Talk to me about stun guns.

Littlehoov · May 10, 2009, 02:32 AM

So, Im interested in a means of self defense I can carry at all times.

Before you say a gun, duh, I would love too, but currently dont have a CCW, am not old enough to obtain one, and do not have a gun that would be easy to conceal.

I carry a gun in my car at all times, but, obviously thats not always an option to get too.

My main concern is at work, I work in a convenience store, and Ive been made uncomfortable several times there with different situations.

Thing is, its against company policy to even have weapons on the premises, my boss is a hunter, outdoorsy guy, so he overlooks the fact I keep a gun in my car, but I simply cant bring it in with me. Risk of me getting fired is much too high.

I carry a knife at all times, its pretty easy to deploy, and has the lovely automatic open, but even so, I have to hold it strangely with one hand to use that feature, and I could definitely see myself dropping it in a stress situation. Its also only about a 2-3 inch blade, so it wouldnt be tremendously effective anyway.

I like the idea of a stun-gun/taser or both, that is small and compact, and could be worn on a belt or clipped on a pocket like a cell-phone, Ive done this with my phone many times, and its not uncomfortable, nor does it get in my way at all.

My concern with a stun-gun is the proximity of use, you have to get close enough to touch the person. That can be bad for many reasons as im sure you all know.

My concern with a taser, is of course missing the intended target and having no means of reloading, basically being SOL.

Ive seen a few tasers that also had a stun gun built in, and I like that thought, but they appearted to be somewhat larger as well.

Ive also thought about pepper spray, but Ive heard sometimes it doesnt work.

I also know that as soon as your done "stunning" or "tasering" the person goes right back to fight status. I believe the opposite is true with pepper spray.

I really like the looks, size, etc, of the Kimber Pepperblaster. Or something of that nature, the pics/vids make it hard to tell just how big it is.

Would I be better of taking the small chance of pepper spray not being effective with the added incapacitation factor?

Discuss. Thanks.

scottaschultz · May 10, 2009, 05:29 AM

As unpopular as this advice may be on a firearm forum, I would say that given your age and the place where you work, pepper spray would probably be the best way to go primarily because you can use it at a distance. Maybe not much of a distance, but you don't have to be in actual physical contact with the person in order for it to be effective.

The only word of caution is to carefully check the USE BEFORE date. There are stories about people finding expired cans of the stuff and firing it off only to see the spray only last a few seconds and only shoot a few feet. You may want to try a few brands and see which one shoots the furthest for the longest period of time.

Scott

Lost Sheep · May 10, 2009, 06:16 AM

In some jurisdictions, a Taser or stun-gun is considered a weapon and you could be in trouble with the law as well as your employer. I am not sure about the sprays.

OC is good on almost every threat. UDAP is supposed to be better for bears (which is what I am mostly interested in defense against) and Mace is good for people, but not for canines. What I am suggesting is, do your research.

If you ever do need to use any spray in the store, definitely count on losing your job as well as getting a really big bill for the clean-up. The spray will ruin a lot of merchandise and the store owner/franchise owner will take a dim view of that.

Lost Sheep

Remember, only believe half of what you see and one quarter of what you hear. That goes double for what you get from the internet. Even this post. Maybe especially this post.

Do your own independent, confirming research when ANYONE gives you new facts on the web.

Also remember, even the idiotic stuff might have a kernel of truth buried in there somewhere.

Lost Sheep

Bartholomew Roberts · May 10, 2009, 08:27 AM

Also understand there is a big difference between a Taser and a stun-gun in terms of effectiveness. Many of the stun guns on the market (especially the kind you see sold at the gun shows around here) won't even slow someone down and do little more than cause minor pain.

I would second OC as a better option in general, especially if you can't afford the $1,000+ civilian Taser and the cartridges that come with it (not to mention training on how to use it, etc.).

Given your situation and experience, I think OC is even a better option than a Taser or stun gun.

Littlehoov · May 10, 2009, 08:41 AM

Thanks for the replies so far.

