ar15 to m4a1 conversion (completely legal)

C_GS_W · June 11, 2012, 07:51 PM

I currently have my sot so i can legally manufacture fully automatic weapons (i just thought i should start out with that). My question is about converting a an ar15 to a m4a1. By this i mean converting it to basically what i had when i was in the marines. I want it to be about the exact same thing. I have a cnc mill so manufacturing parts is not a problem. If you don't feel comfortable posting on a public forum feel free to pm me, or pm me and ask for my email and we can talk through email.

David Hineline · June 11, 2012, 09:51 PM

You can buy all the parts you need, no need for a cnc mill unless you are modifiying many receivers to select fire as it will take longer to write the code that it takes to manually mill out one receiver.

house · July 24, 2012, 01:06 PM

i am interested in this as well. does any one have dimenshions of what needs to be millied out in the frame? i as well have 07/sot3/sot2 ffl. does the m16 jig that guides you were to drill the sear hole tell you how much milling needs to be done?

David Hineline · July 24, 2012, 04:00 PM

No

house · July 24, 2012, 04:46 PM

ok

Skans · July 27, 2012, 07:33 AM

Quote:

I currently have my sot so i can legally manufacture fully automatic weapons

If you have your SOT license I think you would already know how to do this simple conversion.

Sport45 · July 27, 2012, 08:25 AM

I don't know much about the law so I have to ask. Who can you legally manufacture fully automatic weapons for, yourself?

Willie Lowman · July 27, 2012, 08:39 AM

Skans, a friend of mine is a SOT. He is well versed in HK guns but knows nothing about AR/M16 type guns. I have told him for the last two years that he should make a postsample M16 but he doesn't know where to drill or how much material to mill out.

Having a licence to do something doesn't mean you know how it is done.

Skans · July 27, 2012, 11:59 AM

Fair enough, Willie - I see your point.

David Hineline · July 28, 2012, 02:50 AM

Sport. With his manuf. license and SOT he can manuf. machineguns for his companies inventory for sale to US based Government Agencies or Police for department use, or for sale to other LE firearms dealers for sale to govment. If he has done the paperwork for exportation he could export machineguns to agents of foreign governments.

Up until 1986 when President Regan the favorite Repulican ever signed the Machinegun Ban into law, these machineguns could have been sold in the US to individuals, but the 1986 ban makes them available for qualified government agencies and export only.

All other NFA firearms Silencers, Sawed off shotguns, Short barrel rifles, Destructive devices, like mortar and artillary, and Any Other Weapons are allowed to be made and sold to individual owners under the National Firearms Act. Only current production Machineguns are removed from non govment ownership.

Sport45 · July 28, 2012, 03:21 AM

That makes sense. So if he wants to take it out and shoot it that would be for testing purposes since it is manufactured for sale to the select list of entities that can buy it. Or do the ultimate purchasers expect the firearms they buy to be in new condition? Seems that would preclude the manufacturer from getting much personal enjoyment out of their creation.

Stressfire · July 28, 2012, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Seems that would preclude the manufacturer from getting much personal enjoyment out of their creation.

Bingo

David Hineline · July 28, 2012, 06:27 PM

It is a business AKA a job, not a shooting sports hobby. Firearms are test fired even those imaginary new guns you speak of.

If they manuf. one prototype of course they have to burn it to the ground in prototype testing. If they make 10,000 in production form I doubt they put a lot of rounds through each one.

Imagine being a book publisher, You print a book you proof read it once and get some enjoyment out of it, but you do not proof read every copy ever printed.

Sport45 · July 28, 2012, 09:41 PM

I understand. It just looked to me like the OP was trying to make a FA for himself and I thought that might be shady. No offense meant to the OP if I was wrong.

Since the OP hasn't been back since 16-June, we may never know...

David Hineline · July 29, 2012, 09:57 AM

sport your spidy sense is exactly why no one gave him drawings and talked in generalizations.

Lets filter the post from House via Spidey Sense.

If you reveiw his posts, he never has talked about being a FFL dealer before with SOT.

Then he goes off board for 10yrs. All of a sudden he pops back into the NFA discussion section stating that he is FFL 07 , 03 SOT and 02 SOT and wants instructions on converting M16.

The FFL 07 goes with SOT type 2, but SOT type 3 goes with FFL 01 he never mentions having a second FFL 01, but he could have two locations, one dealer and one manuf. but there is seldom reason for this as the FFL 07 is a higher level license than the FFL01 he would need for the SOT type 3 and can do anything the FFL 01 can do and more so why have the duplication of the FFL-01.

When I got into this at first I was pummeled with questions if I would do off paper gun work. Was it really men wanting illegal gun work, or informants trying to trip up the new FFL. We will never know because I did not comply.

