Are revolvers relevant in the 21st century ? - Page 7

JustJake · June 21, 2021, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Any gun can fail. Seeing one fail really means nothing. Was the gun in good condition, maintained, how many rounds and on and on.

Majorly missed the point there, bucky ...

Yes, any "gun" can fail. Not the point. Keep 'em clean, yadda, yadda.

Still not the point.

Between those handguns we call revolvers and those we call semi-autos, it indisputable that when a revolver fails in the field - as in a cylinder lock-up - it's utterly and entirely out-of-action. When a wheelgun fails in that way, it's catastrophic in terms of an immediate operational remedy.

That's not the case 99.9% of the time with autoloaders.

Yes, I've had times, usually with reloads, where an out of spec case or such wedged itself in the chamber so tightly that the immediate action of trying to clear it free by hand-cycling didn't work. This happen with a 1911. The slide wouldn't budge and a mallet was needed to free it open and expel the bad round out.

But that's rare. Most "jams" with semis can be freed and cleared by hand. They actually have drills for that, if you check around.

The only immediate-action drill for a revolver with a bound-up cylinder is to, first, cuss a lot and loudly, and second, grab your cell phone and speed-dial your gunsmith.

Carl the Floor Walker · June 21, 2021, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustJake

Majorly missed the point there, bucky ...

Yes, any "gun" can fail. Not the point. Keep 'em clean, yadda, yadda.

Still not the point.

Between those handguns we call revolvers and those we call semi-autos, it indisputable that when a revolver fails in the field - as in a cylinder lock-up - it's utterly and entirely out-of-action. When a wheelgun fails in that way, it's catastrophic in terms of an immediate operational remedy.

That's not the case 99.9% of the time with autoloaders.

Yes, I've had times, usually with reloads, where an out of spec case or such wedged itself in the chamber so tightly that the immediate action of trying to clear it free by hand-cycling didn't work. This happen with a 1911. The slide wouldn't budge and a mallet was needed to free it open and expel the bad round out.

But that's rare. Most "jams" with semis can be freed and cleared by hand. They actually have drills for that, if you check around.

The only immediate-action drill for a revolver with a bound-up cylinder is to, first, cuss a lot and loudly, and second, grab your cell phone and speed-dial your gunsmith.

Yep, bucky, locked up cylinders happen all the time. Very common. Semi's never need repair or have to even be taken to a gun Smith, (well except 1%.)

99% of all failures in semi automatics can be fixed in the field. Wow, the advancements of firearms just keeps marching along.

"Most "jams" with semis can be freed and cleared by hand. They actually have drills for that, if you check around." WOW! they actually have drills to fix jams in semi auto's? Dang what will they think of next?

geologist · June 21, 2021, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Glad you value gold. Know which country has some of the largest amounts of gold? India.

I'll back my US dollar any day over India.

I bought that 3/4 oz nugget in 2001 from an alluvial gold miner, fresh from the creek and paid $220 US per troy ounce so around $165 US.

Now that $165 US can buy less than 1/10 of an ounce of gold.

amd6547 · June 21, 2021, 03:36 PM

My pal was shooting his 357mag Security Six , when he had a squib which pushed the bullet halfway into the forcing cone. Locked his revolver up good...until a rod could be found to push the bullet back into the cylinder. Ammo was a fresh box of Winchester.
Another time, a guy near me at the range was shooting a Ruger LCR, and his rovolver locked up due to the bullet in the fifth round creeping forward from recoil. In that case, I was able to pry the lead bullet out with the tip of my knife. Factory ammo again.

mk70ss · June 21, 2021, 03:58 PM

It’s amazing that for the first 150 years of this nation, that anyone ever survived carrying a revolver. The way all the armchair experts expound on it, you’d think they would have all been killed.

jetinteriorguy · June 21, 2021, 06:23 PM

Interesting how most people don’t consider a semi auto reliable enough for carry unless it’s had at least 500 trouble free rounds through it, but most people who carry revolvers don’t worry if more than maybe a box or so is even really necessary to be considered reliable enough to carry.

mk70ss · June 21, 2021, 06:49 PM

I believe that most people who choose a revolver as their primary home defense or carry gun don’t distrust or dislike semi auto pistols, it’s just a personal preference.

