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Old September 3, 2017, 06:49 PM   #1
mehavey
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So I went out and got another 870 Express....

... Tho this time it was as Remington_Express Tactical "A-TAC" Demo model that had seen some reasonable shooting at corporate.



Being a smoothbore/cylinder, I went through about 7 different brands of slug looking for its favorite food. I found that it really liked the old-fashioned/naked Foster slug in both the Remington 1oz "Slugger" (clover-leaf at 50) and Winchester's similar 1oz "Rifled Slug HP (almost clover leaf).

In fact it ate everything so well -- even though all the bases were clearly copper-coated steel --that I said to myself..."Self, they've fixed the extraction jam when using ElCheapo Winchester WhiteBox...."

....That's wrong....

First ElCheapoWhitebox round req'd me to butt-stroke the bench to get it out. Being stupid, I tried it again. (RESULT: What part of stupid did I fail to understand ?)

Irritated (remember, I'd done this before w/ an Express that I bought for I son-in-law), I hauled out my old WingMaster and two more of my reeeeally older Model-12s.

Smooth as silk.

Now I'll grant you that this is cheap ammo (Win WhiteBox, Win "USA" and Field & Stream "Game & Target" all appear to be made by the same Federal outfit in Akron). And since it functions just fine in the old guns, I can't particularly blame Federal.... BUT....



But I sure wish Remington would get its act together after all these years of "Express" problems.

Last edited by mehavey; September 3, 2017 at 07:01 PM.
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Old September 3, 2017, 07:19 PM   #2
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In the quest for lower prices no one polishes stuff like they used to. I have seen Novas, Mossbergs, Mavericks, Pardners, Expresses, and even a BPS being beat on to get these shells out. They don't beat Ithacas because they will break ( ).
If it bothers you get a cheap drum brake wheel cylinder hone ($8-$12) and hone that chamber.
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Old September 3, 2017, 08:10 PM   #3
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Quote:
If it bothers you get a cheap drum brake wheel cylinder hone ($8-$12) and hone that chamber.
Again, see https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...7&postcount=25 of the op cit reference.

In my opinion, there's some else at work here other than just "polish".
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Old September 3, 2017, 11:30 PM   #4
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Wrapping a brush with metal wool and spinning it is burnishing. Honing with the small flat stones removes and roughness and ridges. I haven't done one yet that it didn't solve the issue.
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Old September 4, 2017, 07:46 AM   #5
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Ithaca owners don't shoot cheap shells.
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Old September 4, 2017, 08:57 AM   #6
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Quote:
Ithaca owners don't shoot cheap shells.
I know a guy who refutes that. He shoots pretty good with them too.
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Old September 4, 2017, 09:13 AM   #7
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Like good girls go to heaven, and baaad girls go everywhere....
Ithacas shoot ANYthing.




Be that as it may.....

I went out this morning; pulled the gun apart; put a folded-in-half/spiraled sheet of 320-then-400 into my usual spit 3/8" dowel trick.... and ran two 90-sec sessions each into the chamber using a cordless drill and cutting oil.

Going out to the range now w/ ElCheapoGrande brand now....

Film at Eleven.
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Old September 4, 2017, 09:28 AM   #8
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Check the barrel extension for rough machining. On some barrels that roughness will cause any shell to hang up on extraction.
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Old September 4, 2017, 11:48 AM   #9
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and I thought Ithaca ..just made spare boat paddles........ wow...
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Old September 4, 2017, 12:16 PM   #10
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I guess a Ithaca could be used as a boat paddle, but at $865.00 is a little pricey.
That is for the waterfowl special.
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Old September 4, 2017, 01:44 PM   #11
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Quote:
I went out this morning; pulled the gun apart; put a folded-in-half/spiraled sheet of
320-then-400 into my usual spit 3/8" dowel trick.... and ran two 90-sec sessions
each into the chamber using a cordless drill and cutting oil.

Going out to the range now w/ ElCheapoGrande brand now....
Back....

"Improved" Ran a combined box-worth of the Cheapos mentioned above.

Only had two that required table banging; Most shucked reasonably cleanly; and a half-dozen req'd I push the slide forward before it would release/back cleanly.

Came back and did it again starting with 220 through 600grit
The thing's a doggoned mirror.

Film at Six.....
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Old September 4, 2017, 04:44 PM   #12
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OK... improved on "improved." Give it 95% function w/ the cheap stuff, though still prefers that the slide unlock things forward before clean extract rearward.

Given the comparison with my old Wingmaster whose chamber gets NO attention while just sitting around for years upon years before being brought back into play, I give it as a fixed opinion that there's something wrong with the way Remington cuts/shapes the chamber itself that it wants to hang onto the cartridge base
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Old September 4, 2017, 07:53 PM   #13
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And we have the cause...... (870 Extraction Problems)



Which also explains why shucking forward before extraction backward "unlocks" the rim.
It effectively raises the base/whole case back into centered alignment in the chamber and
releases the rim where it's fire-formed/jammed into the machining grooves.

Some careful Dremel/coarse buffing wheel should knock the edges off/smooth the surface.

But that's tomorrow.
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Old September 4, 2017, 09:52 PM   #14
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I have seen a bunch with those marks that have absolutely zero issues. Rim should not even hit up there.
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Old September 4, 2017, 10:34 PM   #15
mehavey
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We'll see.

Right now the chamber is an absolute mirror and there are no sharp edges anywhere... and it still tries to lock up w/ cheap thin/steel base/rim material that does not retract after pressure drops

Added Note: when i drop a fired case (one of those more expensive/non-elcheapo) back in the chamber, there's at least 25-thou rim clearance between the rim and the barrel's rim rebate, except in that recoil lug area with the machine marks and the entire lug circumference out to the extractor groove. there, it's tight interference fit -- and that's with good brass.

So as sherlock holmes says... when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

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Old September 5, 2017, 07:23 PM   #16
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OKAY......


The problem appears to be (1) badly cut rim clearance opposite the extractor, as well as residual machining ridges in the same area. Both combine to "jam" the ElCheapoExpanded rim against non-existent clearance when the extractor tries to pull [one side of] the opposite side of the rim free.

So after some veewy, veewy careful dremel tool work with LOTSA cutting oil and moderate speeds on the area opposite the extractor....



Deep Breath...
High Brass Remington Slug. Perfect extraction/ejection
Low brass Double-A.... Perfect extraction/ejection

REALLY HOLD BREATH....
25 continuous rounds (7ea at a whack) of mixed low-brass Godawful ElCheapoGrande thin steel bases mentioned in the OP:
Every one slicker than Nasal Mucus --- (Wow !)

.

Last edited by mehavey; September 5, 2017 at 11:41 PM.
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Old September 6, 2017, 07:53 AM   #17
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I always love the universal cure of "polish the Chamber"
when the problem is somewhere else.

It is not the fault of the gun's design but rather increased production numbers.

The 870 is one of the great gun design in history.
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