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January 18, 2021, 06:22 PM | #51 | |
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Quote:
https://www.defensereview.com/russia...-applications/
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January 19, 2021, 12:09 PM | #52 |
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Makes me wonder if my 9mm Fiocchi was +p or +p+. That was some pretty snappy stuff.
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January 20, 2021, 04:40 AM | #53 | |
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screw SAAMI
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It does not mean anything other than the manufacturer does not care about the pressure; it may be anywhere on the spectrum. It just doesn't adhere to SAAMI. 'We' normally consider +P+ to mean high pressure, but it is not always so. Ask me how I know.
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January 20, 2021, 04:41 AM | #54 | |
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It's a calculus problem. Focus on the area under the pressure-travel curve -- the average pressure exerted on the projectile by the propellant -- not solely the peak pressure figure, which is achieved for only a very small fraction of the time that the bullet is in the barrel. |
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January 20, 2021, 08:11 AM | #55 | |
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The US military is shooting +P+ now?
Quote:
Good point, thank you. Though in this particular case Fiocchi doesn’t list a cartridge on its website that performs as was suggested. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Last edited by TunnelRat; January 20, 2021 at 08:18 AM. |
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January 20, 2021, 10:06 AM | #56 | |
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Are you saying that +P+ could mean the pressure is within standard non+P pressure limits? |
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January 21, 2021, 12:25 AM | #57 |
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I know of at least one commercial 9mm +P+ loading that conforms to SAAMI 9mm +P standards. When I contacted them, the manufacturer stated that the pressure was, in fact, the maximum allowable 9mm +P pressure.
I have speculated that perhaps the manufacturer was concerned that the loading might exceed 9mm +P in certain circumstances (e.g. high temperatures) and therefore felt like they should market it as +P+ to be safe. But I don't know for sure why they made the decision.
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January 21, 2021, 08:47 AM | #58 |
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For what it's worth the M1152 isn't marked anywhere as being +P+
The box has a small warning that it is loaded 10% to 15% higher than industry standard.
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January 21, 2021, 10:13 AM | #59 |
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The US military is shooting +P+ now?
Which I believe is the same warning on their commercial “NATO” product.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
January 21, 2021, 01:27 PM | #60 | |
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Quote:
And yes, +P+ ammo can be within SAAMI specs, and in fact can be 'standard', low, or over-SAAMI pressures.
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January 21, 2021, 05:03 PM | #61 |
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S&B 9mm 115gr (normal 9mm 115gr load) is 1,280FPS
https://www.sellierbellot.us/product...es/detail/290/ Fiocchi 9APHP is at 1250fps. Fiocchi 9AP 115gr was printed at 1250fps until a bit ago. Both Fiocchi loads are not marked +P but Fiocchi does have a +P 38 special round... Whinchster RA9115HP at 1335FPS on the box. Federal Classic is 1300fps. https://le.vistaoutdoor.com/ammuniti...ls.aspx?id=526 Speer Gold Dot 53612 is 1300fps on the box. 124gr +P can clock in at 1300fps in full sized 5" barrel. 9mm Major your looking at 1400FPS. This is not a magic or unique round. Didn't even mention BB, DT, Underwood with their lack of pressure testing compared to Federal/Speer/etc.
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January 21, 2021, 05:10 PM | #62 |
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Have to do conversions yourself, but the fiocchi non usa website:
https://www.fiocchi.com/en/category/...ne-cal-9-luger meters per second conversion to feet per second. There are your 1300fps fiocchi loads.
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January 21, 2021, 05:59 PM | #63 |
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The US military is shooting +P+ now?
Fiocchi has a USA website with FPS measurements there. Fastest thing listed is at 1280 FPS. It’s a 100 gr bullet, not 124 gr which is what was stated in the comment I originally responded to and the comment AustinTX is quoting.
https://fiocchiusa.com/shop/ammo/handguns/9-luger.html Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Last edited by TunnelRat; January 21, 2021 at 06:07 PM. |
January 21, 2021, 07:14 PM | #64 |
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January 21, 2021, 07:30 PM | #65 | |
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Quote:
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January 22, 2021, 02:37 AM | #66 |
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Yes. Don't go to the Fiocchi USA website.
If you have Fiocchi in that green/red box before the recent change, you're likely dealing with these: https://www.fiocchi.com/en/category/...istol-revolver Federal Classic +P+ still being made. 1,300FPS.
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January 22, 2021, 06:13 AM | #67 | |
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Quote:
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January 22, 2021, 07:57 AM | #68 | |
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The US military is shooting +P+ now?
Quote:
The fastest velocity listed at that link is 390 m/s, which is 1280 FPS. It’s a 115 gr bullet. The only reason I even commented about this again was because AustinTX made a point about total pressure versus peak pressure. I really have no desire to go through a series of back and forth with you again. It’s one cartridge variant from one manufacturer. It’s not really something to get worked up over. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Last edited by TunnelRat; January 22, 2021 at 08:20 AM. |
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January 22, 2021, 10:24 AM | #69 |
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And I'm just saying that round is nothing special and the world "developed" is being used to make the buyer believe a 9mm 115gr at 1300fps on a truncated bullet is new, believe this is the US military round, and it's being shot in mass.
It isn't. The magazine articles that just keep citing each other are wrong. Proven by financial data that this round isn't even a small portion of the US military's training. (though written a while back and the finance data is current)
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January 22, 2021, 10:59 AM | #70 |
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I assume they don't pressure check.
Look at BB website FAQ question 1 talking about the .380 +P https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...ct_list&c=62#1. BB says they have shot their ammo through LCPs. They don't say they pressure check their ammo like the big manufactures (include Winchester that this thread is about)
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January 22, 2021, 12:12 PM | #71 |
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January 22, 2021, 04:52 PM | #72 |
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If they are selling ".380 +P" which isn't a SAAMI or CIP rating which are the two standards for pressure checking...how do you suggest they are pressure checking their ammo?
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January 22, 2021, 06:28 PM | #73 | |
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Did you ask BB, DT or Underwood if they test the chamber pressure of their loads? Did you? You just said you made it up. Re-read your post. You just said you made it up. Do you not understand what you said? I find it concerning that you would make something up out of thin air, since this erodes your reputation for posting factual information, and folks would have a good reason to not believe your future and past posts. Ironically, if they say they are selling +p 380 ammo, it implies they tested chamber pressure in order to make that statement, otherwise they would not know that it was over standard pressure limits. It's certainly not an argument for not pressure testing their ammo. |
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January 22, 2021, 07:25 PM | #74 | |
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https://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_P_ammo.htm
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January 25, 2021, 09:51 AM | #75 |
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Not to be a pill, but here is another marketing lie to consumers. This time by Remington (just bought by Northrop Grumman--capitalism created an ammo monopoly) who does not currently produce over run or any run for the military:
https://www.weaponspro.com/products/...mb9mm3upc-3460
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