Carl the Floor Walker · June 21, 2021, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mk70ss

It’s amazing that for the first 150 years of this nation, that anyone ever survived carrying a revolver. The way all the armchair experts expound on it, you’d think they would have all been killed.

Now that is funny. And so true. How the heck did they even survive without a High Capacity Micro 9mm? Ya gotta love the internet. Getting back to the original topic, I think there are more than enough post to say, Hell yes they are still relevant. And will be for a very long time.

Kurbsky · June 21, 2021, 09:54 PM

It seems that revolvers will indeed be relevant for some gun collectors, sportsmen, some paranoid homeowners who want to grab that thing from the nighstand to fire all 6 rounds ASAP and some hunters. The reality is - the are no longer being used by the military, police and even by criminals.

Carl the Floor Walker · June 21, 2021, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurbsky

It seems that revolvers will indeed be relevant for some gun collectors, sportsmen, some paranoid homeowners who want to grab that thing from the nighstand to fire all 6 rounds ASAP and some hunters. The reality is - the are no longer being used by the military, police and even by criminals.

This may come as a surprise, but most EDC owners are not police or military. Paranoid home owners only carry revolvers? As opposed to non paranoid home owners that have combat shotguns, AR's and all kinds of Semi's?
So what store do criminals buy their guns? What is their favorite?

Lol, I am having a good time with this. I can picture a ad in a gun magazine saying.
Best Revolver for Paranoid Homeowners.
or
We have in stock, The top 5 guns for the common criminal. So what is the top choice from the crack heads and gangs etc.? I am sure it is a spray and shoot model.
This month, Crack heads and street thugs recommend these models.
Best weapon for Drive by's.

geologist · June 22, 2021, 12:25 AM

Do law enforcement officers, when they need one, carry small pistols more often than small J frame size revolvers as their backup these days?

Radny97 · June 22, 2021, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geologist

Do law enforcement officers, when they need one, carry small pistols more often than small J frame size revolvers as their backup these days?

No. My bro-in-law is high up in the CHP. He says lots of officers (about half) carry a j-frame or LCR in 357 mag as a back up gun. Usually on the chest just above or on top of the plate carrier.
He says that if they have to go to a back up gun it means they’ve likely been disarmed and are hand to hand, so they want a dead reliable gun that won’t jam while grappling (unlike a semi-auto) and that has lots of stopping power. A 357 snubby fits the bill perfectly, so it is a very common choice.
In other words, yes revolvers ARE relevant today. Even in law enforcement. But not as a primary weapon.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Carl the Floor Walker · June 22, 2021, 05:40 AM

Are Revolvers for LE Dead?

"You might not see revolvers in many duty holsters anymore, but they are far from ineffective when they're carried, "

While Police carry a heavy duty gun, they all may not when off duty. I know for a fact that some actually do carry revolvers. And the one's I know are darn good shooters at the club I belong to.

https://www.officer.com/tactical/fir...rs-for-le-dead

jetinteriorguy · June 22, 2021, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurbsky

It seems that revolvers will indeed be relevant for some gun collectors, sportsmen, some paranoid homeowners who want to grab that thing from the nighstand to fire all 6 rounds ASAP and some hunters. The reality is - the are no longer being used by the military, police and even by criminals.

Delete. Decided this post actually not worth replying too.

**Mike Irwin** · June 22, 2021, 06:58 AM

"That's not the case 99.9% of the time with autoloaders. "

99.9? Really? Care to provide the source for your number that cites the research?

And remember, WAG isn't authoritative.

"Yep, bucky, locked up cylinders happen all the time. Very common. "

It's not uncommon for my revolvers to lock up 7 or more times on a SINGLE trigger pull!

About the only thing that is going to catastrophically lock up either a revolver or a semi-auto in the field is a squib load that lodges a bullet in the barrel.

Squib loads are EXCEEDINGLY rare with factory ammunition, likely more common with homebrewed.

There are, however, any number of mechanical issues that can happen with either revolvers OR semi-automatics that will render them out of service and can happen any time.

I've been witness to quite a few instances for both types of handguns over my decades of shooting....