I would have to say Im not sure what corporate policy is on things like stun weapons and OC. I might have to skim through the handbook tonight if I get bored. Thats how I discovered the policy on weapons. I found out the only way Im allowed to have one on premises is with the written permission of the CEO of the company, which Im thinking is probably just legalese for "not happenin'".

I would almost certainly lose my job if I ever brandished a gun at work, and the chances of someone important seeing me packing a gun in there are far greater IMO than me needing to use it. Not too mention if I did shoot someone, whether they died or not thered be lawsuit potential from them. Not too mention Id go into that hooplah likely without a job. Id probably get a lovely letter saying, "glad youre ok, youre fired".

Ill definitely start looking into this more though. Just seems like people may start getting more and more desperate and sometimes compliance only gets you so far.

Dragon55 · May 10, 2009, 08:54 AM

Assuming you do become proficient with stun or tazer I would consider what next.

If you are able to take him down then call the cops what is your next move? Because, he will recover long before the cops get there.

I really sympathize with your dilemma as I've never had a job where I had to deal with the public.

There's a convenient store up the road from me that's been held up at least twice a year. The owner has allowed the clerks to CC.

Kyo · May 10, 2009, 04:16 PM

im pretty sure you can carry a gun to work. Ask the boss, he might say yes. Check your local laws.

scottaschultz · May 10, 2009, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Kyo wrote: im pretty sure you can carry a gun to work.

From the original post -

Quote:

Littlehoov wrote: ...dont have a CCW, am not old enough to obtain one

Kyo, I am pretty sure Littlehoov CAN'T carry a gun to work.

Scott

5whiskey · May 10, 2009, 05:43 PM

Littlehoov, I don't know what time of the day you operate, but if you operate at night and low light alot a very bright flashlight is one of the greatest non-regulated SD tools available. Around dusk, look into a surefire and tell me if you could really see to fight. I carry a flashlight everywhere and draw it to have in hand if I even get a spine tingle. It works man, trust me.

If it's mostly daytime... well then the best bet is to get some OC spray and go to town with that.

Littlehoov · May 11, 2009, 12:55 AM

Even if I did have my CCW, I still couldnt carry at work. They have a corporate policy against having weapons on the premises. Im not exempt of that because I have a CCW. Even if my immediate manager didnt care, I would never ask him to allow it, because he could VERY easily lose his job over allowing me to carry.

But at any rate.

I work typically from 2pm-11pm so most of it is during the day. Except those last 3-4 hours. Its not a huge town by any means 5-6000 people in the area perhaps. Theres mostly just the occasional belligerent drunk or substance user that makes me uncomfortable from time to time. Its far from commonplace though. The only time Ive ever truly freaked out on the inside is when some punk kid dropped a snubbie out of his pocket upon entering the store. Then simply picked it up and went about his business like nothing happened.

Really as far as a robbery situation, or really almost any situation there, Im going to be very compliant, were trained to give robbers what they want, and I dont have a problem with that, its not my money, and its sure not worth 8.30 an hour to run outside and get in a firefight with someone who robbed the place I work. But if it came to a point where someone was trying to force me into their vehicle or do some stupid execution crap or what have you, or simply begin assaulting me (see belligerent drunks above). Then Id like to have something available.

As for a plan, best one I can think of is that if theyve pushed me to the point I had to use OC, Im probably not past pulling a gun on them. So...I can be in my car in a matter of seconds at a sprint. Im not as fast as I used to be but I have a hard time believing someone could catch me when they can barely breathe or see. Run to the car, retrieve weapon, then I have the upper hand. Plus Im not on camera because Im outside.

Its not robbery Im concerned about, even if I owned the place myself its doubtful I would try to foil an armed robbery. I dont care about money whether its mine or someone elses, I do care about my own life/well being and that of those around me.

Its looking like OC is a good option.

Blue Steel · May 12, 2009, 05:50 AM

If you want a stun gun, I would stick with the Taser brand. Most of the others I have seen out there are junk.

