile, but like I said, I can't see spending that much money on premium rounds to use to shoot paper.

Say I carry 147gr hollow points in my everyday gun, would it be that much of a stretch to use 147gr FMJ's to practice with? I know the power of the charge may be different from one round to the next and that this would change the handling characteristics of your weapon, but if they were pretty close in power, is practicing with FMJ's still a foolish practice? Or how about the other way around? What about choosing the premier ammo that is closest to what you shoot the most?

What do you think?

waynedm · February 23, 2007, 05:34 PM

I practice with normal Winchester 100 pack 115 grain FMJ. I'm making the switch over to 147 grain FMJ for carry. To hell with hollow points.

DanV1317 · February 23, 2007, 06:03 PM

Just throw a few of your carry ammo through the gun. As long as the practice ammo you're shooting is going somewhat the same FPS as your carry ammo, the gun will not handle much different. Just dont go from like WWB to corbon DPX or something like that. If the sights are on when you pull the trigger, it doesn't matter what kind of recoil there is though.

CrustyFN · February 23, 2007, 06:15 PM

I carry personal protection ammo and the rest of the time I shoot reloads. I feel that I am comfortable with my gun and shoot it in competition so if the time ever came I would have no problem with the other ammo. Just make sure you shoot some of the self defence ammo in your carry gun so you know it will cycle and shoot OK.
Rusty

oldbillthundercheif · February 23, 2007, 06:55 PM

I shoot at least one magazine of my carry ammo every time I go to the range, but practice with cheap FMJ the rest of the time.

I almost always use Fiocchi ammo for my practice, though. It is loaded spicy enough to give you pretty much the same "feel" as hot personal defense ammunition. It costs a buck or two more than walmart WWB, but it's well worth the expense.

Lurper · February 23, 2007, 07:13 PM

I used to carry STHP, Black Talon etc. I also used to advocate not carrying reloads for self-defense. Perhaps I'm just getting too old to care or maybe just lazy. I practice with 178gr SWC and that is also what I carry in my carry gun. I really must be getting old, I don't remember the exact powder charge - I load on a Dillon 1050 so it is not often that I measure it - but it is in the 5.6 -5.9 gr range using Bullseye. The only upside of carrying what I practice with is that I know exactly where it hits at any range out to 50 yards. When I carried other ammo, I always had to make sure I knew if it shot high or low. One less thing to worry about now, but I may raise my liability by carrying reloads.

Topthis · February 23, 2007, 07:19 PM

Thousands and thousands of 115gr FMJ's through my guns!! Every so often I will shoot some of the 147gr JHP's, 124gr JHP's and 124 Flat Points through my 9mm's to make sure that they feed right etc. I have not noticed any difference in the feel or the accuracy in any of them!!! I feel confident that I will be as deadly with my JPH's as I would with my FMJ's, in fact, I wouldn't feel less secure if I only had magazines filled with 115gr FJM's from Wally World. I am one of those nutcases that believes that it is Shot Placement that makes the MOST difference, not a magic weight or caliber...but that's just me.
Forgot to add...I do this with my .45 too...and feel the exact same way, oh...and my .40's.

revjen45 · February 23, 2007, 08:27 PM

When I bought my Steyr S9 I bought a box of 124 gr Hydra-shok (IIRC) and they shot low and to one side (after 3 years I don't remember exactly which side). Later on I tried 115 gr Rem and 147 gr WWB, and they shot to POA. I am carrying the 147 gr, have yet to try other 124 gr loads. The sight shape made simple file adjustment impractical. What I use hits where I aim- don't know whether 147 gr is a better stopper than 115 gr, but shot placement is probably more important than the ammo. BTW, all functioned perfectly.

Mannlicher · February 23, 2007, 08:32 PM

I stick with 230 grain ball for practice in my 1911 pistols. I carry 230 grian HydraShock. They shoot close enough to each other that I don't think it makes much difference.
Every so often, I shoot up the carry ammo.

samsmix · February 23, 2007, 08:33 PM

Waynedm,

Are you just pushin' buttons? You do remember that the 9mm made it's bad reputation on a diet of ball ammo, right? Still, free country...your call.

