38 Special load development

.284 · June 26, 2017, 08:47 AM

I would like to thank our forum "Uncle" who might be named Nick for the solid advise in developing this load. I wanted to maximize my velocity and run solid chrono numbers. Probably the best suggestion he offered was to take every variable out of the equation that I could. So, I started with once fired Winchester brass trimmed to 1.150". The primer pockets were checked for uniformity. I used 125 gr Speer GDHP, CCI no. 550 primers, and 6.3 grs. of Hodgdon CFE. He also suggested a hard roll crimp. I would say I ended up with a medium hard crimp. I made this load for my S&W model 36 Chief's Special. The problematic part of this experiment was that little 1.875" barrel and if I could achieve the accuracy I wanted from this little tarantula killer. Mission accomplished! The average velocity came in at 817 fps the ES was 58 fps and the SD came in at 12. I set up at 30 feet and had one flier (which was my lowest velocity of 777 fps) in 10 shots. Other than that one round I shot a group just larger than a baseball. Thanks again Nick. If anyone has anything to add or any changes I might want to try please chime in.

**Unclenick** · June 26, 2017, 11:36 AM

Glad to have been of help and that the load seems to be working for you. The low velocity bullet probably got loose from the case before the powder was burning at full-tilt boogie.

Nick_C_S · June 26, 2017, 03:23 PM

Quote:

full-tilt boogie.

That one gave me a Janis Joplin flashback

Loading for a 38 Snubbie can be challenging. What helped with your endeavor (aside from our Uncle, who could be named Nick

) was the fact that you were really only looking for two things: max velocity and "solid chrono numbers" (consistency?).

In a lot of applications, short barrels present a need for compromise in ways that reduce both ballistic and terminal performance. Specifically, to keep muzzle flash, report (noise), and recoil under control (all characteristics that should be factored in for proper defense ammo; but by how much, is a personal choice). Fast propellants become necessary. But fast propellants lack the potential to deliver max velocities. And therein lies the rub.

I have never built ammo specifically tailored for my M60 38-Snubbie. But I have built ammo well suited for it by happenstance.

I have built ammo tailored by my 3" 686 357 Mag. And I rather enjoyed the challenge. I made some 158 XTP's that move along at 1097 f/s, using the relatively fast AA#5 (about the same burn rate as your CFE). It's a very nice handling round with minimal flash, report, and recoil. I was pleased with the result of the project.

It would be neat to see how your new-developed ammo performs in - say - a 4" bbl revolver. Pretty nice, I bet.

.284 · June 26, 2017, 07:47 PM

I appreciate the feedback. I knew I wanted a faster burn rate and AA#5 was what I had in mind. I figured I would try the CFE and see if it helped with the copper fouling. I doubt that I would even had an issue at the velocities I was going to achieve . I might try to firm the crimp just a bit. There were zero signs of pressure, the cases slid out easily without even using the plunger and no flattening of the primers as well. I must say it is new to me as I'm used to rifle and magnum handgun rounds with full cases of powder. Ironically, other than the amount of powder I loaded the 38's much the same way I would load a 44mag hot hunting round.

noylj · June 27, 2017, 11:28 AM

I just have one question:
Was that the START load and, if not, did you work up from the start load?

.284 · June 27, 2017, 12:33 PM

It wasn't a start load but, the load data shows 16000 psi and the Sammi max comes in at 17000 psi.

noylj · June 27, 2017, 07:35 PM

But, that 16ksi was NOT in your gun with your lot of powder or probably the lot of bullets you were using or even the cases and primers. These things can make a difference, as checking a couple of manuals will show.
I always started loading at the start load, but twice, (once 9x19 and once .44 Rem Mag) the START load in a manual was max or over max with my mix of components from recoil and primer signs. Later I found that two other manuals had much lower start loads and, if my mix of components matched theirs, I WAS at max or over max.

.284 · June 27, 2017, 09:35 PM

Noylj, I appreciate your concern and I usually do start at somewhere close to a staring load and work up. I wasn't so worrier about this round just because of what it is. The 38 is not a beast like the 357. I actually intended to work up to +P's so I thought my starting load was just fine. I don't think I will mess with the powder weight though I probably could. I will just tweak this and be good.

