Parents purchasing firearms

MosinM38 · June 18, 2009, 07:03 AM

Now this don't apply to me 9Finally old enough to buy

)

But we got into a discussion. Primarily what consists of a straw purchase, buying a gun for your kid,etc.

Now if the kid gives money to his parent to buy the gun, it is bought. BUT.....actual ownership doesn't pass to the kid... Now he gets to use it, and keep it,etc, but actual on-paper ownership isn't. That is legal?

Technically since no ownership is transferring, everything is legal, correct? In all technicality, the firearm would simply be loaned to him for use.

I was curious as to how that would work.

Dustin0 · June 18, 2009, 07:34 AM

I dont think so, but Iam not a laywer. I know my father has buy a few for as gift. It is a straw purchase if the Child has been in trouble and Cant buy the gun on his own. If it is a problem with age I dont think it is. People buy guys for the childs to use all the time. How else do you think they sell youth models.

vranasaurus · June 18, 2009, 08:11 AM

Quote:

It is a straw purchase if the Child has been in trouble and Cant buy the gun on his own

The law has no requirement that the person the straw buyer is purchasing for be a prohibited person.

It is a straw purchase if you are purchasing for someone else. The only exception is for the gifting of a firearm.

NavyLT · June 18, 2009, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MosinM38

Now this don't apply to me 9Finally old enough to buy )

But we got into a discussion. Primarily what consists of a straw purchase, buying a gun for your kid,etc.

Now if the kid gives money to his parent to buy the gun, it is bought. BUT.....actual ownership doesn't pass to the kid... Now he gets to use it, and keep it,etc, but actual on-paper ownership isn't. That is legal?

Technically since no ownership is transferring, everything is legal, correct? In all technicality, the firearm would simply be loaned to him for use.

I was curious as to how that would work.

If the gun is purchased from an FFL, it IS a straw purchase because of the bolded, underlined part above, period, end of story.

As vranasaurus pointed out, the legality of the final recipient of the firearm has NO bearing on whether a straw purchase has been made. Straw purchase and furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person are two completely seperate statutes, each can occur without the other, or they both can occur at the same time.

vranasaurus · June 18, 2009, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Straw purchase and furnishing a firearm to a prohibited person are two completely seperate statutes, each can occur without the other, or they both can occur at the same time.

Well stated.

The reason is that it makes it easier for the government to convict people of making a straw purchase because they don't have to prove the recipient was prohibited. If they did it would be nearly impossible to prove that the straw purchaser knew the individual they were buying for was prohibited.

jamullinstx · June 18, 2009, 10:21 PM

"If the law supposes that," according to Mr. Bumble, "... the law is a ass ..."

Notwithstanding the OP's supposition that the child gave the father the money to purchase the firearm, the very idea that a father cannot gift a firearm to a son regardless of residence, etc., is preposterous. The only exception should be if either of the parties to the transaction is a prohibited person.

brickeyee · June 19, 2009, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Didn't say anything negative but I assume they have an even more critical eye than most people would about small things.

You are invited to lobby for the law to be changed.

The Gun Control Act of 1968 (and additional changes since then) requires an FFL to transfer a gun between residents of different states.

For handguns the FFL must be in the buyers state.
For long guns an FFL in either state can do the job.

If you give someone money for something it is no longer a 'gift.'

speedycat · June 19, 2009, 08:20 PM

If the person is legally able to own the weapon but is unable to purchase it, it should not be considered illegal nor a straw purchase. It is common sense. however many of us know that common sense and the law do not go hand and hand. ESPECIALLY when it comes to laws involving firearms.

NavyLT · June 19, 2009, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedycat

If the person is legally able to own the weapon but is unable to purchase it, it should not be considered illegal nor a straw purchase. It is common sense. however many of us know that common sense and the law do not go hand and hand. ESPECIALLY when it comes to laws involving firearms.

Speedycat,

You are correct, it shouldn't be considered a straw purchase. But it IS. It is not what should or shouldn't be that puts a person in jail, it's what IS against the law. Buying a gun from an FFL for another person using their money, obtained from them either before or after the purchase, IS a straw purchase, regardless of the legality of that other person to possess that gun.

Csspecs · June 22, 2009, 04:58 PM

Same thing with cars. How many kids growing up bought their first car but their parents name was on the title? Probably most of them. By doing this they are getting a lower insurance rate due to the parent owning the car, so they are conspiring to commit insurance fraud by not saying who really owns the car.

Cool huh?

As for me, my parents picked a gun and out of the blue decided that they no longer wanted it that same day... Good thing I had exact change to buy it off of them before they went and chucked it in a creek or pawned it.

brickeyee · June 23, 2009, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Same thing with cars. How many kids growing up bought their first car but their parents name was on the title?

In many states you cannot own a car under age 18 since you cannot make contract.

You cannot sell it either.

There is also no law saying the parents cannot use the child's money to purchase a car.

srt 10 jimbo · June 25, 2009, 07:45 AM

I bought my son a 10/22 and a Stoeger p350 pump 12 gauge, while they are his guns , under the law they are mine. I filled out the paperwork because he is only 17

NavyLT · June 25, 2009, 08:13 AM

Correct, jimbo, IF you paid for the guns with your own money. When he turns 18 you can give them to him, with legal ownership transfer, as a gift.

If you purchased the guns with his money, then you have made a straw purchase, regardless of whether or not you hold on to those guns until he is 18.

Wagonman · June 25, 2009, 09:53 AM

Aren't we getting a little tail wagging the dog here. Technically it may be a straw purchase but not in intent. A household's money is a household's money and that $500 could just be the son's contribution to the food budget.

srt 10 jimbo · June 25, 2009, 04:36 PM

If Son has Money, It's cause I gave it to him, believe me.

markj · June 25, 2009, 04:42 PM

My 6 year old son said to me the other day, "When you die I get all your guns"?

