The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old July 23, 2023, 04:24 PM   #51
bac1023
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2008
Posts: 1,106
Quote:
Unless you have data to back it up, your comment about quality is meaningless.
And that is why I used the word "irrational".
Lol I don’t know. I’ve owned over a quarter million worth of 1911’s over the past 15-20 years and own dozens now. While I only buy high end stuff, there was a time I owned some Kimbers and I’ve seen and handled many more. I know what they are.

What the hell is “irrational” about not liking a ton of MIM along with dumb names and goofy designs and colors for Dan Wesson money? What “data” do you require?

While it’s not saying much, I will say the Kimber 1911’s are a heck of a lot better than some of their small pistol designs, which have been nothing sort of horrible.

Last edited by bac1023; July 23, 2023 at 04:33 PM.
bac1023 is offline  
Old July 23, 2023, 04:30 PM   #52
bac1023
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2008
Posts: 1,106
Quote:
A low end Baer vs a high end will change things like single side to ambi, 2.5” to 1.5” accuracy guarantee, higher quality surface prep for premium bluing, and adjustable sights. There are other things too….my point is there is just more and the parts used are top shelf.
The 1.5” guarantee is a $300 option available on carbon steel Baers. It has nothing to do with the base price.
bac1023 is offline  
Old July 23, 2023, 04:45 PM   #53
Nathan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2001
Posts: 6,314
For the Hemi@$3429:

Quote:
Special features include:
Double serrated slide • Slide fitted to frame • Baer Fiber optic front sight with green insert
• Hex head grip screws • Flat mainspring housing checkered at 20 lpi • Special tactical package with ambi safety, VZ black recon grips • Complete hard chrome finish on all major components • Dupont S coating on slide stop, ambi safety, mag catch and mag catch lock, hammer, trigger, barrel, plumger tube, hammer pin, sear pin, recoil plug, hex head grip screws • (2) 8-round premium magazines
For the Concept I @$2450:
Quote:
Baer's line of Concept pistols pushes the envelope for the perfect combination of ahead-of-the-art design, true custom craftsmanship, unparalleled performance, and the best value in the firearms industry. All Concept© pistols come with a crisp 4 lb. pull and all are guaranteed to deliver 3" groups at 50 yards.

The Baer Concept I© is a full size custom 1911 with features that include:
Baer steel NM frame, NM slide and NM barrel with Baer stainless bushing • Slide fitted to frame • Double serrated slide • LBC adjustable deluxe low mount rear sight with hidden rear leaf • Baer dovetail front sight • Baer beavertail grip safety w/pad • Baer checkered slide stop • Tuned Baer extractor • Baer extended ejector • Baer deluxe hammer and sear • Lowered and flared ejection port • Polished feed ramp and throated barrel • Baer flat serrated mainspring housing • Beveled magazine well
• Baer extended ambi safety • Baer fitted speed trigger with action job • Baer Premium Checkered grips • Blued finish • Tuned for total reliability • (2) 8-round premium magazines
It would be hard for me to say the Hemi is worth the premium to me, but both are great pistols. I’m sorry I missed some features as Baer has changed thing up a bit since I looked at them much.

My point was $2450 to $3429 is relatively small price change with a true feature upgrade,

Kimber:

Base: $650 LINK

Deluxe: $3278LINK This does have a 1” @25yd guarantee.

Prices are real prices at Grabagun.com
Nathan is offline  
Old July 23, 2023, 06:48 PM   #54
Aguila Blanca
Staff
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 18,456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan
My point was $2450 to $3429 is relatively small price change with a true feature upgrade,
I don't consider a 40% increase to be a "small price change."

YMMV
__________________
NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor
NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO
1911 Certified Armorer
Jeepaholic
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old July 23, 2023, 09:37 PM   #55
Lurch37
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 6, 2006
Location: Middle of Nebraska
Posts: 941
With regards to the original posters questions and a quick look on Buds Guns:

Kimbers run $700 to $1600

Rugers run $600 to $1000

Fusions run $600 to $1100

Colts run $1000 to $1400 but only a couple on Buds

Colts run $900 to $1800 on Grab a Gun with a few more.