I would encourage you to research the Taser C2. The C2 doesn't look like a gun, and has both the air cartridge (ranged attack) and direct stun capability. The air cartridge has a 15 foot range, and the C2 has a 30-second cycle. This is 25 seconds longer than the M26 & X26 police model Tasers, and is designed to give you an opportunity to flee the area. The Taser C2 suggested retail price is $350, but I have seen it for less.

Here is a link to a Popular Mechanic article about the Taser C2:

Popular Mechanics: Taser C2 Shocks Editor

Blue Steel · May 12, 2009, 06:16 AM

With or without the Taser I would suggest you purchase a quality flashlight. The flashlight has an excellent deterrent effect by simply making you more aware of your surrounds in dark parking lots, etc. It also works very well to distract/blind an opponent, and a quality flashlight designed for personal protection will also work as an excellent impact weapon.

I would suggest a model that is machined out of high impact plastics or aluminum with a tail-cap switch. Preferably, you want the flashlight to be longer than the width of your hand so that you can hammer strike with it, and an LED or shock isolated bezel will prevent you from knocking out the bulb.

Another option with flashlights would be something like the UltraStinger from Streamlight. At 11.75 inches, it is not only the brightest flashlight the company makes (295 lumens), but is long enough to be an effective club.

Companies like Surefire, Streamlight, and Blackhawk are quality manufacturers. This is not a plastic D-cell from the TruValue Store, so expect to pay at $100 or more, but you get what you pay for and the light will give you years of good service.

Surefire 6P Defender with strike bezel:

Housezealot · May 12, 2009, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Many of the stun guns on the market (especially the kind you see sold at the gun shows around here) won't even slow someone down and do little more than cause minor pain.

I have abuddy that picked one of these up, He thought it would be real funny to stun me when I walked in the door, I am not that big of a guy and all it did was buy him about 1 second before I punched him in the mouth.

Quote:

he only word of caution is to carefully check the USE BEFORE date. There are stories about people finding expired cans of the stuff and firing it off only to see the spray only last a few seconds and only shoot a few feet. You may want to try a few brands and see which one shoots the furthest for the longest period of time.

+1 just had a thread on exactly this
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=356290

May 10, 2009, 02:32 AM	#1
Littlehoov Member Join Date: March 3, 2009 Posts: 57	Talk to me about stun guns. So, Im interested in a means of self defense I can carry at all times. Before you say a gun, duh, I would love too, but currently dont have a CCW, am not old enough to obtain one, and do not have a gun that would be easy to conceal. I carry a gun in my car at all times, but, obviously thats not always an option to get too. My main concern is at work, I work in a convenience store, and Ive been made uncomfortable several times there with different situations. Thing is, its against company policy to even have weapons on the premises, my boss is a hunter, outdoorsy guy, so he overlooks the fact I keep a gun in my car, but I simply cant bring it in with me. Risk of me getting fired is much too high. I carry a knife at all times, its pretty easy to deploy, and has the lovely automatic open, but even so, I have to hold it strangely with one hand to use that feature, and I could definitely see myself dropping it in a stress situation. Its also only about a 2-3 inch blade, so it wouldnt be tremendously effective anyway. I like the idea of a stun-gun/taser or both, that is small and compact, and could be worn on a belt or clipped on a pocket like a cell-phone, Ive done this with my phone many times, and its not uncomfortable, nor does it get in my way at all. My concern with a stun-gun is the proximity of use, you have to get close enough to touch the person. That can be bad for many reasons as im sure you all know. My concern with a taser, is of course missing the intended target and having no means of reloading, basically being SOL. Ive seen a few tasers that also had a stun gun built in, and I like that thought, but they appearted to be somewhat larger as well. Ive also thought about pepper spray, but Ive heard sometimes it doesnt work. I also know that as soon as your done "stunning" or "tasering" the person goes right back to fight status. I believe the opposite is true with pepper spray. I really like the looks, size, etc, of the Kimber Pepperblaster. Or something of that nature, the pics/vids make it hard to tell just how big it is. Would I be better of taking the small chance of pepper spray not being effective with the added incapacitation factor? Discuss. Thanks.