June 26, 2017, 08:47 AM	#1
.284 Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2009 Location: davison, michigan Posts: 665	38 Special load development I would like to thank our forum "Uncle" who might be named Nick for the solid advise in developing this load. I wanted to maximize my velocity and run solid chrono numbers. Probably the best suggestion he offered was to take every variable out of the equation that I could. So, I started with once fired Winchester brass trimmed to 1.150". The primer pockets were checked for uniformity. I used 125 gr Speer GDHP, CCI no. 550 primers, and 6.3 grs. of Hodgdon CFE. He also suggested a hard roll crimp. I would say I ended up with a medium hard crimp. I made this load for my S&W model 36 Chief's Special. The problematic part of this experiment was that little 1.875" barrel and if I could achieve the accuracy I wanted from this little tarantula killer. Mission accomplished! The average velocity came in at 817 fps the ES was 58 fps and the SD came in at 12. I set up at 30 feet and had one flier (which was my lowest velocity of 777 fps) in 10 shots. Other than that one round I shot a group just larger than a baseball. Thanks again Nick. If anyone has anything to add or any changes I might want to try please chime in. __________________ Guns have only two enemies, rust and politicians! Deer are amazing creatures....so please don't burn the sauteed onions and I'll pass on the steak sauce, thank you.

June 26, 2017, 11:36 AM	#2
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Glad to have been of help and that the load seems to be working for you. The low velocity bullet probably got loose from the case before the powder was burning at full-tilt boogie. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

June 26, 2017, 07:47 PM	#4
.284 Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2009 Location: davison, michigan Posts: 665	I appreciate the feedback. I knew I wanted a faster burn rate and AA#5 was what I had in mind. I figured I would try the CFE and see if it helped with the copper fouling. I doubt that I would even had an issue at the velocities I was going to achieve . I might try to firm the crimp just a bit. There were zero signs of pressure, the cases slid out easily without even using the plunger and no flattening of the primers as well. I must say it is new to me as I'm used to rifle and magnum handgun rounds with full cases of powder. Ironically, other than the amount of powder I loaded the 38's much the same way I would load a 44mag hot hunting round. __________________ Guns have only two enemies, rust and politicians! Deer are amazing creatures....so please don't burn the sauteed onions and I'll pass on the steak sauce, thank you.

June 27, 2017, 12:33 PM	#6
.284 Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2009 Location: davison, michigan Posts: 665	It wasn't a start load but, the load data shows 16000 psi and the Sammi max comes in at 17000 psi. __________________ Guns have only two enemies, rust and politicians! Deer are amazing creatures....so please don't burn the sauteed onions and I'll pass on the steak sauce, thank you.

June 27, 2017, 09:35 PM	#8
.284 Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2009 Location: davison, michigan Posts: 665	Noylj, I appreciate your concern and I usually do start at somewhere close to a staring load and work up. I wasn't so worrier about this round just because of what it is. The 38 is not a beast like the 357. I actually intended to work up to +P's so I thought my starting load was just fine. I don't think I will mess with the powder weight though I probably could. I will just tweak this and be good. __________________ Guns have only two enemies, rust and politicians! Deer are amazing creatures....so please don't burn the sauteed onions and I'll pass on the steak sauce, thank you.

June 27, 2017, 11:28 AM	#5
noylj Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2007 Location: Between CA and NM Posts: 858	I just have one question: Was that the START load and, if not, did you work up from the start load?

June 27, 2017, 07:35 PM	#7
noylj Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2007 Location: Between CA and NM Posts: 858	But, that 16ksi was NOT in your gun with your lot of powder or probably the lot of bullets you were using or even the cases and primers. These things can make a difference, as checking a couple of manuals will show. I always started loading at the start load, but twice, (once 9x19 and once .44 Rem Mag) the START load in a manual was max or over max with my mix of components from recoil and primer signs. Later I found that two other manuals had much lower start loads and, if my mix of components matched theirs, I WAS at max or over max.