He knows, you bet he knows.

Csspecs · June 25, 2009, 04:58 PM

Someone did bring an interesting point.. Before the age of 18 do you really have your "own money" or does it really in the end belong to the parents or they have control of it at least.

ImprobableJoe · June 25, 2009, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Someone did bring an interesting point.. Before the age of 18 do you really have your "own money" or does it really in the end belong to the parents or they have control of it at least.

I got my first job at 13, and that money was MINE.

Certainly, once it is legal to work without parental consent(16 and up in at least some if not most states) I would assume that the money belongs to the person working and not to the parents. Tricky from a legal standpoint, isn't it?

Wagonman · June 25, 2009, 08:47 PM

Quote:

I got my first job at 13, and that money was MINE.

You may think it was yours but it was in fact whoever paid the bills in your home.

ImprobableJoe · June 25, 2009, 08:50 PM

Quote:

You may think it was yours but it was in fact whoever paid the bills in your home.

I'm not sure... I had my own bank account. I don't know for sure from a legal standpoint, but it seems like it would at least be negotiable.

srt 10 jimbo · June 26, 2009, 06:18 PM

Hey Navylt, you still active?

NavyLT · June 26, 2009, 06:22 PM

Yep, still active duty until April 2011 when I will retire with 27 years.

June 18, 2009, 07:03 AM	#1
MosinM38 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2007 Posts: 1,030	Parents purchasing firearms Now this don't apply to me 9Finally old enough to buy ) But we got into a discussion. Primarily what consists of a straw purchase, buying a gun for your kid,etc. Now if the kid gives money to his parent to buy the gun, it is bought. BUT.....actual ownership doesn't pass to the kid... Now he gets to use it, and keep it,etc, but actual on-paper ownership isn't. That is legal? Technically since no ownership is transferring, everything is legal, correct? In all technicality, the firearm would simply be loaned to him for use. I was curious as to how that would work.

June 18, 2009, 10:21 PM	#6
jamullinstx Member Join Date: March 5, 2009 Posts: 19	Mr. Bumble "If the law supposes that," according to Mr. Bumble, "... the law is a ass ..." Notwithstanding the OP's supposition that the child gave the father the money to purchase the firearm, the very idea that a father cannot gift a firearm to a son regardless of residence, etc., is preposterous. The only exception should be if either of the parties to the transaction is a prohibited person.

June 18, 2009, 07:34 AM	#2
Dustin0 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2008 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 701	I dont think so, but Iam not a laywer. I know my father has buy a few for as gift. It is a straw purchase if the Child has been in trouble and Cant buy the gun on his own. If it is a problem with age I dont think it is. People buy guys for the childs to use all the time. How else do you think they sell youth models.

June 19, 2009, 08:20 PM	#8
speedycat Member Join Date: June 8, 2009 Posts: 26	If the person is legally able to own the weapon but is unable to purchase it, it should not be considered illegal nor a straw purchase. It is common sense. however many of us know that common sense and the law do not go hand and hand. ESPECIALLY when it comes to laws involving firearms.

June 22, 2009, 04:58 PM	#10
Csspecs Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2005 Posts: 1,111	Same thing with cars. How many kids growing up bought their first car but their parents name was on the title? Probably most of them. By doing this they are getting a lower insurance rate due to the parent owning the car, so they are conspiring to commit insurance fraud by not saying who really owns the car. Cool huh? As for me, my parents picked a gun and out of the blue decided that they no longer wanted it that same day... Good thing I had exact change to buy it off of them before they went and chucked it in a creek or pawned it.

June 25, 2009, 07:45 AM	#12
srt 10 jimbo Senior Member Join Date: September 10, 2008 Location: Fort Lauderdale Posts: 955	I bought my son a 10/22 and a Stoeger p350 pump 12 gauge, while they are his guns , under the law they are mine. I filled out the paperwork because he is only 17

June 25, 2009, 08:13 AM	#13
NavyLT Junior member Join Date: January 25, 2006 Location: Oak Harbor, WA Posts: 1,719	Correct, jimbo, IF you paid for the guns with your own money. When he turns 18 you can give them to him, with legal ownership transfer, as a gift. If you purchased the guns with his money, then you have made a straw purchase, regardless of whether or not you hold on to those guns until he is 18.

June 25, 2009, 09:53 AM	#14
Wagonman Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2008 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,014	Aren't we getting a little tail wagging the dog here. Technically it may be a straw purchase but not in intent. A household's money is a household's money and that $500 could just be the son's contribution to the food budget.

June 25, 2009, 04:36 PM	#15
srt 10 jimbo Senior Member Join Date: September 10, 2008 Location: Fort Lauderdale Posts: 955	If Son has Money, It's cause I gave it to him, believe me.

June 25, 2009, 04:42 PM	#16
markj Senior Member Join Date: October 27, 2005 Location: Crescent Iowa Posts: 2,971	My 6 year old son said to me the other day, "When you die I get all your guns"? He knows, you bet he knows.

June 25, 2009, 04:58 PM	#17
Csspecs Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2005 Posts: 1,111	Someone did bring an interesting point.. Before the age of 18 do you really have your "own money" or does it really in the end belong to the parents or they have control of it at least.

June 26, 2009, 06:18 PM	#21
srt 10 jimbo Senior Member Join Date: September 10, 2008 Location: Fort Lauderdale Posts: 955	Hey Navylt, you still active?

June 26, 2009, 06:22 PM	#22
NavyLT Junior member Join Date: January 25, 2006 Location: Oak Harbor, WA Posts: 1,719	Yep, still active duty until April 2011 when I will retire with 27 years.