May 10, 2009, 06:16 AM	#3
Lost Sheep Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2009 Location: Anchorage Alaska Posts: 3,341	Caution In some jurisdictions, a Taser or stun-gun is considered a weapon and you could be in trouble with the law as well as your employer. I am not sure about the sprays. OC is good on almost every threat. UDAP is supposed to be better for bears (which is what I am mostly interested in defense against) and Mace is good for people, but not for canines. What I am suggesting is, do your research. If you ever do need to use any spray in the store, definitely count on losing your job as well as getting a really big bill for the clean-up. The spray will ruin a lot of merchandise and the store owner/franchise owner will take a dim view of that. Lost Sheep Remember, only believe half of what you see and one quarter of what you hear. That goes double for what you get from the internet. Even this post. Maybe especially this post. Do your own independent, confirming research when ANYONE gives you new facts on the web. Also remember, even the idiotic stuff might have a kernel of truth buried in there somewhere. Lost Sheep

May 10, 2009, 08:54 AM	#6
Dragon55 Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2009 Location: East Tennessee Posts: 811	Then what?? Assuming you do become proficient with stun or tazer I would consider what next. If you are able to take him down then call the cops what is your next move? Because, he will recover long before the cops get there. I really sympathize with your dilemma as I've never had a job where I had to deal with the public. There's a convenient store up the road from me that's been held up at least twice a year. The owner has allowed the clerks to CC. __________________ sailing ... A way to spend lots of money and go real S L O W

May 12, 2009, 05:50 AM	#11
Blue Steel Senior Member Join Date: May 10, 2009 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 185	Taser C2 If you want a stun gun, I would stick with the Taser brand. Most of the others I have seen out there are junk. I would encourage you to research the Taser C2. The C2 doesn't look like a gun, and has both the air cartridge (ranged attack) and direct stun capability. The air cartridge has a 15 foot range, and the C2 has a 30-second cycle. This is 25 seconds longer than the M26 & X26 police model Tasers, and is designed to give you an opportunity to flee the area. The Taser C2 suggested retail price is $350, but I have seen it for less. Here is a link to a Popular Mechanic article about the Taser C2: Popular Mechanics: Taser C2 Shocks Editor

May 12, 2009, 06:16 AM	#12
Blue Steel Senior Member Join Date: May 10, 2009 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 185	Flashlights With or without the Taser I would suggest you purchase a quality flashlight. The flashlight has an excellent deterrent effect by simply making you more aware of your surrounds in dark parking lots, etc. It also works very well to distract/blind an opponent, and a quality flashlight designed for personal protection will also work as an excellent impact weapon. I would suggest a model that is machined out of high impact plastics or aluminum with a tail-cap switch. Preferably, you want the flashlight to be longer than the width of your hand so that you can hammer strike with it, and an LED or shock isolated bezel will prevent you from knocking out the bulb. Another option with flashlights would be something like the UltraStinger from Streamlight. At 11.75 inches, it is not only the brightest flashlight the company makes (295 lumens), but is long enough to be an effective club. Companies like Surefire, Streamlight, and Blackhawk are quality manufacturers. This is not a plastic D-cell from the TruValue Store, so expect to pay at $100 or more, but you get what you pay for and the light will give you years of good service. Surefire 6P Defender with strike bezel:

May 10, 2009, 05:29 AM	#2
scottaschultz Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2009 Location: Missouri Posts: 392	As unpopular as this advice may be on a firearm forum, I would say that given your age and the place where you work, pepper spray would probably be the best way to go primarily because you can use it at a distance. Maybe not much of a distance, but you don't have to be in actual physical contact with the person in order for it to be effective. The only word of caution is to carefully check the USE BEFORE date. There are stories about people finding expired cans of the stuff and firing it off only to see the spray only last a few seconds and only shoot a few feet. You may want to try a few brands and see which one shoots the furthest for the longest period of time. Scott

May 10, 2009, 08:27 AM	#4
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	Also understand there is a big difference between a Taser and a stun-gun in terms of effectiveness. Many of the stun guns on the market (especially the kind you see sold at the gun shows around here) won't even slow someone down and do little more than cause minor pain. I would second OC as a better option in general, especially if you can't afford the $1,000+ civilian Taser and the cartridges that come with it (not to mention training on how to use it, etc.). Given your situation and experience, I think OC is even a better option than a Taser or stun gun.