I've seen mainspring failures on revolvers.

I've seen trigger spring failures on semi-autos (Beretta, primarily)

I've seen two piece guide rod failures on semi-autos.

I've seen firing pin breakages in both revolvers AND semi-autos.

I saw a firing pin safety failure on a Colt 1911 that meant that the officer who carried it was likely carrying a completely dead gun on duty for two weeks. He was not happy.

And, I still am not sure what happened, but within 30 rounds my brand new Walther CCP in 9mm locked up completely and had to go back to the Walther to be repaired.

Those are just a few of the failures I've seen over the years for both revolvers and semi-autos.

**Mike Irwin** · June 22, 2021, 07:46 AM

"The reality is - the are no longer being used by the military, police and even by criminals."

Criminals don't use revolvers? I guess that's why police seize so many... revolvers... that have been used in crimes.

wild cat mccane · June 22, 2021, 09:13 AM

New myth introduced.

"police carry j-frames because of close hand combat needs a gun that will always work."

If a slide on an auto is stopping an auto from firing, recall the cylinder rotates on a revolver at the force only by the trigger finger.

So if physically grabbing a revolver with a human hand and hard, where the cylinder is the largest part of it, doesn't stop a cylinder from rotating but does push the slide out of action on an auto, you just might be making stuff up

**44 AMP** · June 22, 2021, 04:11 PM

Quote:

So if physically grabbing a revolver with a human hand and hard, where the cylinder is the largest part of it, doesn't stop a cylinder from rotating but does push the slide out of action on an auto, you just might be making stuff up

It is possible for a sufficiently strong person to grab the cylinder of a revolver and hold it preventing DA firing. This does not matter if the hammer is already cocked, and it is also almost impossible to maintain the hold very long. Simply twisting the gun (and pulling the trigger) will usually result in firing. It is also possible for a person to jam their hand between the cocked hammer and the frame or slide, preventing the hammer from falling enough to fire the gun. Lots of things are possible, which is one of the big reasons for training.

Likewise, many semi autos (primarily service class Browning tilt barrel lock up designs) can have the slide forced back, out of battery enough for the disconnector to not allow the gun to fire. This is difficult to do by gripping the gun, but not impossible, and is much more likely and common to happen when the muzzle of the gun is pressed in contact with the attacker.

It is important to remember that while the guns can be rendered unable to be fired, it is only for a brief instant, and that any change (breaking the attackers tight grip or moving the gun just enough so its not jammed against something means the gun WILL FIRE when you pull the trigger.

It's NOT like what they show in the movies.

mk70ss · June 22, 2021, 04:20 PM

My conclusion is this. There is enough debate on this subject in this thread to PROVE revolvers are still relevant in the gun community. If you can’t see that, you are either obtuse or so jaded in your opinion that no evidence will sway you.

Carl the Floor Walker · June 22, 2021, 06:36 PM

The Hidden Advantage of Shooting Revolvers

Here is something I truly discovered years ago. And I have have posted many times about this. You become a better shooter. And I seriously believe this. In fact the first gun I bought my son after teaching him firearm skills was a LCR22. And told him to practice and train with it often. It will hone your skills better than anything you can do. And for me, it has become my favorite 22.cal range gun.
I do shoot Semi's and carry them, BUT they are DAO. And for me that is the only trigger I want on a firearm, especially for EDC.

Their really is a "HIDDEN ADVANTAGE"

https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/h...ing-revolvers/

Radny97 · June 22, 2021, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wild cat mccane

New myth introduced.

"police carry j-frames because of close hand combat needs a gun that will always work."

If a slide on an auto is stopping an auto from firing, recall the cylinder rotates on a revolver at the force only by the trigger finger.

So if physically grabbing a revolver with a human hand and hard, where the cylinder is the largest part of it, doesn't stop a cylinder from rotating but does push the slide out of action on an auto, you just might be making stuff up

I’m not saying it’s true that revolvers are better for hand to hand struggles, I’m saying that was the rationale used by LE officers known by my brother in law. Myth or not, that was their thinking.
No need to be a jerk about it. Sometimes I forget how much these forums are populated by grumpy old men.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Radny97 · June 22, 2021, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl the Floor Walker

The Hidden Advantage of Shooting Revolvers

Here is something I truly discovered years ago. And I have have posted many times about this. You become a better shooter. And I seriously believe this. In fact the first gun I bought my son after teaching him firearm skills was a LCR22. And told him to practice and train with it often. It will hone your skills better than anything you can do. And for me, it has become my favorite 22.cal range gun.
I do shoot Semi's and carry them, BUT they are DAO. And for me that is the only trigger I want on a firearm, especially for EDC.