If your only wanting to spend $600 to $700 then a Colt is probably out. If your willing to spend $900 then a Colt is a possibility.
__________________
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
Lurch37 is offline  
Old July 24, 2023, 10:51 AM   #56
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 18,525
I got to fondle a friend's Bul Commander yesterday.
Very nice, good appearance, smooth operation, Cooper Qualified. (That is sights you can see, a trigger you can control, and an absence of sharp edges.)
Now if the doctor cuts me loose for ordinary activities like IDPA, I will get to shoot it.
Jim Watson is offline  
Old July 24, 2023, 12:54 PM   #57
JKP
Member
 
Join Date: May 3, 2010
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 90
The SA Garrison is a good value for the price. Of the 2 Turkish 1911 I bought I would only recommend the Tisas. The Girsan I had was not so great, the slide stop broke at 4000 rounds. I learned a lot about different springs and extractor adjustment with the Girsan, but sold it. The Garrison I replaced it with is much better (and $300 more).
JKP is offline  
Old July 24, 2023, 01:30 PM   #58
44caliberkid
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 15, 2017
Location: Iowa
Posts: 1,092
I bought a Garrison recently, on sale, just under $700, out the door, including tax. Very tight and nicely finished piece.
44caliberkid is offline  
Old July 24, 2023, 05:32 PM   #59
101combatvet
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 25, 2011
Posts: 667
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHSHOOTER View Post
Just yesterday I was at my daughters and shot her hubby's new 1911 45, really enjoyed shooting it and it was quite accurate. Now I want 1, what brand should I get, I am fond of Kimber and Ruger, probably cant afford a colt, any input would be great, also looking for a good choice for cc..
If you can't afford a Colt, the Kimber isn't an option. Springfield Armory makes a nice one for around $650.
__________________
Special Operations Combat Veteran
Gunsmith, BS, MFA, Competitive Shooter
NRA Certified Firearms Instructor [9 Certifications]

Last edited by 101combatvet; July 24, 2023 at 08:24 PM.
101combatvet is offline  
Old July 24, 2023, 07:39 PM   #60
FunGramps
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 27, 2018
Location: Leftern Washington
Posts: 240
Depending on your budget, Springfield has proved to be a well-made alternative to the much costlier Colt or Kimber. Although, Springfield was much less expensive than they have become. My buddy has one, and can't say enough good about it. He bought the very basic, blued MILSPEC with "US" on the wood grip for $450.00 years ago.
I fell in love with the 1911 and its history while I served with the Marines as a Navy Corpsman. We used to have field strip competitions with them. Strip down and back together. Amazing how quick one can get! Mr. Browning was a weapon Einstein!
Good luck to you. PS...Just my personal opinion, but if you can, stay clear of the Tisas. You always get what you pay for...almost always anyway.
__________________
Finding a wise liberal is as easy as inventing perpetual motion.
FunGramps is offline  
Old July 25, 2023, 06:48 AM   #61
JustJake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 12, 2020
Posts: 496
Tisas are the new RIAs.

Plus, they run hiccup-free, whereas the more recently-made RIAs are reportedly hit-n-miss coming out of the box.
__________________
I use the Jake Brake every chance I get.
Don't care if it annoys you.
Hear me now?!
JustJake is offline  
Old July 25, 2023, 09:26 AM   #62
totaldla
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 10, 2009
Location: SW Idaho
Posts: 1,284
Some folks here should actually look up prices before commenting about price.

What I've noticed is a generational change in 1911 buyers. The older crowd seemed more serious about actually carrying, so manufacturers offered the 4" barrel alloy frame "Commander" style. Now I see much more interest in the very low cost imports - usually a very basic pistol lacking refinements learned over the last 50 years.

My takeaway is that the 1911 has become more of a toy to a new generation of shooters because there are simply too many better pistol designs competing for our $. Although I do realize that there are new shooters living in States with goofy restrictions that make 1911s more attractive.

I personally wouldn't buy another 1911 unless I wanted a BBQ gun.
totaldla is offline  
Old July 25, 2023, 06:22 PM   #63
Aguila Blanca
Staff
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 18,456
Quote:
Originally Posted by totaldla
My takeaway is that the 1911 has become more of a toy to a new generation of shooters because there are simply too many better pistol designs competing for our $.
Sacrilege!

Heresy!

