AR15 Optics: 0-300 yards....out to 500 in a pinch

Nathan · March 30, 2013, 06:43 PM

So, I have an AR....actually 2. One is setup as a short range, lightweight, kid /tactical rifle. The other is a short to mid range SHTF type rifle. Like Nutnfancy says in the video below, I could get a Leupold in the $1500 range and be done, but I really don't need all that...

I need a:
-lightweight <15 oz
-1x-2.5x min for close work
-4x-8x for reaching to 300 and beyond
-need to be able to shoot at night and very fast up close
-need some kind of BDC to get to 500yds
-would like a lit reticle for close work with a big ~15 MOA circle.

Looking at:
Keep my Millet DMS1
Burris MTAC 1-4x
Burris FFII TAC30 1-4x
Leupold?? 2x- or 1x-??
Suggestions?

I thought I woul attach this:

Nutnfancy AR15 Optic Video

This is a pretty good AR optic discussion. It was worth the 53 min of my life. He discusses "real" AR optic use. Some key points:
- Weight - Sure the $2000 big name scopes are great, but they take the fight out of a fighting rifle quick.
- Field of View - This is what allows you to see and shoot well at smell their breath distances.
- Turrets - on a short range 25 - 300yd(not his ranges) these are just weight. A BDC reticle will get you on target quicker in a short range rifle. Also, tactical turrets are costing money in the design which takes away from glass, coatings, etc.
- Objectives - A ring size objective is really too small, especially for night shooting. Something is the 30's is good. 40's and 50 are large for an AR SRT(Short Range Tactical)
- Toughness - If you can avoid banging your scope on the door of an armored vehicle, a normal size/weight scope will be fine.
- math is better than money - This is something I have drawn from real life also. That is a 2x scope with a 30mm objective is pretty bright in any reasonably priced scope. This is due to the exit pupil(30/2=15mm) being soooo large. A 10x scope with 30mm objective has a 3mm exit pupil. Now, a 10x30 can be built that equals the 2x30's brightness, but that costs $3000 for the coatings and glass.
- Non-critical eye relief - This is the key to an SRT scope. Pick the rifle up and shoot. No adjusting. This is why EO Tech's are fast!
-1x - 3x is OK on the bottom end - 3x is a hair slow and a hair dark at night on a SRT, but doable. I like 1x - 2x. This also allows me the smallest possible objective.

He lists by model some really pretty good choices. Well, I'm off to Cabela's to look around more today!

So in a nutshell, I'm going to look for a lightweight 1x - 4x or better a 2x - 7x with a 1" or 30mm tube and ~35mm objective.

Nathan · April 1, 2013, 07:40 PM

Wow. . nobody??

Anybody want to discuss their 1-4x scope?

BerdanSS · April 2, 2013, 04:01 PM

what about the nikon x4 BCD carbine scope? they seem very highly rated, and for a good price.

jmr40 · April 2, 2013, 04:25 PM

I'd use a 1-4X20 or 2-7X32 at most. You don't need a large front objective at those powers for low light shooting. A 4X scope with a 20mm objective lets in exactly the same amount of light as a 10X scope with a 50mm objective.

With your budget I'd be happy with this

http://swfa.com/Leupold-125-4x20-VX-...pe-P49444.aspx

With my budget, this is close enough for me, and what I use.

http://swfa.com/Leupold-1-4x20-VX-1-...pe-P51848.aspx

I really like Leupolds for several reasons. The best eye relief, lighter weight, tough as nails, and great Customer Service in the rare case you need it. You can find equal or better glass for the same or less money, but no one else has the complete package for the dollar to match Leupold.

SSA · April 2, 2013, 04:31 PM

Quote:

A ring size objective is really too small, especially for night shooting

Agree.

Quote:

Something is the 30's is good.

Agree.

Quote:

40's and 50 are large

A 1.5-6X40 would work fine. A 2.5-10X50 will work in less light in some situations.

Quote:

a 2x scope with a 30mm objective is pretty bright

A 2X20 is equally bright.

Quote:

3x is... a hair dark at night

Any of these scopes will be usable in lower light (brighter) at 3X than at 1X.

Quote:

2x - 7x with a 1" or 30mm tube and ~35mm objective

Good choice.

Nathan · April 2, 2013, 08:27 PM

So, anybody know of a 1.5-6x32 with a BDC/CQB reticle, illumination, and weighs under 15 oz?

The Leupold above looked pretty nice and amazingly light!

VegaSSG32 · April 2, 2013, 08:51 PM

Acog,acog,acog!!!!

Nathan · April 2, 2013, 09:02 PM

Why ACOG? I've looked through one. It looked like a 4x scope to me. The glass quality seemed good, but. . . still, it was a $1300 3x or 4x scope. Did I miss something?

