Neck sizing...

Plainsman · November 26, 1998, 03:36 PM

I have been contemplating going to neck sizing my .25-06 and .223 brass. What do you consider the benefits of doing this are? Can it be done with FL sizing dies? IF not, where can I get neck sizing dies?
Thank you!
PLainsman :-)

------------------

Ed · November 26, 1998, 09:47 PM

I usually neck size only for my 6.5 Swede, and it works out better than full length sizing for me on that rifle. There are several advantages IMO. One is that your brass will last longer due to less "working" the metal. The case will eventually develop a crack at the mouth, but it's easy to see. Another advantage is headspacing. If you don't set the neck back by full length sizing, the case will always be properly headspaced in that rifle. Of course, if you load the same caliber for more than one gun, you have to keep the cases separated for each gun.

I use the regular full length die for neck sizing. Just back the die out a couple turns or so, and try a case. When you get to where the sizing marks stop just shy of the beginning of the shoulder, lock the die down and you're there. It takes a little fiddling around with the die depth, but it's not difficult at all.

I'm sure you know that neck sized cases usually won't work in lever, pump., or semi-auto actions. At least that's what I've heard, I have never tried it myself.

Ed · November 26, 1998, 09:51 PM

In my previous post I meant to say that if you don't set the SHOULDER back, the case will be properly headspaced for that rifle. Sometimes I get a short circuit between brain and fingers.

Art Eatman · November 28, 1998, 06:06 PM

Concur with Ed, on "how to". I've only done necksizing on bottle-necked rifle cartridge cases since I got into the game in 1950. Never a problem. However, when I've scrounged once-fired brass, I full-length re-size the first time I load; neck-size thereafter.

You can probably get 20 or more reloadings before you need to anneal the brass. It's easy to do. Put the cases upright in a flat pan, with water level in the pan around the brass to about 3/8" below the shoulder. Use some sort of propane or acetylene torch and heat the cases to just a dull red. Then, joggle the pan. This annealing softens the case-necks from the work-hardening due to all the resizings...

I'd check the case lengths every four or five reloads, on general principles, although I've never had to trim much off '06 or .243 brass.

Good luck and fun shooting!

Art Eatman · November 28, 1998, 06:07 PM

Concur with Ed, on "how to". I've only done necksizing on bottle-necked rifle cartridge cases since I got into the game in 1950. Never a problem. However, when I've scrounged once-fired brass, I full-length re-size the first time I load; neck-size thereafter.

You can probably get 20 or more reloadings before you need to anneal the brass. It's easy to do. Put the cases upright in a flat pan, with water level in the pan around the brass to about 3/8" below the shoulder. Use some sort of propane or acetylene torch and heat the cases to just a dull red. Then, joggle the pan. This annealing softens the case-necks from the work-hardening due to all the resizings...

I'd check the case lengths every four or five reloads, on general principles, although I've never had to trim much off '06 or .243 brass.

Good luck and fun shooting!

Cheapo · November 28, 1998, 11:25 PM

I concur with all of the above, except for the '50s vintage neck annealing instructions. More recent info shows that even the dullest red heat in the dimmest light anneals the brass too much, all the way to dead soft. Neck tension and bullet pull wind up being too light for the next few loadings. IIRC, the excessively high heat results in a really large "grain size" in the metal as well.

The better approach is to just dip the cases in molten lead until the mid-body gets on the uncomfortable side to hold. Then drop the cases in the friendly pail of water.

Keep the water bucket way down on the floor and a bit to the side, too. No splashes allowed in your lead pot! Carefully segregate brass and dry your hands, etc., so you don't experience explosive boiling launching tiny lead particles your way. As should be done even with the torch on cases in the pan technique, ALWAYS wear eye protection.

Regards,
Cheapo

Art Eatman · December 2, 1998, 12:51 AM

Cheapo: Thanks for the update on annealing. I only tried it once, out of curiosity. Must have been back in the '50s, come to think of it. Don't recall any particular problems, but why take a chance if there's a better way?

Of course, for common cartridges, there's so much free brass from non-reloaders that my usual problem has been storage space...

