Question on Class III and BATFE No-Warrants

FrontSight · February 16, 2007, 01:27 PM

Hi,

Does having a Class III license open up your home to No-Warrant searches by the BATFE? I thought that was just with FFL's and only if your home is your place of business, but someone else on another site said yadda yadda yadda...

Thanks!

shaggy · February 16, 2007, 01:40 PM

If by "Class 3 license" you mean a non-FFL/SOT having a registered NFA weapon, the answer is no. The forms for a non-FFL/SOT individual to transfer/possess/manufacture an NFA weapon are an application and a tax filing. By filing the tax and making the application you do not give up any rights you would otherwise have. BATFE or any other LEA can demand to see the paperwork, but they cannot enter your home without a proper warrant. That said, if there's something amiss in either their records (the NFRTR) or with your paperwork, they'll be able to get that warrant ASAP.

If by "Class 3 license" you mean a licensed dealer or manufacturer of NFA weapons, the answer is yes, as it would be with the business premises and inventory of any FFL.

FrontSight · February 16, 2007, 02:23 PM

Thanks very much, yes, the first explanation is the one I meant, and is as I thought...

rkba_net · February 17, 2007, 01:58 AM

Even with an FFL the BATFE does not have the authority to inspected ones home without a warrant... only the licensed premises.

James K · February 17, 2007, 03:22 PM

There has been a rumor around for years that if you own an NFA firearm BATFE will "inspect" your home, or come in without a warrant to make sure you still have the gun, etc. Not true. A registered NFA firearm is no more illegal than your TV set and your ownership of one does not give anyone the right to search or inspect your home without the proper warrant.

In fact the only time I can conceive that BATFE would even care would be if a gun registered to you turned up in the wrong hands, or there was some error with the gun ID or serial number. Then, they might want to make sure your gun is still where it should be and to clear up any misunderstanding. But they would do that by phone or a visit, with no problem (unless, of course, you really did sell the gun to Public Enemy No. 1).

Jim

MDW Guns · February 18, 2007, 06:39 PM

By the way, the $200 is a tax and not a license.
The big differnce is, that a license has a limit.
The $200 NFA is a one time tax you pay. When you die, your son/daughter will get then the NFA item. He does not have to pay again the $200 and they can't take the NFA item!

Dave Haven · February 18, 2007, 11:46 PM

Quote:

There has been a rumor around for years that if you own an NFA firearm BATFE will "inspect" your home, or come in without a warrant to make sure you still have the gun, etc. Not true.

I have a friend who works for BATFE. He's one of two local agents. He's rather amused by these rumors.
Maybe I should invite him over for a beer and show him my "toys" so I can tell people that BATFE has been to my residence to inspect my firearms.

Hkmp5sd · February 19, 2007, 07:33 AM

I've had both NFA toys and a C&R license for around 20 years now and have never seen an ATF agent. I know there's one around here somewhere because they have a local telephone number listed in the book.

Brenden · February 20, 2007, 05:08 PM

I always hear of the "searches",but do not see where it has occurred

Dave Haven · February 20, 2007, 11:27 PM

I've had registered NFA toys for over 25 years, and BATFE has NEVER been to my residence.

James K · February 21, 2007, 02:33 PM

I registered seven NFA firearms in the 1968 amnesty and never had any further dealing with BATFE except to report a change of address.

Jim

Dave Haven · February 21, 2007, 09:44 PM

Quote:

...never had any further dealing with BATFE except to report a change of address.

I had to do that twice; when I bought and moved to my current residence, and when the rural fire dept. changed my street address number.
My BATFE agent friend told me, "We're not concerned with guys like you; we're more concerned with the @$$hole criminals with unregistered stuff".

February 16, 2007, 01:27 PM	#1
FrontSight Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2005 Posts: 1,712	Question on Class III and BATFE No-Warrants Hi, Does having a Class III license open up your home to No-Warrant searches by the BATFE? I thought that was just with FFL's and only if your home is your place of business, but someone else on another site said yadda yadda yadda... Thanks!

February 18, 2007, 06:39 PM	#6
MDW Guns Member Join Date: January 31, 2006 Location: Maine USA Posts: 86	By the way, the $200 is a tax and not a license. The big differnce is, that a license has a limit. The $200 NFA is a one time tax you pay. When you die, your son/daughter will get then the NFA item. He does not have to pay again the $200 and they can't take the NFA item! __________________ ARMED MEN ARE CITIZENS UNARMED MEN ARE SUBJECTS NRA, FWR 2711 Check www.mdwguns.com for great deals!

February 20, 2007, 05:08 PM	#9
Brenden Member Join Date: February 9, 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 94	I always hear of the "searches",but do not see where it has occurred __________________ NRA Life Patron Member MGO SAFR JPFO

February 16, 2007, 01:40 PM	#2
shaggy Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2004 Posts: 1,519	If by "Class 3 license" you mean a non-FFL/SOT having a registered NFA weapon, the answer is no. The forms for a non-FFL/SOT individual to transfer/possess/manufacture an NFA weapon are an application and a tax filing. By filing the tax and making the application you do not give up any rights you would otherwise have. BATFE or any other LEA can demand to see the paperwork, but they cannot enter your home without a proper warrant. That said, if there's something amiss in either their records (the NFRTR) or with your paperwork, they'll be able to get that warrant ASAP. If by "Class 3 license" you mean a licensed dealer or manufacturer of NFA weapons, the answer is yes, as it would be with the business premises and inventory of any FFL.

February 16, 2007, 02:23 PM	#3
FrontSight Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2005 Posts: 1,712	Thanks very much, yes, the first explanation is the one I meant, and is as I thought...

February 17, 2007, 01:58 AM	#4
rkba_net Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2000 Posts: 153	Even with an FFL the BATFE does not have the authority to inspected ones home without a warrant... only the licensed premises.

February 17, 2007, 03:22 PM	#5
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	There has been a rumor around for years that if you own an NFA firearm BATFE will "inspect" your home, or come in without a warrant to make sure you still have the gun, etc. Not true. A registered NFA firearm is no more illegal than your TV set and your ownership of one does not give anyone the right to search or inspect your home without the proper warrant. In fact the only time I can conceive that BATFE would even care would be if a gun registered to you turned up in the wrong hands, or there was some error with the gun ID or serial number. Then, they might want to make sure your gun is still where it should be and to clear up any misunderstanding. But they would do that by phone or a visit, with no problem (unless, of course, you really did sell the gun to Public Enemy No. 1). Jim

February 19, 2007, 07:33 AM	#8
Hkmp5sd Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2001 Location: Winter Haven, Florida Posts: 4,303	I've had both NFA toys and a C&R license for around 20 years now and have never seen an ATF agent. I know there's one around here somewhere because they have a local telephone number listed in the book.

February 20, 2007, 11:27 PM	#10
Dave Haven Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2000 Location: near Flagstaff, AZ Posts: 790	I've had registered NFA toys for over 25 years, and BATFE has NEVER been to my residence.

February 21, 2007, 02:33 PM	#11
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I registered seven NFA firearms in the 1968 amnesty and never had any further dealing with BATFE except to report a change of address. Jim