....Oh! Maybe HPs are not kosher for carry in your state.

Don Lu · February 23, 2007, 08:35 PM

I also always practice w/WWB. When I buy new self defense rounds I buy 2 boxes..one to test and one to carry. I agree practicing w/ pow'rball or gold dots can get very expensive, but I do cylce some just to make sure my guns like them

James K · February 23, 2007, 09:08 PM

One fellow posted that he carried premium ammo that he never fired in practice because it was too expensive. Some nasty-minded person (me) asked him how he knew it worked. He tried it and found that the premium stuff he had been betting his life on jammed 3-4 rounds out of a magazine. He had had no trouble with the cheap practice ammo.

So use two different kinds of ammo if you want, but use enough of the high priced stuff to be sure it works in your gun and with your carry magazines.

Jim

jrothWA · February 28, 2007, 02:23 AM

to duplicate the carry ammo.
used the hornady 124gr XTP's & FMJ-FP's in 9mm
the 140gr XTP's in .38Spl & .357Mag.
230gr XTP's & FMJ_FP in .45ACP
Have no problem switching from carry to practice ammo.

Duplicate velocity (as close as possible and POI)

FS2K · February 28, 2007, 05:42 AM

You may have just saved that fella's life. I hope he thanked you for such (basic) & GREAT advice!

AK103K · February 28, 2007, 07:56 AM

Quote:

That's why I reload...

to duplicate the carry ammo.
used the hornady 124gr XTP's & FMJ-FP's in 9mm
the 140gr XTP's in .38Spl & .357Mag.
230gr XTP's & FMJ_FP in .45ACP
Have no problem switching from carry to practice ammo.

Duplicate velocity (as close as possible and POI)

I agree. If I cant pretty closely duplicate what I carry power wise with cheaper factory, I reload to do it.

I think its especially important if you shoot any gun that reacts differently to different ammo. A lightweight 2" .357 shooting .38 wadcutters in practice will react "slightly" different than it does with hot defensive loads. Same goes for the autos.

If it really didnt matter, then all you should have to practice with is a .22.

hceptj · February 28, 2007, 07:58 AM

What Jim Keenan says has been my rule of thumb and what I tell friends/etc. that get into shooting or decide to CCW.

Don P · February 28, 2007, 09:38 AM

I'm no expert on this and this is just my thought on the subject. The experts and members all talk about shot placement as being the most effective way to put a end to the situation. The ammo company's are making a fortune on 20 round boxs of ammo that THEY state as being the best for self defence because of being hollow points. I practice with and carry hard ball in all my carry pistols. 45 FMJ will leave a nice big hole, break bone, and IMO cause enough damage, plus what many have stated with the short barrel carry guns DO hollow points expand like they say they do? What about winter clothing? Just my .2 worth.

AK103K · February 28, 2007, 10:08 AM

Theres no doubt that shot placement is key, but why not increase your odds in a near miss with a bullet that is now near double the caliber, sprouting all sorts of sharp edges and disrupting more of what it passes through. If your shooting a HP of the same weight as the ball round, your no worse off if it for some reason doesnt expand, and ahead when it usually does.

Most commercial ball is downloaded for the older guns that often use it, so you loose even more. If I had to choose something other than a good expanding bullet, I'd choose a SWC type bullet, as it does more damage and tends to grab the bone it comes in contact with instead of glancing off like ball. About the only advantage I see ball having is reliable function, and maybe deeper penetration in smaller caliber guns.

Use what your comfortable with. I'm more concerned with equivalent power and how the gun acts during practice and actual use with carry ammo than bullet type, as I figure if I can quickly, reliably and repeatably, put the round right where I'm looking its going to work, regardless what the bullet does going in. If it does get bigger and nastier as it goes, all the better.

markj · February 28, 2007, 05:01 PM

Quote:

You do remember that the 9mm made it's bad reputation on a diet of ball ammo,

I shoot FMJ most of the time and would not even think about using it in a carry weapon. 9mm or my .45s

I use a sjsn? in my .357 semi jacketed soft nose 180gr I belive.