Scottish Highlander · April 3, 2013, 02:26 PM

I dont know much about scopes etc but you'll get an ACOG for $200 wont you ??...

Jamie

ronl · April 4, 2013, 06:40 PM

I have a Horus Vision 1-4x24 and it is a very nice optic, but it's weight is the one negative. Great glass and the Horus reticle is excellent. I have it on my M1A. I have no problem taking a 400yd shot with it.

tgreening · April 7, 2013, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Why ACOG? I've looked through one. It looked like a 4x scope to me. The glass quality seemed good, but. . . still, it was a $1300 3x or 4x scope. Did I miss something?

It works great in COD.

Nathan · April 7, 2013, 06:31 PM

Maybe that's why I don't get ACOG's....what is COD?

Nathan · April 7, 2013, 06:35 PM

Quote:

I dont know much about scopes etc but you'll get an ACOG for $200 wont you ??...

Jamie

OK, I'll bite....no, ACOG's start around $1100ish. For $200, you could get a real Chinese quality FakeCOG.

That will make your real ACOG seem that much better!

Dr Big Bird PhD · April 7, 2013, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Maybe that's why I don't get ACOG's....what is COD?

It's a video game (Call of Duty). The joke was that ACOG's in the game work really well so we should all use one on our AR. The funny thing is that ACOG's are actually pretty awkward to play with in video games haha.

ACOGs are great scopes but if you want a variable zoom then don't consider it.

HJ857 · April 8, 2013, 02:59 PM

You didn't really indicate what your price range is and that's a big consideration.

I've been using a Burris 1-4 XTR since they first came out and I like it a lot, but there are very good new options available now. I'm not sure I'd get another one.

I didn't watch that video but I have a couple observations. First, if you want the 1X range, then I'd urge you to go with a true 1X optic, not a 1.2 or 1.65 or 2X. Being able to use it a close range with both eyes open is a huge bonus. If you can't do that, then you may as well just get a 3-9x scope and be done with it.

BDC reticles, in my experience, never match up to how the bullet actually travels. It's good enough at close range but gets a lot worse at distance. It's ok if you can remember you hold over/under.

Magnification is only one aspect of the problem when you get to 300 meters and beyond. Mirage is a significant issue and more magnification often helps to just see the target. 4X is workable in good conditions. Unless your target is huge, like a National Match target. If the target is a IDPA cardboard with a dirt background with heavy mirage, it's a different story.

There was a scope that I want to think is a Vortex, but cannot remember precisely if that's correct, the zoom range is 1-4x but is only switchable, so it's either 1x or it's 4x with nothing between. I think that's perfect because the zoom rings usually stink and the only time I've ever used a magnification other than either 1x or 4x is when I was moving the ring while running from position to position and didn't turn the ring all the way to the stop point. Flipping a lever seems like a better idea.

Going back to the first point, if your budget allows check out the Swarovski Z6i, which is a 1-6x scope, with a price tag to match.

Also the US Optics SR8 1-8x.

March 30, 2013, 06:43 PM	#1
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,325	AR15 Optics: 0-300 yards....out to 500 in a pinch So, I have an AR....actually 2. One is setup as a short range, lightweight, kid /tactical rifle. The other is a short to mid range SHTF type rifle. Like Nutnfancy says in the video below, I could get a Leupold in the $1500 range and be done, but I really don't need all that... I need a: -lightweight <15 oz -1x-2.5x min for close work -4x-8x for reaching to 300 and beyond -need to be able to shoot at night and very fast up close -need some kind of BDC to get to 500yds -would like a lit reticle for close work with a big ~15 MOA circle. Looking at: Keep my Millet DMS1 Burris MTAC 1-4x Burris FFII TAC30 1-4x Leupold?? 2x- or 1x-?? Suggestions? I thought I woul attach this: Nutnfancy AR15 Optic Video This is a pretty good AR optic discussion. It was worth the 53 min of my life. He discusses "real" AR optic use. Some key points: - Weight - Sure the $2000 big name scopes are great, but they take the fight out of a fighting rifle quick. - Field of View - This is what allows you to see and shoot well at smell their breath distances. - Turrets - on a short range 25 - 300yd(not his ranges) these are just weight. A BDC reticle will get you on target quicker in a short range rifle. Also, tactical turrets are costing money in the design which takes away from glass, coatings, etc. - Objectives - A ring size objective is really too small, especially for night shooting. Something is the 30's is good. 40's and 50 are large for an AR SRT(Short Range Tactical) - Toughness - If you can avoid banging your scope on the door of an armored vehicle, a normal size/weight scope will be fine. - math is better than money - This is something I have drawn from real life also. That is a 2x scope with a 30mm objective is pretty bright in any reasonably priced scope. This is due to the exit pupil(30/2=15mm) being soooo large. A 10x scope with 30mm objective has a 3mm exit pupil. Now, a 10x30 can be built that equals the 2x30's brightness, but that costs $3000 for the coatings and glass. - Non-critical eye relief - This is the key to an SRT scope. Pick the rifle up and shoot. No adjusting. This is why EO Tech's are fast! -1x - 3x is OK on the bottom end - 3x is a hair slow and a hair dark at night on a SRT, but doable. I like 1x - 2x. This also allows me the smallest possible objective. He lists by model some really pretty good choices. Well, I'm off to Cabela's to look around more today! So in a nutshell, I'm going to look for a lightweight 1x - 4x or better a 2x - 7x with a 1" or 30mm tube and ~35mm objective.