June 11, 2012, 07:51 PM	#1
C_GS_W Junior Member Join Date: June 11, 2012 Location: FL, Posts: 1	ar15 to m4a1 conversion (completely legal) I currently have my sot so i can legally manufacture fully automatic weapons (i just thought i should start out with that). My question is about converting a an ar15 to a m4a1. By this i mean converting it to basically what i had when i was in the marines. I want it to be about the exact same thing. I have a cnc mill so manufacturing parts is not a problem. If you don't feel comfortable posting on a public forum feel free to pm me, or pm me and ask for my email and we can talk through email. Last edited by C_GS_W; June 14, 2012 at 01:56 PM.

July 24, 2012, 01:06 PM	#3
house Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 1999 Location: AZ/CA Posts: 369	i am interested in this as well. does any one have dimenshions of what needs to be millied out in the frame? i as well have 07/sot3/sot2 ffl. does the m16 jig that guides you were to drill the sear hole tell you how much milling needs to be done? Last edited by house; July 24, 2012 at 07:03 PM.

July 24, 2012, 04:46 PM	#5
house Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 1999 Location: AZ/CA Posts: 369	ok Last edited by house; July 24, 2012 at 07:04 PM.

July 27, 2012, 08:25 AM	#7
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	I don't know much about the law so I have to ask. Who can you legally manufacture fully automatic weapons for, yourself? __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.

July 27, 2012, 08:39 AM	#8
Willie Lowman Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2009 Location: Uh-Hi-O Posts: 3,006	Skans, a friend of mine is a SOT. He is well versed in HK guns but knows nothing about AR/M16 type guns. I have told him for the last two years that he should make a postsample M16 but he doesn't know where to drill or how much material to mill out. Having a licence to do something doesn't mean you know how it is done. __________________ "9mm has a very long history of being a pointy little bullet moving quickly" --Sevens

June 11, 2012, 09:51 PM	#2
David Hineline Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska Posts: 704	You can buy all the parts you need, no need for a cnc mill unless you are modifiying many receivers to select fire as it will take longer to write the code that it takes to manually mill out one receiver.

July 24, 2012, 04:00 PM	#4
David Hineline Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska Posts: 704	No

July 27, 2012, 11:59 AM	#9
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	Fair enough, Willie - I see your point.

July 28, 2012, 02:50 AM	#10
David Hineline Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska Posts: 704	Sport. With his manuf. license and SOT he can manuf. machineguns for his companies inventory for sale to US based Government Agencies or Police for department use, or for sale to other LE firearms dealers for sale to govment. If he has done the paperwork for exportation he could export machineguns to agents of foreign governments. Up until 1986 when President Regan the favorite Repulican ever signed the Machinegun Ban into law, these machineguns could have been sold in the US to individuals, but the 1986 ban makes them available for qualified government agencies and export only. All other NFA firearms Silencers, Sawed off shotguns, Short barrel rifles, Destructive devices, like mortar and artillary, and Any Other Weapons are allowed to be made and sold to individual owners under the National Firearms Act. Only current production Machineguns are removed from non govment ownership.

July 28, 2012, 03:21 AM	#11
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	That makes sense. So if he wants to take it out and shoot it that would be for testing purposes since it is manufactured for sale to the select list of entities that can buy it. Or do the ultimate purchasers expect the firearms they buy to be in new condition? Seems that would preclude the manufacturer from getting much personal enjoyment out of their creation. __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.

July 28, 2012, 06:27 PM	#13
David Hineline Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska Posts: 704	It is a business AKA a job, not a shooting sports hobby. Firearms are test fired even those imaginary new guns you speak of. If they manuf. one prototype of course they have to burn it to the ground in prototype testing. If they make 10,000 in production form I doubt they put a lot of rounds through each one. Imagine being a book publisher, You print a book you proof read it once and get some enjoyment out of it, but you do not proof read every copy ever printed.

July 28, 2012, 09:41 PM	#14
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	I understand. It just looked to me like the OP was trying to make a FA for himself and I thought that might be shady. No offense meant to the OP if I was wrong. Since the OP hasn't been back since 16-June, we may never know... __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.

July 29, 2012, 09:57 AM	#15
David Hineline Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska Posts: 704	sport your spidy sense is exactly why no one gave him drawings and talked in generalizations. Lets filter the post from House via Spidey Sense. If you reveiw his posts, he never has talked about being a FFL dealer before with SOT. Then he goes off board for 10yrs. All of a sudden he pops back into the NFA discussion section stating that he is FFL 07 , 03 SOT and 02 SOT and wants instructions on converting M16. The FFL 07 goes with SOT type 2, but SOT type 3 goes with FFL 01 he never mentions having a second FFL 01, but he could have two locations, one dealer and one manuf. but there is seldom reason for this as the FFL 07 is a higher level license than the FFL01 he would need for the SOT type 3 and can do anything the FFL 01 can do and more so why have the duplication of the FFL-01. When I got into this at first I was pummeled with questions if I would do off paper gun work. Was it really men wanting illegal gun work, or informants trying to trip up the new FFL. We will never know because I did not comply. Last edited by David Hineline; July 29, 2012 at 10:11 AM.