Their really is a "HIDDEN ADVANTAGE"

https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/h...ing-revolvers/

Completely agree

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

jetinteriorguy · June 23, 2021, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl the Floor Walker

The Hidden Advantage of Shooting Revolvers

Here is something I truly discovered years ago. And I have have posted many times about this. You become a better shooter. And I seriously believe this. In fact the first gun I bought my son after teaching him firearm skills was a LCR22. And told him to practice and train with it often. It will hone your skills better than anything you can do. And for me, it has become my favorite 22.cal range gun.
I do shoot Semi's and carry them, BUT they are DAO. And for me that is the only trigger I want on a firearm, especially for EDC.

Their really is a "HIDDEN ADVANTAGE"

https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/h...ing-revolvers/

Another thing I’ve learned shooting my revolvers DA, it helps counter act flinching. I actually shoot better DA than SA other than shooting.38sp wadcutters or a .22 where recoil is very light.

**Mike Irwin** · June 23, 2021, 09:50 AM

"It's NOT like what they show in the movies. "

WHAT?

You mean all those movies featuring martial arts master Hoo Flung Pooey Dung disassembling the bad guy's pistol before he can pull the trigger is false?

Rob228 · June 23, 2021, 10:25 AM

I just mentioned in in another thread.... When I was cycling every day I kept a 642 in my jersey pocket. Something about sweat and lithium grease didn't mix and it bound up hard, the lithium grease inside the pistol had almost turned to stone. A thorough cleaning fixed it but it wouldn't have worked had I needed it. Well it would have for one shot, but the trigger stuck to the rear afterwards.

June 21, 2021, 03:36 PM	#154
amd6547 Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2006 Posts: 2,313	My pal was shooting his 357mag Security Six , when he had a squib which pushed the bullet halfway into the forcing cone. Locked his revolver up good...until a rod could be found to push the bullet back into the cylinder. Ammo was a fresh box of Winchester. Another time, a guy near me at the range was shooting a Ruger LCR, and his rovolver locked up due to the bullet in the fifth round creeping forward from recoil. In that case, I was able to pry the lead bullet out with the tip of my knife. Factory ammo again. __________________ The past is gone...the future may never happen. Be Here Now.

June 21, 2021, 03:58 PM	#155
mk70ss Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2008 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,598	It’s amazing that for the first 150 years of this nation, that anyone ever survived carrying a revolver. The way all the armchair experts expound on it, you’d think they would have all been killed. __________________ Say when.....

June 21, 2021, 06:49 PM	#157
mk70ss Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2008 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,598	I believe that most people who choose a revolver as their primary home defense or carry gun don’t distrust or dislike semi auto pistols, it’s just a personal preference. __________________ Say when.....

June 22, 2021, 06:58 AM	#165
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,389	"That's not the case 99.9% of the time with autoloaders. " 99.9? Really? Care to provide the source for your number that cites the research? And remember, WAG isn't authoritative. "Yep, bucky, locked up cylinders happen all the time. Very common. " It's not uncommon for my revolvers to lock up 7 or more times on a SINGLE trigger pull! About the only thing that is going to catastrophically lock up either a revolver or a semi-auto in the field is a squib load that lodges a bullet in the barrel. Squib loads are EXCEEDINGLY rare with factory ammunition, likely more common with homebrewed. There are, however, any number of mechanical issues that can happen with either revolvers OR semi-automatics that will render them out of service and can happen any time. I've been witness to quite a few instances for both types of handguns over my decades of shooting.... I've seen mainspring failures on revolvers. I've seen trigger spring failures on semi-autos (Beretta, primarily) I've seen two piece guide rod failures on semi-autos. I've seen firing pin breakages in both revolvers AND semi-autos. I saw a firing pin safety failure on a Colt 1911 that meant that the officer who carried it was likely carrying a completely dead gun on duty for two weeks. He was not happy. And, I still am not sure what happened, but within 30 rounds my brand new Walther CCP in 9mm locked up completely and had to go back to the Walther to be repaired. Those are just a few of the failures I've seen over the years for both revolvers and semi-autos. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