__________________
NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor
NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO
1911 Certified Armorer
Jeepaholic
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old July 26, 2023, 01:26 PM   #64
jar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2001
Location: Deep South Texas
Posts: 1,664
Quote:
Originally Posted by totaldla View Post
Some folks here should actually look up prices before commenting about price.

What I've noticed is a generational change in 1911 buyers. The older crowd seemed more serious about actually carrying, so manufacturers offered the 4" barrel alloy frame "Commander" style. Now I see much more interest in the very low cost imports - usually a very basic pistol lacking refinements learned over the last 50 years.

My takeaway is that the 1911 has become more of a toy to a new generation of shooters because there are simply too many better pistol designs competing for our $. Although I do realize that there are new shooters living in States with goofy restrictions that make 1911s more attractive.

I personally wouldn't buy another 1911 unless I wanted a BBQ gun.
I'm not sure if I've found any better designs than a 1911 but I do find other designs that work as well as some of my 1911s and I've had some 1911s that were simply horrid.

I've reached that age when I've learned I should listen to what my body says; take the car rather than walk, do it tomorrow rather than today, carry the Walther CCP M2+ 380 instead of the 1911 Government model.

That doesn't mean the Walther CCP M2+ 380 is a better design; it's different and at that specific time is a better choice for me physically. Tomorrow I may be back carrying the 1911.

But when looking a some very very similar "Newer" vs "Older" options in most cases I've found I prefer the older. On days when my body says I shouldn't carry the 1911 Government model I don't switch to my Shield 45. On days when I consider carrying my Shield 9mm I find I more often choose my old 59 or 469 rather than the newer design.

No, I can't say I've found any really "better" designs out there simply different options that sometimes meet special needs.

And that also holds true when it comes to areas like holsters. There again I have not found "New" equals "Better". My old Kramer Thomas Perfectionist gets to go WalkAbout and my Sparks Summer Special 2 is in the Box of Shame. My older Strong and Roy's Original pancake holsters get to go WalkAbout while the Simply Rugged Sourdough is in the Box of Shame.
__________________
To be vintage it's gotta be older than me!
jar is offline  
Old July 26, 2023, 08:21 PM   #65
lll Otto lll
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 1, 2008
Location: Lone Star State
Posts: 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by 44caliberkid View Post
I bought a Garrison recently, on sale, just under $700, out the door, including tax. Very tight and nicely finished piece.
So did I from Brownells. It was $667. I wasn’t impressed with it. The Range Officers were much better. I’m glad you’re happy with yours.
My suggestion to the OP is to save-up his coins and buy a Dan Wesson….either a Pointman or Valor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJake View Post
Tisas are the new RIAs.

Plus, they run hiccup-free, whereas the more recently-made RIAs are reportedly hit-n-miss coming out of the box.
I bought the Tisas 1911 Duty last year for $484. It has a nasty habit of double firing. Tisas USA customer service makes you jump through a bunch of hoops just to get a RMA. One of those hoops is having to submit a scan of your drivers license.

Last edited by lll Otto lll; July 26, 2023 at 08:34 PM.
lll Otto lll is offline  
Old July 26, 2023, 10:43 PM   #66
101combatvet
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 25, 2011
Posts: 667
Quote:
Originally Posted by totaldla View Post
My takeaway is that the 1911 has become more of a toy to a new generation of shooters because there are simply too many better pistol designs competing for our $. Although I do realize that there are new shooters living in States with goofy restrictions that make 1911s more attractive.
What, in your opinion, is better than a 1911?
__________________
Special Operations Combat Veteran
Gunsmith, BS, MFA, Competitive Shooter
NRA Certified Firearms Instructor [9 Certifications]
101combatvet is offline  
Old July 26, 2023, 11:43 PM   #67
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,768
Quote:
What, in your opinion, is better than a 1911?
The 1911A1!!!
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old July 27, 2023, 09:58 AM   #68
Nodak1858
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 7, 2009
Location: N. Dakota
Posts: 435
Quote:
What, in your opinion, is better than a 1911?
Quote:
The 1911A1!!!
I was going to say 2 1911s??
__________________
We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.
Nodak1858 is offline  
Old July 27, 2023, 10:52 AM   #69
RickB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 1, 2000
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 8,516
In my experience, Glocks aren't "Glock reliable", so there's that.
Maybe if I rolled around in the mud on the range floor, I'd have a greater appreciation.