I dont give a rats butt on expansion as I am going to shoot the guy 15 times or so if in 9mm or 8 times in .45 or 6 times in .357 depending on how I feel

I really do not think I will ever be in any confrontation, I try to avoid this stuff. Must be working as I havent had any kind of confrontation since we sold the bars. Hmmm, something about that alchohol, makes mice into lions

You may carry what you wish, and I will do the same, see everyone can be happy.

rantingredneck · February 28, 2007, 05:11 PM

I used to buy the +P whizbang JHP's for my 9mm then I started just carrying and shooting 115gr WWB and UMC JHP's. They're accurate and reliable in my P89 and I'll take placement and reliability over mostly hypothetical performance differences any day. When I got my .45 recently I posted a thread here asking for ammo advice and tried out some of the suggestions (Hornady TAP, Hordady Custom, etc.) I also shot some Rem 230 gr. UMC JHP's. Guess which shot the best? I now carry UMC JHP's in it and I get them for 32.00 per 100 at Wally World. I shoot as much of it as I shoot FMJ when I shoot it.

allenomics · February 28, 2007, 09:06 PM

I'd suggest that you practice with range ammo, because it is less expensive, allowing you to fire more rounds, making you a better, more accurate, seasoned shooter. Fire one magazine of the really good stuff, maybe once every 10-12 times you visit the range.

Jkwas · March 1, 2007, 10:25 AM

I shoot practice ammo that mimics my carry ammo. Just have to experiment. It's definately wise to practice with carry ammo occasionally to make sure it functions in your gun and is of good quality.

James K · March 3, 2007, 09:17 PM

I have not posted this for a while, but it is amusing and maybe pertinent:

-----------------------------------

It was this way, Pete...

Like you probably know already, I read Pistolman magazine and really think it is the greatest, so I try to follow all the good advice they give on combat shooting. They have a lot of real experts who really know their sh... I mean, stuff, let me tell you.

Well I got all the equipment those guys say you need to be a great combat shooter, and I practiced a lot, then I got a concealed weapons license, and I felt ready to take on the world.

Maybe you don't think much of that, I mean the business you're in. Oh, you say you used to carry concealed yourself? I guess I remember reading about that - your boss really didn't care for the idea, did he? But I guess that is another story.

Anyway, one day - or rather evening - I was downtown in the city, and I see this young guy coming along and he looked like one of those punks, I mean really bad, and he walked up to me, or really sort of swaggered, like they do, and said, "Give it up man, all of it." Well he didn't even have a weapon showing, but I could see the bulge in his jacket, so I knew he was armed, so I did all the things I read in Pistolman about combat shooting.

First, I put on my custom shooting glasses ($300 from See-em, Inc., Blotz, GA) and then my custom fitted ear protectors with the smart circuitry that blocks the sound of shots but lets you hear a pin drop at 200 yards ($500 from Muff-em, Inc., Klotz, NM). Then I pulled down my Pistolman cap with the gold braid. Then I had a problem because I didn't know whether to use an isosceles stance or a Weaver stance. Finally, I decided on the isosceles stance, and assumed a perfect position.

Then I drew my custom super accurized .45 ($6000 from Slick-em, Inc., Flotz, AZ) from its custom made, perfectly fitted holster ($700 from Draw-em, Glotz, IL). Of course I was using Super Gold ammo, guaranteed to expand to 10 times the original caliber ($100 a box from Expand-em, Wotz, GA). And I took a perfect two-hand hold, facing the punk squarely, and got ready to fire.

One handed? No, I never heard of shooting a handgun with one hand - I never saw anybody in Pistolman do that! Standing? Of course, I was standing, and right out in the open, too. I could have maybe ducked behind a car or a building, or even dodged to one side, but that wouldn't be macho and in Pistolman, no one ever takes cover. Pistolman readers aren't cowards, no sir!

Well, to make a long story short, the punk pulled out a cheap, chrome-plated Yorkin .380 ($39.95 from Throw-up, Inc., Plotz, CA) and put three slugs in my head, and so, here I am. And he didn't even use the proper stance! I guess he doesn't read Pistolman, because he didn't play by the rules and you just can't respect that kind of guy, no way!

But I don't know what I did wrong, Pete. I followed every rule I saw in Pistolman about combat shooting. I just don't understand.

