Question about Bullseye rules

spacecoast · August 28, 2011, 07:00 PM

I've been shooting Bullseye matches for a while and would like to know if it's permissible to load an extra round in either the magazine or cylinder in case you have a misfire/misfeed and have time to clear and squeeze off the extra round in either Timed or Rapid Fire. I realize that the official command is always "With 5 rounds... load" but I'm not sure that precludes loading an extra round. It seems that this would enable the match to proceed more smoothly and quickly with fewer refires. As long as you fired only 5 of the 6 rounds you originally loaded, would this be a rules violation?

kraigwy · August 28, 2011, 07:43 PM

Correct, the command is "With five rounds load" meaning 5 not 6 rounds.

Firing an extra shot will get your highest shot counted as a miss. So lets assume you fire 5 rounds, the targets turn and you let a 6th round go but missed the target.

What happens is you loose the high shot on the target. Lets say you score 5 tens, and 5 nines ( you fire two mags of 5 rounds). You loose one of the tens so you score is 4 tens, 5 nines and one miss or 85 points.

Of course if you fire both strings firing an extra shots, you get two misses or 20 points.

There is no need. If there is a legit malfunction, you get an alibi string.

There is no excuse for trying to skirt around the rules, (AKS "cheat"). I think more effort would be to practice more shooting right.

spacecoast · August 29, 2011, 05:30 AM

Kraig, I'm not sure the situation you described is the same. I'm not asking about actually firing a sixth shot, but about ejecting or skipping a live round if for some reason it doesn't fire. Only five shots would actually be fired, but you would have an extra round available if you had a misfeed or light primer strike. Legal?

4EVERM-14 · August 29, 2011, 02:25 PM

Quote:

the command is "With five rounds load" meaning 5 not 6 rounds.

That is the key phrase. Any deviation from the command may constitute a"Refusal To Obey" violation[9.33] or "Evasion Of The Rules"[9.34]
The idea of having an extra round available is not bad but it may create a safety issue for the match officials. Getting distracted, which happens to all of us, could result in a hazardous situation. Putting a closed pistol back in it's box is allowed. Now consider being distracted and forgetting to clear the chamber before boxing the pistol.
I'm not trying to be a Rules Nazi but they are set up for the safety of all.

spacecoast · August 29, 2011, 03:13 PM

Thanks for the reply. I understand the safety concern, but would also point out that if the proper sequence is followed, i.e. "CEASE FIRING- UNLOAD- CYLINDERS OPEN- MAGAZINES OUT- SLIDES BACK- GUNS ON THE TABLE..." at the end of the match as well as during the match, no live round will be left in the gun, even if after that sequence is followed the guns are allowed to be put in the box before going downrange to score.

darkgael · August 30, 2011, 07:56 AM

As noted already, "Load five rounds" is pretty clear. Note the difference between that and the command for the slow fire stage, "you may load" or simply "Load". One, two, ten...your choice. Not in sustained fire.
Pete

kraigwy · August 30, 2011, 08:45 AM

Another thing about commands.

After the target turns back on completion of 10 or 20 seconds, you get the command of.

"Cease Fire......Any Alibis or Saved Rounds?"

Then people start looking around. Some one sees you eject a live round there may be questions.

spacecoast · August 30, 2011, 09:30 AM

According to the rulebook at bullseyepistol.com the command is

"CEASE FIRING- UNLOAD- CYLINDERS OPEN- MAGAZINES OUT- SLIDES BACK- GUNS ON THE TABLE. ARE THERE ANY REFIRES?"

I've never heard the term "saved rounds" used, but would be interested in what that refers to.

Also, the match I shoot previously used the term "alibis" in calling the match but has recently changed to "refires", which would seem to better conform to the rulebook.

kraigwy · August 30, 2011, 10:11 AM

Quote:

I've never heard the term "saved rounds" used, but would be interested in what that refers to.

It's a carry over from rapid fire rifle shooting (high power) used in a lot of bullseye matches. It tells the scorer that a given target should be short a round or two (depending on how many saved). Saves a dispute about possible doubles.

