Best ROF for Subguns?

ACP230 · December 1, 2002, 08:56 AM

On another forum folks are talking about the best rate of fire for subguns. People who shoot subgun matches seem to be most satisfied with rates of around 600 rpm. Those who have "seen the elephant," suggest 900 to 1000 rpm is better because three round bursts don't take so long and will generally stay in a fairly small group. Others fall in between somewhere, or like the sloooooow rate of the M3/M3A1 (Greasegun). What do you guys have to say on the best rate of fire for subguns?

I fall in the 600 rpm camp myself.

**4V50 Gary** · December 1, 2002, 11:07 PM

Mission orientation. For regular combat missions, 600 rpm is fine. Hostage rescue & excutive protection, faster.

Hkmp5sd · December 1, 2002, 11:12 PM

Since I have to pay to feed mine and the targets don't tend to shoot back, I like the 600-800 range.

Schuey2002 · December 2, 2002, 01:37 AM

Double Ditto!

To give you an example:

HK's MP5 has a cyclic rate of 800 rpm,so do the "SD" models,
while the "K" models run at 900 rpm. But the UMP45/40 S&W run at a lower 600 rpm. The HK53's run 700 rpm,and all G36 models at 750 rpm.

As you can see,it depends on the particular gun ....

ACP230 · December 4, 2002, 09:59 AM

Nobody else has an opinion on this?

fal308 · December 4, 2002, 10:45 AM

I'm with Gary, it depends upon the intended and/or expected use.

KarlPMann · December 6, 2002, 08:53 PM

Of all the FA's I've shot I like the ROF of the UZI the best, which is a big reason that it is my favorite sub-gun. Mine runs around 650-700rpm's. Karl.

Johnny Guest · December 6, 2002, 09:41 PM

Probably early indoctrination, but I like the 600--650 range, myself. This is where most Thompsons operate-- A classic old SMG, not very Tack-tick-cull, but lots of fun.

I've made a bunch of empty brass with MAC-10s and M2 .30 carbines. It just seems like too big a chore to keep magazines loaded . . .

The utility of the SMG in a non-military setting is largely for show and morale purposes. I know - - -You can't have a SWAT team without a couple of buzz guns, but I can't find a time in the past 30 years when they were a real advantage for law enforcement. FUN shooting, and matches, now - - -That's another thing.

Best,
Johnny

MeekAndMild · December 6, 2002, 10:33 PM

600-700 ok

The Rock · December 7, 2002, 02:52 PM

Actually, I remember a statement made that the M16 was best around 425-435rpm.

I wonder how you could slow it down that low.

TR

DrDremel · December 10, 2002, 08:04 PM

Actually it is different for each firearm. What you want is for the firearm to came back from recoil by the time the next shot is fired. In submachineguns that seem to fall between 550-750 for most. For heavy caliber machineguns that are mounted to a tripod or pintle, a fast rate will give better results. For those the trade off between ammo that a man can carry and the rate must be considered. For competition, the slower the better.

December 1, 2002, 08:56 AM	#1
ACP230 Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2000 Posts: 708	Best ROF for Subguns? On another forum folks are talking about the best rate of fire for subguns. People who shoot subgun matches seem to be most satisfied with rates of around 600 rpm. Those who have "seen the elephant," suggest 900 to 1000 rpm is better because three round bursts don't take so long and will generally stay in a fairly small group. Others fall in between somewhere, or like the sloooooow rate of the M3/M3A1 (Greasegun). What do you guys have to say on the best rate of fire for subguns? I fall in the 600 rpm camp myself. __________________ "To disarm the people (is) the best & most effectual way to enslave them." George Mason.

December 1, 2002, 11:07 PM	#2
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,840	Mission orientation. For regular combat missions, 600 rpm is fine. Hostage rescue & excutive protection, faster. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

December 1, 2002, 11:12 PM	#3
Hkmp5sd Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2001 Location: Winter Haven, Florida Posts: 4,303	Since I have to pay to feed mine and the targets don't tend to shoot back, I like the 600-800 range. __________________ NRA Certified Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Home Safety, Personal Protection, Range Safety Officer NRA Life Member

December 4, 2002, 09:59 AM	#5
ACP230 Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2000 Posts: 708	Nobody else has an opinion on this? __________________ "To disarm the people (is) the best & most effectual way to enslave them." George Mason.

December 6, 2002, 08:53 PM	#7
KarlPMann Member Join Date: October 14, 2002 Location: Woodland Park, Colorado Posts: 15	Of all the FA's I've shot I like the ROF of the UZI the best, which is a big reason that it is my favorite sub-gun. Mine runs around 650-700rpm's. Karl. __________________ Happiness is a warm UZI. UZI-World.

December 2, 2002, 01:37 AM	#4
Schuey2002 Senior Member Join Date: September 21, 2002 Posts: 854	Double Ditto! To give you an example: HK's MP5 has a cyclic rate of 800 rpm,so do the "SD" models, while the "K" models run at 900 rpm. But the UMP45/40 S&W run at a lower 600 rpm. The HK53's run 700 rpm,and all G36 models at 750 rpm. As you can see,it depends on the particular gun ....

December 4, 2002, 10:45 AM	#6
fal308 Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 12, 1998 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,992	I'm with Gary, it depends upon the intended and/or expected use.

December 6, 2002, 09:41 PM	#8
Johnny Guest Moderator in Memoriam Join Date: August 28, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 4,123	According to nature of the use, as mentioned above. Probably early indoctrination, but I like the 600--650 range, myself. This is where most Thompsons operate-- A classic old SMG, not very Tack-tick-cull, but lots of fun. I've made a bunch of empty brass with MAC-10s and M2 .30 carbines. It just seems like too big a chore to keep magazines loaded . . . The utility of the SMG in a non-military setting is largely for show and morale purposes. I know - - -You can't have a SWAT team without a couple of buzz guns, but I can't find a time in the past 30 years when they were a real advantage for law enforcement. FUN shooting, and matches, now - - -That's another thing. Best, Johnny

December 6, 2002, 10:33 PM	#9
MeekAndMild Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2001 Posts: 4,988	600-700 ok __________________ In a few years when the dust finally clears and people start counting their change there is a pretty good chance that President Obama may become known as The Great Absquatulator. You heard it first here on TFL.

December 7, 2002, 02:52 PM	#10
The Rock Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 1999 Location: Occupied VA, CSA Posts: 351	Actually, I remember a statement made that the M16 was best around 425-435rpm. I wonder how you could slow it down that low. TR __________________ Molon Labe! Will YOU stand with ME?

December 10, 2002, 08:04 PM	#11
DrDremel Member Join Date: September 19, 2002 Location: South East Michigan Posts: 68	Actually it is different for each firearm. What you want is for the firearm to came back from recoil by the time the next shot is fired. In submachineguns that seem to fall between 550-750 for most. For heavy caliber machineguns that are mounted to a tripod or pintle, a fast rate will give better results. For those the trade off between ammo that a man can carry and the rate must be considered. For competition, the slower the better.