You say that maybe I was a little too eager to get in a shootout, but defending yourself is OK? So I can go in now? Thanks a lot, Pete, I mean Saint Peter.

By the way, is there a combat range up here? And can I get Pistolman forwarded? It's really a great magazine.

Jim

go_bang · March 3, 2007, 09:50 PM

Jim, that story is exactly the kind of thing that ran through my mind everytime I read one of Massad's columns.

But seriously, I've always used practice ammo that was cheap but ballistically similar to my carry ammo. Same bullet weight and velocity, within a 100 FPS or so. For the carry ammo, once I settled on something and ran enough through that I was confident that it would feed and extract without issue, the only time I would practice with carry ammo was to empty the magazine or cylinder of whatever carry ammo was in it, complete my range session with the practice ammo, and then reload with the carry ammo before leaving.

Rifleman 173 · September 1, 2007, 12:51 PM

What my department did was chronograph two types of ammo. One type was ball for practice and the other was hollowpoint for duty. What we figured out was that the overwhelming majority of police shootings occur at a distance of 7 feet or less. Because of this fact, we did our chronographing at 20 feet. If the speed of the two bullets were very close to the same, within 50 FPS or so, then we'd work with those two loads. Ballistically speaking, this concept worked out really good for us. Sometimes it did take a bit of searching to get two types of matching ammo that would work for us but it paid off when we ended up testifying in court about an officer involved shooting.

February 23, 2007, 05:06 PM	#1
FS2K Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2006 Posts: 1,853	Practice Ammo & Carry Ammo I did a quick search and didn't find anything on this, so here goes. I have read that you should always practice with the same exact ammunition that you carry several times from several different resources, and perhaps in a perfect world this practice would be a viable thing to do. But this isn't a perfect world, and premier ammunition costs a lot of money, especially compared to FMJ or "Ball" ammo. How many of you believe in this? That, in order for you to become familiar with how your weapon handles you should only use the ammunition that you intend to carry your weapon with? Quite honestly I can't see someone shooting 200 rounds of primo ammunition at paper targets. At .80 cents + per shot for some bullets that's one heck of an expensive day at the range. I believe that you should shoot your gun with the bullets you carry it with every once in awhile, but like I said, I can't see spending that much money on premium rounds to use to shoot paper. Say I carry 147gr hollow points in my everyday gun, would it be that much of a stretch to use 147gr FMJ's to practice with? I know the power of the charge may be different from one round to the next and that this would change the handling characteristics of your weapon, but if they were pretty close in power, is practicing with FMJ's still a foolish practice? Or how about the other way around? What about choosing the premier ammo that is closest to what you shoot the most? What do you think? __________________ Just a big fan of guns.

February 23, 2007, 06:15 PM	#4
CrustyFN Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2006 Location: West Virginia Posts: 2,258	I carry personal protection ammo and the rest of the time I shoot reloads. I feel that I am comfortable with my gun and shoot it in competition so if the time ever came I would have no problem with the other ammo. Just make sure you shoot some of the self defence ammo in your carry gun so you know it will cycle and shoot OK. Rusty __________________ I don't ever remember being absent minded.

February 23, 2007, 08:32 PM	#9
Mannlicher Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2001 Location: North Central Florida & Miami Posts: 3,209	I stick with 230 grain ball for practice in my 1911 pistols. I carry 230 grian HydraShock. They shoot close enough to each other that I don't think it makes much difference. Every so often, I shoot up the carry ammo. __________________ Nemo Me Impune Lacesset "The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.".........Ronald Reagan

February 23, 2007, 08:33 PM	#10
samsmix Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2006 Location: Montana (Montucky?) Posts: 1,273	Waynedm, Are you just pushin' buttons? You do remember that the 9mm made it's bad reputation on a diet of ball ammo, right? Still, free country...your call. ....Oh! Maybe HPs are not kosher for carry in your state. __________________ You'll probably never NEED a gun. I hope you never do. But IF you do, you will need it worse than anything you've ever needed in your life. IF we're not supposed to eat animals, howcome God made 'em outta meat?