April 2, 2013, 08:51 PM	#7
VegaSSG32 Member Join Date: January 19, 2013 Posts: 62	Acog,acog,acog!!!! __________________ A Soldier is he who's Blood makes the Glory of the General...

April 1, 2013, 07:40 PM	#2
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,325	Wow. . nobody?? Anybody want to discuss their 1-4x scope?

April 2, 2013, 04:01 PM	#3
BerdanSS Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2011 Location: to close to other houses Posts: 1,176	what about the nikon x4 BCD carbine scope? they seem very highly rated, and for a good price.

April 2, 2013, 04:25 PM	#4
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,805	I'd use a 1-4X20 or 2-7X32 at most. You don't need a large front objective at those powers for low light shooting. A 4X scope with a 20mm objective lets in exactly the same amount of light as a 10X scope with a 50mm objective. With your budget I'd be happy with this http://swfa.com/Leupold-125-4x20-VX-...pe-P49444.aspx With my budget, this is close enough for me, and what I use. http://swfa.com/Leupold-1-4x20-VX-1-...pe-P51848.aspx I really like Leupolds for several reasons. The best eye relief, lighter weight, tough as nails, and great Customer Service in the rare case you need it. You can find equal or better glass for the same or less money, but no one else has the complete package for the dollar to match Leupold.

April 2, 2013, 08:27 PM	#6
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,325	So, anybody know of a 1.5-6x32 with a BDC/CQB reticle, illumination, and weighs under 15 oz? The Leupold above looked pretty nice and amazingly light!

April 2, 2013, 09:02 PM	#8
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,325	Why ACOG? I've looked through one. It looked like a 4x scope to me. The glass quality seemed good, but. . . still, it was a $1300 3x or 4x scope. Did I miss something?

April 3, 2013, 02:26 PM	#9
Scottish Highlander Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2013 Posts: 127	I dont know much about scopes etc but you'll get an ACOG for $200 wont you ??... Jamie

April 4, 2013, 06:40 PM	#10
ronl Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Posts: 1,100	I have a Horus Vision 1-4x24 and it is a very nice optic, but it's weight is the one negative. Great glass and the Horus reticle is excellent. I have it on my M1A. I have no problem taking a 400yd shot with it.

April 7, 2013, 06:31 PM	#12
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,325	Maybe that's why I don't get ACOG's....what is COD?

April 8, 2013, 02:59 PM	#15
HJ857 Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2007 Posts: 447	You didn't really indicate what your price range is and that's a big consideration. I've been using a Burris 1-4 XTR since they first came out and I like it a lot, but there are very good new options available now. I'm not sure I'd get another one. I didn't watch that video but I have a couple observations. First, if you want the 1X range, then I'd urge you to go with a true 1X optic, not a 1.2 or 1.65 or 2X. Being able to use it a close range with both eyes open is a huge bonus. If you can't do that, then you may as well just get a 3-9x scope and be done with it. BDC reticles, in my experience, never match up to how the bullet actually travels. It's good enough at close range but gets a lot worse at distance. It's ok if you can remember you hold over/under. Magnification is only one aspect of the problem when you get to 300 meters and beyond. Mirage is a significant issue and more magnification often helps to just see the target. 4X is workable in good conditions. Unless your target is huge, like a National Match target. If the target is a IDPA cardboard with a dirt background with heavy mirage, it's a different story. There was a scope that I want to think is a Vortex, but cannot remember precisely if that's correct, the zoom range is 1-4x but is only switchable, so it's either 1x or it's 4x with nothing between. I think that's perfect because the zoom rings usually stink and the only time I've ever used a magnification other than either 1x or 4x is when I was moving the ring while running from position to position and didn't turn the ring all the way to the stop point. Flipping a lever seems like a better idea. Going back to the first point, if your budget allows check out the Swarovski Z6i, which is a 1-6x scope, with a price tag to match. Also the US Optics SR8 1-8x.