Agree that Tisas is the new Norinco, for low-priced base guns, as the former appear to have excellent bones.

A gun with features chosen by someone other than you is not a custom, no matter how well-made it is, and I can't abide production guns with poorly executed features like gappy beavertails, or daylight showing through sight dovetails, as I'm from the era of those being gunsmith fitted.

I'll buy a G.I.-style gun and fit the safeties myself, rather than accept production-line levels of fit and function, but not everyone wants a project in every gun.
__________________
Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong.
RickB is offline  
Old July 27, 2023, 02:25 PM   #70
gwpercle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 30, 2012
Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Posts: 1,748
Just finished reading two reviews of Tisas 1911's , the first , a commander , 45 acp , with alloy frame , bob-tail grip ( for concealed carry) and 3 dot sights ... shot 5 different brands ammo , 185 WC to 230 RN with 200 gr JHP , avg trigger pull 3.3 lbs , good groups and 5 star rating ... Every round , WC - HP - RN all fed , fired and ejected ...shoting was 100%.
avg. accuracy 2.5 " @ 25 yards

The other review was a full size , stainless steel in 38 Super ... the shooting results were similsr to the 45 Commander as was trigger pull and accuracy .
The reviewer gave it a big thumbs up and did not return the pistol ... he sent them a check for it !
When a reviewer BUYS the gun instead of return after testing ... that means he realy Likes it ... and he Liked it !

I might have to look at this new kid on the block ...the prices are Right !
Gary
gwpercle is offline  
Old July 27, 2023, 07:30 PM   #71
FITASC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 6, 2014
Posts: 6,440
Quote:
If you can't afford a Colt, the Kimber isn't an option. Springfield Armory makes a nice one for around $650.
And a much better one for about $1500
__________________
"I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa
FITASC is offline  
Old July 28, 2023, 08:38 PM   #72
FunGramps
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 27, 2018
Location: Leftern Washington
Posts: 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodak1858 View Post
I was going to say 2 1911s??
May I make that three?
__________________
Finding a wise liberal is as easy as inventing perpetual motion.
FunGramps is offline  
Old August 13, 2023, 07:33 AM   #73
Trooper Joe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 5, 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 222
Since June 6, 2023, I have bought 5 Tisas 1911’s. I only had one that I had to do some adjusting on. It was a special made one for Bud’s. I was going to sell it but after Tisas gave me a fitted barrel and I installed a new Thumb safety, I have decided to keep it.

The others were a MilSpec 45, a Tanker Commander, a Stingray 9mm carry model and a MAC 1911 JSOC 45 ACP made by Tisas. After I bought the first two, I sold my SA “Mil Spec” since it was no where as good as the Tisas guns.

Trooper Joe
Trooper Joe is offline  
Old August 13, 2023, 10:53 AM   #74
Ricklin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 22, 2008
Location: SW Washington state
Posts: 2,007
Tisa'a from Bud's

So what's all the excitement over old slabsides? I broke down and bought the cheapest 1911 I could find prolly around 2019 I would guess. Pre covid I paid around 300 bucks.
When it arrived at my transfer dealer the guys in the shop wanted to have a look, esp. when I mentioned the price was very low.
Nary a discouraging word was heard from the peanut gallery, one guy in particular raved about the trigger, it's quite good.
It's since had a few hundred rounds through it. Had a couple of FTF's in the first few mags, been 100% since.
My only complaint? The extractor needs a little tuning, darn thing throws brass all over the county. When shooting bullseye my G19 darn near puts them in a neat little pile.
I am a fan of cheap. The Tisa's is excellent. I would not recommend it as a first handgun, I think there are better choices. I would not recommend any 1911 pattern as a first or only handgun.
__________________
ricklin
Freedom is not free
Ricklin is offline  
Old August 13, 2023, 01:41 PM   #75
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,768
Where the 1911A1's empties end up is more than just the extractor, its also the ejector and the slide velocity produced by the ammo you are shooting.

Shoot a target load, the brass goes one place (provided the load is consistent), shoot ball ammo, it goes in a different spot. Shoot hot loads and the brass goes another place. That is simply the way that gun works.

Shoot a light load and cases will probably be in a nice little pile near your feet (or land on the brim of your hat, )
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.09424 seconds with 9 queries