June 22, 2021, 07:46 AM	#166
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,389	"The reality is - the are no longer being used by the military, police and even by criminals." Criminals don't use revolvers? I guess that's why police seize so many... revolvers... that have been used in crimes. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

June 21, 2021, 06:23 PM	#156
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,175	Interesting how most people don’t consider a semi auto reliable enough for carry unless it’s had at least 500 trouble free rounds through it, but most people who carry revolvers don’t worry if more than maybe a box or so is even really necessary to be considered reliable enough to carry.

June 21, 2021, 09:54 PM	#159
Kurbsky Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2009 Posts: 469	It seems that revolvers will indeed be relevant for some gun collectors, sportsmen, some paranoid homeowners who want to grab that thing from the nighstand to fire all 6 rounds ASAP and some hunters. The reality is - the are no longer being used by the military, police and even by criminals.

June 22, 2021, 12:25 AM	#161
geologist Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2005 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 247	Do law enforcement officers, when they need one, carry small pistols more often than small J frame size revolvers as their backup these days?

June 22, 2021, 05:40 AM	#163
Carl the Floor Walker member Join Date: June 3, 2017 Location: South Posts: 1,422	Are Revolvers for LE Dead? "You might not see revolvers in many duty holsters anymore, but they are far from ineffective when they're carried, " While Police carry a heavy duty gun, they all may not when off duty. I know for a fact that some actually do carry revolvers. And the one's I know are darn good shooters at the club I belong to. https://www.officer.com/tactical/fir...rs-for-le-dead

June 22, 2021, 09:13 AM	#167
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,626	New myth introduced. "police carry j-frames because of close hand combat needs a gun that will always work." If a slide on an auto is stopping an auto from firing, recall the cylinder rotates on a revolver at the force only by the trigger finger. So if physically grabbing a revolver with a human hand and hard, where the cylinder is the largest part of it, doesn't stop a cylinder from rotating but does push the slide out of action on an auto, you just might be making stuff up __________________ My wife is a pulmonologist (respiratory Dr) and epidemiologist. If you have any questions on COVID, please reach out to me in PM.

June 22, 2021, 04:20 PM	#169
mk70ss Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2008 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,598	My conclusion is this. There is enough debate on this subject in this thread to PROVE revolvers are still relevant in the gun community. If you can’t see that, you are either obtuse or so jaded in your opinion that no evidence will sway you. __________________ Say when.....

June 22, 2021, 06:36 PM	#170
Carl the Floor Walker member Join Date: June 3, 2017 Location: South Posts: 1,422	The Hidden Advantage of Shooting Revolvers Here is something I truly discovered years ago. And I have have posted many times about this. You become a better shooter. And I seriously believe this. In fact the first gun I bought my son after teaching him firearm skills was a LCR22. And told him to practice and train with it often. It will hone your skills better than anything you can do. And for me, it has become my favorite 22.cal range gun. I do shoot Semi's and carry them, BUT they are DAO. And for me that is the only trigger I want on a firearm, especially for EDC. Their really is a "HIDDEN ADVANTAGE" https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/h...ing-revolvers/

June 23, 2021, 09:50 AM	#174
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,389	"It's NOT like what they show in the movies. " WHAT? You mean all those movies featuring martial arts master Hoo Flung Pooey Dung disassembling the bad guy's pistol before he can pull the trigger is false? __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

June 23, 2021, 10:25 AM	#175
Rob228 Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2010 Location: Hampstead NC Posts: 1,450	I just mentioned in in another thread.... When I was cycling every day I kept a 642 in my jersey pocket. Something about sweat and lithium grease didn't mix and it bound up hard, the lithium grease inside the pistol had almost turned to stone. A thorough cleaning fixed it but it wouldn't have worked had I needed it. Well it would have for one shot, but the trigger stuck to the rear afterwards.