February 23, 2007, 08:35 PM	#11
Don Lu Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2006 Location: Georgia Posts: 271	I also always practice w/WWB. When I buy new self defense rounds I buy 2 boxes..one to test and one to carry. I agree practicing w/ pow'rball or gold dots can get very expensive, but I do cylce some just to make sure my guns like them __________________ GLOCK 23,Smith & Wesson New 520,Tuarus 651,Taurus 608,Taurus PT92, Astra A-75,CZ-52,East German Makarov,Mossberg 835 Ulti Mag, Remington 870 Express Magnum

February 23, 2007, 05:34 PM	#2
waynedm Junior member Join Date: January 31, 2007 Location: Minnesota Posts: 458	I practice with normal Winchester 100 pack 115 grain FMJ. I'm making the switch over to 147 grain FMJ for carry. To hell with hollow points.

February 23, 2007, 06:03 PM	#3
DanV1317 Senior Member Join Date: August 27, 2004 Posts: 331	Just throw a few of your carry ammo through the gun. As long as the practice ammo you're shooting is going somewhat the same FPS as your carry ammo, the gun will not handle much different. Just dont go from like WWB to corbon DPX or something like that. If the sights are on when you pull the trigger, it doesn't matter what kind of recoil there is though.

February 23, 2007, 06:55 PM	#5
oldbillthundercheif Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2006 Location: New Orleans Posts: 2,450	I shoot at least one magazine of my carry ammo every time I go to the range, but practice with cheap FMJ the rest of the time. I almost always use Fiocchi ammo for my practice, though. It is loaded spicy enough to give you pretty much the same "feel" as hot personal defense ammunition. It costs a buck or two more than walmart WWB, but it's well worth the expense.

February 23, 2007, 07:13 PM	#6
Lurper Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2006 Posts: 943	I used to carry STHP, Black Talon etc. I also used to advocate not carrying reloads for self-defense. Perhaps I'm just getting too old to care or maybe just lazy. I practice with 178gr SWC and that is also what I carry in my carry gun. I really must be getting old, I don't remember the exact powder charge - I load on a Dillon 1050 so it is not often that I measure it - but it is in the 5.6 -5.9 gr range using Bullseye. The only upside of carrying what I practice with is that I know exactly where it hits at any range out to 50 yards. When I carried other ammo, I always had to make sure I knew if it shot high or low. One less thing to worry about now, but I may raise my liability by carrying reloads.

February 23, 2007, 07:19 PM	#7
Topthis Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2005 Posts: 863	Thousands and thousands of 115gr FMJ's through my guns!! Every so often I will shoot some of the 147gr JHP's, 124gr JHP's and 124 Flat Points through my 9mm's to make sure that they feed right etc. I have not noticed any difference in the feel or the accuracy in any of them!!! I feel confident that I will be as deadly with my JPH's as I would with my FMJ's, in fact, I wouldn't feel less secure if I only had magazines filled with 115gr FJM's from Wally World. I am one of those nutcases that believes that it is Shot Placement that makes the MOST difference, not a magic weight or caliber...but that's just me. Forgot to add...I do this with my .45 too...and feel the exact same way, oh...and my .40's.

February 23, 2007, 08:27 PM	#8
revjen45 Junior member Join Date: May 7, 2006 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 626	When I bought my Steyr S9 I bought a box of 124 gr Hydra-shok (IIRC) and they shot low and to one side (after 3 years I don't remember exactly which side). Later on I tried 115 gr Rem and 147 gr WWB, and they shot to POA. I am carrying the 147 gr, have yet to try other 124 gr loads. The sight shape made simple file adjustment impractical. What I use hits where I aim- don't know whether 147 gr is a better stopper than 115 gr, but shot placement is probably more important than the ammo. BTW, all functioned perfectly.

