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Old June 23, 2021, 02:54 AM   #26
AlongCameJones
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One should never ever pretend to play Russian roulette on themselves with a genuine revolver even if they cleared the gun 10 times in a row immediately beforehand.

This is truly courting one's own death.

I also have had a bad habit of looking at a gun and admiring it in my hands while I KNOW the gun has ammo in it. I have recently resolved to break this habit for good.
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Old June 24, 2021, 02:21 AM   #27
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B&H Guns was originally the Glock Dealer on Merrit Island. Parking behind the store walked into a just happened N/G!
A Police Officer from a local Dept, with his Glock 19 in a belt holster, with a coat with a loose cord that held the bottom of the coat tight, somehow invaded the trigger guard BANG!
He produced a knife and totally removed this cord. Everybody looked shocked.
That smell of a fresh gun discharge told the story.
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Old June 24, 2021, 05:45 AM   #28
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Well..... since this happened to me rather recently I will take the risk and share my tale of personal stupidity.

I was sitting in my living room and decided it was time to do my monthly cleaning of my carry gun. A sig P3230 that I carry off body in a shoulder bag with a kydex holster inside my shoulder bag. The holster is attached to the bag via hook and loop.

I carefully draw the pistol out of my bag and drop the mag, then, because I had just purchased some shiny new bright orange Chamber empty flags with chamber block, I deviated from my usual routine. I stopped the unload, rack slide, visually and physically inspect the chamber routine I always use. I instead stopped and fumbled around for that chamber flag then bad things (tm) happened.

What I usually do AFTER emptying the chamber and verifying it is pull the trigger to release the sear. Which has pretty much become muscle memory at this point. I interrupted the usual cycle and without thinking I pull the trigger. BANG. A 90gr. Underwood Xtreme Defender round discharges and rips though the sofa, into the wall and , thankfully, comes to rest somewhere inside the wall cavity.

After checking that neither myself or my spouse was injured I immediately call the local police to report the ND. Yes I reported my own ND to the cops.

The police arrive and find that my pistol is completely unloaded with the chamber flag in it sitting on my gun cleaning table in my "gun room" with all my misc. things in OCD level organization. I explain what happened etc etc. They go to the neighbors apartment that the wall that was hit belongs to to verify the round did not penetrate into the next apartment and that no-one was injured.

Thankfully the police wrote up the report but did NOT file any charges for the incident. That report is now framed and hanging on my wall in my gun room and is now a talisman reminder of following all safety protocols without distraction.

The lessons learned from this experience were many but I will sum them up as thus.

1. NEVER let yourself be distracted when handling a weapon regardless of if you "know" it isnt loaded.

2. Getting complacent in your safety process will eventually bite you in the butt and someone could pay dearly for your complacency.

3. Having a "safety bucket" when living in an apartment is a definite good idea. After this happened I bought a 5 gallon steel bucket and 50 pounds of sand and made myself a clearing bucket to add an extra level of "just in case I missed something" to my unloading and reloading procedures.


No-one is immune to ND's. Anyone who tells you they will never have one is either clueless or an accident waiting to happen. Always be safe with your guns and never treat them like toys or as an afterthought.
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Old June 25, 2021, 08:27 AM   #29
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My father and I were shooting an M1 Garand match at Camp Perry and his Garand had a Slam Fire when he released the action. Got a Zero which hurt is score, but no one was hurt. Scared the heck out of us. We were using Greek Ammo provided by the CMP folks so not sure what happened exactly. We have shot a bunch after that and it has not happened again.
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Old June 25, 2021, 11:28 AM   #30
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Concentration !!!!

Quote:
I deviated from my usual routine.
These are the times when I come close to getting in potential trouble. It's the four basic safety rules that have saved me from getting into trouble, along with my daily prayers. .....

During our Hunter Safety, live fire periods, I help teach M/L's and do all the loading demos. While another instructor is explaining the loading steps and components I concentrate on loading, "Only". Sure enough, once in awhile I have to add some comments and those are the times, I can get my share of Dry-Ball. I take the opportunity to use this for as teaching moment. ....

One way or another, we have used little hints/routines, to keep us safe. One that I have used lately, is to say; "GUN", every time I touch one and it works..


Be Safe !!!
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Old June 29, 2021, 12:03 PM   #31
ghbucky
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I had a very big wake-up moment this weekend.

I recently set up a car holster, which is just a holster velcroe'd to the passenger seat. (I usually ride shotgun and the wife drives).

We pulled into the driveway and I was looking up some nonsense or other on my phone and went to retrieve my striker fired handgun while still looking at my phone.

Thankfully, for whatever the reason my focus suddenly switched COMPLETELY to the fact that my trigger finger was ON the trigger. No pressure applied, but there I was doing a very stupid thing.