4EVERM-14 · August 30, 2011, 02:32 PM

Quote:

at the end of the match as well as during the match, no live round will be left in the gun, even if after that sequence is followed the guns are allowed to be put in the box before going downrange to score.

This is why I posted about being distracted. A seasoned shooter recently finished a string. Or so they thought. Made a short comment to a neighbor and placed their gun in the pistol box. In doing so the .45 pistol discharged through the box and down range. Apparently the mind jumped ahead, thinking the clearing process had been completed, and put the gun away.I only got the highlights of this incident so surely there is more to the story. But it shows even experienced people get complacent.

August 28, 2011, 07:00 PM	#1
spacecoast Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: Sunshine and Keystone States Posts: 4,461	Question about Bullseye rules I've been shooting Bullseye matches for a while and would like to know if it's permissible to load an extra round in either the magazine or cylinder in case you have a misfire/misfeed and have time to clear and squeeze off the extra round in either Timed or Rapid Fire. I realize that the official command is always "With 5 rounds... load" but I'm not sure that precludes loading an extra round. It seems that this would enable the match to proceed more smoothly and quickly with fewer refires. As long as you fired only 5 of the 6 rounds you originally loaded, would this be a rules violation?

August 28, 2011, 07:43 PM	#2
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	Correct, the command is "With five rounds load" meaning 5 not 6 rounds. Firing an extra shot will get your highest shot counted as a miss. So lets assume you fire 5 rounds, the targets turn and you let a 6th round go but missed the target. What happens is you loose the high shot on the target. Lets say you score 5 tens, and 5 nines ( you fire two mags of 5 rounds). You loose one of the tens so you score is 4 tens, 5 nines and one miss or 85 points. Of course if you fire both strings firing an extra shots, you get two misses or 20 points. There is no need. If there is a legit malfunction, you get an alibi string. There is no excuse for trying to skirt around the rules, (AKS "cheat"). I think more effort would be to practice more shooting right. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

August 29, 2011, 05:30 AM	#3
spacecoast Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: Sunshine and Keystone States Posts: 4,461	Kraig, I'm not sure the situation you described is the same. I'm not asking about actually firing a sixth shot, but about ejecting or skipping a live round if for some reason it doesn't fire. Only five shots would actually be fired, but you would have an extra round available if you had a misfeed or light primer strike. Legal? Last edited by spacecoast; August 29, 2011 at 01:39 PM.

August 30, 2011, 07:56 AM	#6
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	Rules As noted already, "Load five rounds" is pretty clear. Note the difference between that and the command for the slow fire stage, "you may load" or simply "Load". One, two, ten...your choice. Not in sustained fire. Pete __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member Last edited by darkgael; August 30, 2011 at 03:07 PM.

August 30, 2011, 08:45 AM	#7
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	Another thing about commands. After the target turns back on completion of 10 or 20 seconds, you get the command of. "Cease Fire......Any Alibis or Saved Rounds?" Then people start looking around. Some one sees you eject a live round there may be questions. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

August 29, 2011, 03:13 PM	#5
spacecoast Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: Sunshine and Keystone States Posts: 4,461	Thanks for the reply. I understand the safety concern, but would also point out that if the proper sequence is followed, i.e. "CEASE FIRING- UNLOAD- CYLINDERS OPEN- MAGAZINES OUT- SLIDES BACK- GUNS ON THE TABLE..." at the end of the match as well as during the match, no live round will be left in the gun, even if after that sequence is followed the guns are allowed to be put in the box before going downrange to score.

August 30, 2011, 09:30 AM	#8
spacecoast Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: Sunshine and Keystone States Posts: 4,461	According to the rulebook at bullseyepistol.com the command is "CEASE FIRING- UNLOAD- CYLINDERS OPEN- MAGAZINES OUT- SLIDES BACK- GUNS ON THE TABLE. ARE THERE ANY REFIRES?" I've never heard the term "saved rounds" used, but would be interested in what that refers to. Also, the match I shoot previously used the term "alibis" in calling the match but has recently changed to "refires", which would seem to better conform to the rulebook.