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November 26, 1998, 03:36 PM	#1
Plainsman Member Join Date: October 31, 1998 Location: Grand Forks, ND, USA, NA Posts: 53	I have been contemplating going to neck sizing my .25-06 and .223 brass. What do you consider the benefits of doing this are? Can it be done with FL sizing dies? IF not, where can I get neck sizing dies? Thank you! PLainsman :-) ------------------

November 26, 1998, 09:47 PM	#2
Ed Member Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Geogia, USA Posts: 85	I usually neck size only for my 6.5 Swede, and it works out better than full length sizing for me on that rifle. There are several advantages IMO. One is that your brass will last longer due to less "working" the metal. The case will eventually develop a crack at the mouth, but it's easy to see. Another advantage is headspacing. If you don't set the neck back by full length sizing, the case will always be properly headspaced in that rifle. Of course, if you load the same caliber for more than one gun, you have to keep the cases separated for each gun. I use the regular full length die for neck sizing. Just back the die out a couple turns or so, and try a case. When you get to where the sizing marks stop just shy of the beginning of the shoulder, lock the die down and you're there. It takes a little fiddling around with the die depth, but it's not difficult at all. I'm sure you know that neck sized cases usually won't work in lever, pump., or semi-auto actions. At least that's what I've heard, I have never tried it myself.

November 26, 1998, 09:51 PM	#3
Ed Member Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Geogia, USA Posts: 85	In my previous post I meant to say that if you don't set the SHOULDER back, the case will be properly headspaced for that rifle. Sometimes I get a short circuit between brain and fingers.

November 28, 1998, 06:06 PM	#4
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Concur with Ed, on "how to". I've only done necksizing on bottle-necked rifle cartridge cases since I got into the game in 1950. Never a problem. However, when I've scrounged once-fired brass, I full-length re-size the first time I load; neck-size thereafter. You can probably get 20 or more reloadings before you need to anneal the brass. It's easy to do. Put the cases upright in a flat pan, with water level in the pan around the brass to about 3/8" below the shoulder. Use some sort of propane or acetylene torch and heat the cases to just a dull red. Then, joggle the pan. This annealing softens the case-necks from the work-hardening due to all the resizings... I'd check the case lengths every four or five reloads, on general principles, although I've never had to trim much off '06 or .243 brass. Good luck and fun shooting!

November 28, 1998, 06:07 PM	#5
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Concur with Ed, on "how to". I've only done necksizing on bottle-necked rifle cartridge cases since I got into the game in 1950. Never a problem. However, when I've scrounged once-fired brass, I full-length re-size the first time I load; neck-size thereafter. You can probably get 20 or more reloadings before you need to anneal the brass. It's easy to do. Put the cases upright in a flat pan, with water level in the pan around the brass to about 3/8" below the shoulder. Use some sort of propane or acetylene torch and heat the cases to just a dull red. Then, joggle the pan. This annealing softens the case-necks from the work-hardening due to all the resizings... I'd check the case lengths every four or five reloads, on general principles, although I've never had to trim much off '06 or .243 brass. Good luck and fun shooting!

November 28, 1998, 11:25 PM	#6
Cheapo Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1998 Posts: 986	I concur with all of the above, except for the '50s vintage neck annealing instructions. More recent info shows that even the dullest red heat in the dimmest light anneals the brass too much, all the way to dead soft. Neck tension and bullet pull wind up being too light for the next few loadings. IIRC, the excessively high heat results in a really large "grain size" in the metal as well. The better approach is to just dip the cases in molten lead until the mid-body gets on the uncomfortable side to hold. Then drop the cases in the friendly pail of water. Keep the water bucket way down on the floor and a bit to the side, too. No splashes allowed in your lead pot! Carefully segregate brass and dry your hands, etc., so you don't experience explosive boiling launching tiny lead particles your way. As should be done even with the torch on cases in the pan technique, ALWAYS wear eye protection. Regards, Cheapo

December 2, 1998, 12:51 AM	#7
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Cheapo: Thanks for the update on annealing. I only tried it once, out of curiosity. Must have been back in the '50s, come to think of it. Don't recall any particular problems, but why take a chance if there's a better way? Of course, for common cartridges, there's so much free brass from non-reloaders that my usual problem has been storage space...