No handling a gun while distracted <-- lesson received!
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Old June 29, 2021, 12:16 PM   #32
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghbucky
We pulled into the driveway and I was looking up some nonsense or other on my phone and went to retrieve my striker fired handgun while still looking at my phone.

Thankfully, for whatever the reason my focus suddenly switched COMPLETELY to the fact that my trigger finger was ON the trigger. No pressure applied, but there I was doing a very stupid thing.

No handling a gun while distracted <-- lesson received!
There may be another lesson in there, too.

WHY did your finger automatically go on the trigger? In general, I submit that this falls under the category of muscle memory. If the body performs certain functions or operations in the same way repeatedly, eventually the body (muscle memory) learns the action and the action becomes automatic, or instinctive. In other words, habit.

Any other time when you draw or pick up a firearm, when does your finger go on the trigger? Is it possible that you have an ingrained habit of putting your finger on the trigger before you have the sights on the intended target?

I grew up in the days of the 1950s television westerns, and cop shows like Dragnet. Gun handling on television and in the movies when I was a youth was pretty terrible, so I "learned" from watching all those shows and movies that when you pick up a gun you put your finger on the trigger.

It took me a long time to train myself out of that when I was old enough to have my own firearms, and I recognized that what I had been doing was dangerous.
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Old June 29, 2021, 12:27 PM   #33
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Quote:
WHY did your finger automatically go on the trigger? In general, I submit that this falls under the category of muscle memory. If the body performs certain functions or operations in the same way repeatedly, eventually the body (muscle memory) learns the action and the action becomes automatic, or instinctive. In other words, habit.

Any other time when you draw or pick up a firearm, when does your finger go on the trigger? Is it possible that you have an ingrained habit of putting your finger on the trigger before you have the sights on the intended target?
It is a very valid question, and one I've been pondering. I used to shoot a lot of steel, IDPA and whatever other type of match I could find, so I thought my draw stroke and indexed trigger finger were pretty ingrained.

I think that's why my focus so dramatically switched because what I was doing was ABNORMAL and not at all normal.

But, your question is a damn good one, and one I don't have an answer for.
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Old June 29, 2021, 01:52 PM   #34
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Possibly your mind has internalized one type of trigger discipline as being for competition, and another as being for real life?

Dunno. 'Tis a conundrum.
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Old June 29, 2021, 02:30 PM   #35
ghbucky
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Now that I think about it with a little more distance, I realized that I haven't actually practiced the draw and presentation in some time.

Looks like I need to bone up on my handgun handling.
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Old June 29, 2021, 02:53 PM   #36
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And there's an additional factor for those of us who carry pistols with external safeties: when do you disengage the safety?

I carry a 1911, and when I was competing I used a Para-Ordnance double stack 1911. I sweep the safety off as my presentation is at around halfway through the arc from vertical to horizontal (muzzle about 45 degrees to the ground). I've encountered people who disengage the safety before drawing or during the draw, while the gun is still in the holster.
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Old June 29, 2021, 11:51 PM   #37
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Well, I will tell you, a much larger percentage of ND's happen to people who shoot and handle guns a lot, then most want to admit. I am not the first one who ever said that, but I agree, and I have know of several among seasoned (very seasoned and experienced shooters), but that still leaves plenty of room left for the rank amateur, to have one also.

Whatever other rules you follow, the main one is never let the muzzle cover something you are not willing to shoot. At least if you will follow that one rule, if and I might even say when, it might happen to you, it will not result in a tragic ending.
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Old June 30, 2021, 08:42 AM   #38
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I lived in an Apartment after my Divorce, a friend of mine dropped in for a coffee, and to get warm! 40F Below! A Toronto Police Officer. He liked my Walther PPK in .380.
Took it out of the safe, did not bother to unload it, just said "There's one in the pipe, remember?" He said "Sure" and put that round into the living room wall, double brick outside wall. I wrote his name next to the hole!
I patched the problem and painted over it, gone. Sold it to him later. No, I did not report it. That was a long time ago, he still has it.
He is retired now, still likes his firearms.
I sold him a BSA Bolt Action Rifle, he hunts each hunting season.
It looks like the day he bought it, even better. He added a scope.

Last edited by Brit; July 1, 2021 at 06:44 AM.
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Old June 30, 2021, 10:29 PM   #39
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How not to deal with hot brass...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq1NsABn5D0

The video is age restricted, you will have to sign in to youtube to watch it.

For those who don't want to watch the video, let's just say that no matter how much hot brass down your shirt hurts, you can make it worse with poor muzzle control and bad trigger finger discipline.

When you lose your concentration, it will be your training and ingrained habits that either kick in and save you, or fail, depending on your level of training/preparation.

This person survived, but it was a matter of inches.
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