February 23, 2007, 09:08 PM	#12
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	One fellow posted that he carried premium ammo that he never fired in practice because it was too expensive. Some nasty-minded person (me) asked him how he knew it worked. He tried it and found that the premium stuff he had been betting his life on jammed 3-4 rounds out of a magazine. He had had no trouble with the cheap practice ammo. So use two different kinds of ammo if you want, but use enough of the high priced stuff to be sure it works in your gun and with your carry magazines. Jim

February 28, 2007, 02:23 AM	#13
jrothWA Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2006 Posts: 2,519	That's why I reload... to duplicate the carry ammo. used the hornady 124gr XTP's & FMJ-FP's in 9mm the 140gr XTP's in .38Spl & .357Mag. 230gr XTP's & FMJ_FP in .45ACP Have no problem switching from carry to practice ammo. Duplicate velocity (as close as possible and POI)

February 28, 2007, 05:42 AM	#14
FS2K Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2006 Posts: 1,853	Jim Keenan You may have just saved that fella's life. I hope he thanked you for such (basic) & GREAT advice! __________________ Just a big fan of guns.

February 28, 2007, 07:58 AM	#16
hceptj Junior Member Join Date: January 21, 2007 Posts: 11	What Jim Keenan says has been my rule of thumb and what I tell friends/etc. that get into shooting or decide to CCW.

February 28, 2007, 09:38 AM	#17
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	Ammo I'm no expert on this and this is just my thought on the subject. The experts and members all talk about shot placement as being the most effective way to put a end to the situation. The ammo company's are making a fortune on 20 round boxs of ammo that THEY state as being the best for self defence because of being hollow points. I practice with and carry hard ball in all my carry pistols. 45 FMJ will leave a nice big hole, break bone, and IMO cause enough damage, plus what many have stated with the short barrel carry guns DO hollow points expand like they say they do? What about winter clothing? Just my .2 worth. __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

February 28, 2007, 10:08 AM	#18
AK103K Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2001 Posts: 10,223	Theres no doubt that shot placement is key, but why not increase your odds in a near miss with a bullet that is now near double the caliber, sprouting all sorts of sharp edges and disrupting more of what it passes through. If your shooting a HP of the same weight as the ball round, your no worse off if it for some reason doesnt expand, and ahead when it usually does. Most commercial ball is downloaded for the older guns that often use it, so you loose even more. If I had to choose something other than a good expanding bullet, I'd choose a SWC type bullet, as it does more damage and tends to grab the bone it comes in contact with instead of glancing off like ball. About the only advantage I see ball having is reliable function, and maybe deeper penetration in smaller caliber guns. Use what your comfortable with. I'm more concerned with equivalent power and how the gun acts during practice and actual use with carry ammo than bullet type, as I figure if I can quickly, reliably and repeatably, put the round right where I'm looking its going to work, regardless what the bullet does going in. If it does get bigger and nastier as it goes, all the better.

February 28, 2007, 05:11 PM	#20
rantingredneck Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 4,728	I used to buy the +P whizbang JHP's for my 9mm then I started just carrying and shooting 115gr WWB and UMC JHP's. They're accurate and reliable in my P89 and I'll take placement and reliability over mostly hypothetical performance differences any day. When I got my .45 recently I posted a thread here asking for ammo advice and tried out some of the suggestions (Hornady TAP, Hordady Custom, etc.) I also shot some Rem 230 gr. UMC JHP's. Guess which shot the best? I now carry UMC JHP's in it and I get them for 32.00 per 100 at Wally World. I shoot as much of it as I shoot FMJ when I shoot it. __________________ NRA Member NC Hunter's Education Instructor PCCA Member (What's PCCA you ask? <- Check the link)

February 28, 2007, 09:06 PM	#21
allenomics Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2007 Posts: 1,536	I'd suggest that you practice with range ammo, because it is less expensive, allowing you to fire more rounds, making you a better, more accurate, seasoned shooter. Fire one magazine of the really good stuff, maybe once every 10-12 times you visit the range. __________________ NRA Benefactor Life Member Knowledge is not power. Applied knowledge is power!