May 10, 2009, 08:41 AM	#5
Littlehoov Member Join Date: March 3, 2009 Posts: 57	Thanks for the replies so far. I would have to say Im not sure what corporate policy is on things like stun weapons and OC. I might have to skim through the handbook tonight if I get bored. Thats how I discovered the policy on weapons. I found out the only way Im allowed to have one on premises is with the written permission of the CEO of the company, which Im thinking is probably just legalese for "not happenin'". I would almost certainly lose my job if I ever brandished a gun at work, and the chances of someone important seeing me packing a gun in there are far greater IMO than me needing to use it. Not too mention if I did shoot someone, whether they died or not thered be lawsuit potential from them. Not too mention Id go into that hooplah likely without a job. Id probably get a lovely letter saying, "glad youre ok, youre fired". Ill definitely start looking into this more though. Just seems like people may start getting more and more desperate and sometimes compliance only gets you so far.

May 10, 2009, 04:16 PM	#7
Kyo Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Posts: 897	im pretty sure you can carry a gun to work. Ask the boss, he might say yes. Check your local laws.

May 10, 2009, 05:43 PM	#9
5whiskey Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2005 Location: US Posts: 3,652	Littlehoov, I don't know what time of the day you operate, but if you operate at night and low light alot a very bright flashlight is one of the greatest non-regulated SD tools available. Around dusk, look into a surefire and tell me if you could really see to fight. I carry a flashlight everywhere and draw it to have in hand if I even get a spine tingle. It works man, trust me. If it's mostly daytime... well then the best bet is to get some OC spray and go to town with that.

May 11, 2009, 12:55 AM	#10
Littlehoov Member Join Date: March 3, 2009 Posts: 57	Even if I did have my CCW, I still couldnt carry at work. They have a corporate policy against having weapons on the premises. Im not exempt of that because I have a CCW. Even if my immediate manager didnt care, I would never ask him to allow it, because he could VERY easily lose his job over allowing me to carry. But at any rate. I work typically from 2pm-11pm so most of it is during the day. Except those last 3-4 hours. Its not a huge town by any means 5-6000 people in the area perhaps. Theres mostly just the occasional belligerent drunk or substance user that makes me uncomfortable from time to time. Its far from commonplace though. The only time Ive ever truly freaked out on the inside is when some punk kid dropped a snubbie out of his pocket upon entering the store. Then simply picked it up and went about his business like nothing happened. Really as far as a robbery situation, or really almost any situation there, Im going to be very compliant, were trained to give robbers what they want, and I dont have a problem with that, its not my money, and its sure not worth 8.30 an hour to run outside and get in a firefight with someone who robbed the place I work. But if it came to a point where someone was trying to force me into their vehicle or do some stupid execution crap or what have you, or simply begin assaulting me (see belligerent drunks above). Then Id like to have something available. As for a plan, best one I can think of is that if theyve pushed me to the point I had to use OC, Im probably not past pulling a gun on them. So...I can be in my car in a matter of seconds at a sprint. Im not as fast as I used to be but I have a hard time believing someone could catch me when they can barely breathe or see. Run to the car, retrieve weapon, then I have the upper hand. Plus Im not on camera because Im outside. Its not robbery Im concerned about, even if I owned the place myself its doubtful I would try to foil an armed robbery. I dont care about money whether its mine or someone elses, I do care about my own life/well being and that of those around me. Its looking like OC is a good option.