March 1, 2007, 10:25 AM	#22
Jkwas Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2005 Location: Mouth of the Rat, Florida Posts: 1,778	I shoot practice ammo that mimics my carry ammo. Just have to experiment. It's definately wise to practice with carry ammo occasionally to make sure it functions in your gun and is of good quality. __________________ I grew up in New Jersey, but later moved to Florida and made a complete recovery. Keltec: The BIC lighter of handguns http://jkwasblog.blogspot.com/

March 3, 2007, 09:17 PM	#23
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I have not posted this for a while, but it is amusing and maybe pertinent: ----------------------------------- It was this way, Pete... Like you probably know already, I read Pistolman magazine and really think it is the greatest, so I try to follow all the good advice they give on combat shooting. They have a lot of real experts who really know their sh... I mean, stuff, let me tell you. Well I got all the equipment those guys say you need to be a great combat shooter, and I practiced a lot, then I got a concealed weapons license, and I felt ready to take on the world. Maybe you don't think much of that, I mean the business you're in. Oh, you say you used to carry concealed yourself? I guess I remember reading about that - your boss really didn't care for the idea, did he? But I guess that is another story. Anyway, one day - or rather evening - I was downtown in the city, and I see this young guy coming along and he looked like one of those punks, I mean really bad, and he walked up to me, or really sort of swaggered, like they do, and said, "Give it up man, all of it." Well he didn't even have a weapon showing, but I could see the bulge in his jacket, so I knew he was armed, so I did all the things I read in Pistolman about combat shooting. First, I put on my custom shooting glasses ($300 from See-em, Inc., Blotz, GA) and then my custom fitted ear protectors with the smart circuitry that blocks the sound of shots but lets you hear a pin drop at 200 yards ($500 from Muff-em, Inc., Klotz, NM). Then I pulled down my Pistolman cap with the gold braid. Then I had a problem because I didn't know whether to use an isosceles stance or a Weaver stance. Finally, I decided on the isosceles stance, and assumed a perfect position. Then I drew my custom super accurized .45 ($6000 from Slick-em, Inc., Flotz, AZ) from its custom made, perfectly fitted holster ($700 from Draw-em, Glotz, IL). Of course I was using Super Gold ammo, guaranteed to expand to 10 times the original caliber ($100 a box from Expand-em, Wotz, GA). And I took a perfect two-hand hold, facing the punk squarely, and got ready to fire. One handed? No, I never heard of shooting a handgun with one hand - I never saw anybody in Pistolman do that! Standing? Of course, I was standing, and right out in the open, too. I could have maybe ducked behind a car or a building, or even dodged to one side, but that wouldn't be macho and in Pistolman, no one ever takes cover. Pistolman readers aren't cowards, no sir! Well, to make a long story short, the punk pulled out a cheap, chrome-plated Yorkin .380 ($39.95 from Throw-up, Inc., Plotz, CA) and put three slugs in my head, and so, here I am. And he didn't even use the proper stance! I guess he doesn't read Pistolman, because he didn't play by the rules and you just can't respect that kind of guy, no way! But I don't know what I did wrong, Pete. I followed every rule I saw in Pistolman about combat shooting. I just don't understand. You say that maybe I was a little too eager to get in a shootout, but defending yourself is OK? So I can go in now? Thanks a lot, Pete, I mean Saint Peter. By the way, is there a combat range up here? And can I get Pistolman forwarded? It's really a great magazine. Jim

March 3, 2007, 09:50 PM	#24
go_bang Member Join Date: November 1, 2006 Posts: 33	Jim, that story is exactly the kind of thing that ran through my mind everytime I read one of Massad's columns. But seriously, I've always used practice ammo that was cheap but ballistically similar to my carry ammo. Same bullet weight and velocity, within a 100 FPS or so. For the carry ammo, once I settled on something and ran enough through that I was confident that it would feed and extract without issue, the only time I would practice with carry ammo was to empty the magazine or cylinder of whatever carry ammo was in it, complete my range session with the practice ammo, and then reload with the carry ammo before leaving.

September 1, 2007, 12:51 PM	#25
Rifleman 173 Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 2007 Location: Central Illinois Posts: 589	What my department did was chronograph two types of ammo. One type was ball for practice and the other was hollowpoint for duty. What we figured out was that the overwhelming majority of police shootings occur at a distance of 7 feet or less. Because of this fact, we did our chronographing at 20 feet. If the speed of the two bullets were very close to the same, within 50 FPS or so, then we'd work with those two loads. Ballistically speaking, this concept worked out really good for us. Sometimes it did take a bit of searching to get two types of matching ammo that would work for us but it paid off when we ended up testifying in court about an officer involved shooting.