General Bullet Alloying Questions

studman5578 · July 12, 2011, 07:41 PM

I'm looking at the specs for hardball (2-6-92) on MidwayUSA (as a refference) and they quote percentages of metals on it. Is this percent by weight or by volume? I would guess by weight, but would like to be certain.

Second, I'm trying to find a local source for tin (ive allready given up on finding antimony locally) and I see that people use tin solder. I was at a home depot and a lowes today and didn't see anything about tin content on their soldering packages. Do I need to go to a more specialized store or do they call tin something different when it's used as a solder? Thanks.

res45 · July 13, 2011, 12:20 AM

The (2-6-92) simply means that that particular alloy Hardball has 2% Tin 6% Antimony and 92% lead content. Say if you wanted to make a 20 lb. batch of Hardball alloy your would use 4 ounces Tin,1 lb.2 ounces Antimony and 18 lbs. 4 ounces pure Lead if you want to be exact.

For Tin I use 65/35 bar solder which is 65% Tin 35% Lead I got mine form a retied plumber and it came in 1 lb. bars. That equals out to 10.4 ounces of Tin and 5.6 ounces of Lead per bar.

You can probably find bar solder at your local plumbing supply house,HVAC or you can buy a plain Tin bar form http://www.rotometals.com/Tin-Ingot-s/27.htm the stuff is kinda pricey though.

mikld · July 13, 2011, 11:04 AM

Also check "Lead Free" solder. Contents will be listed on package, but mostly tin. http://josephjenkins.com/store/solder-bars/ I bought some bar solder here because locally it was way more costly. There are some vendor/sponsors at http://castboolits.gunloads.com/index.php that have tin, antimony, and lead.

studman5578 · July 14, 2011, 07:49 AM

So the percentages are by weight then?

I was looking at the lead-free solders an i couldn't find where it listed the materials in the solder. Maybe I wasn't looking hard enough. I'll try to get back out there next week and have another look.

PawPaw · July 14, 2011, 08:01 AM

I notice that you're looking at .45 ball and I'm curious why you think they need to be hard? If you're shooting them through a .45 ACP, they're going slow enough that pure lead would suffice, with just enough tin to get good mold fill-out.

Folks shoot a lot of Hornady and Speer swaged ball and I doubt you'll find any softer lead than that. I cast bullets for .45 ACP from whatever scrap is laying around and save my hard alloy for calibers with more speed.

But, yeah, to answer your questions, the percentages are by weight.

Roger Ronas · July 14, 2011, 09:13 AM

There are 16 oz in a lb.
20 lb batch x 16 oz = 320 oz.
So for Tin 320 x .02 = 6.4 oz
for Antimony 320 x .06 = 19.4 oz = 1 lb 3.4 oz
for Lead 320 x .92 = 294.4 oz = 18 lb 4 oz.

To be exact. Above posted numbers in another post are close enough to get that mix but I am anal and thought someone may enjoy the math to get it to a gnats a$$.

studman5578 · July 14, 2011, 09:43 AM

Pawpaw,

For the 45 Ball it is for the 45 ACP. I assumed that since the only time I've heard of pure lead being useful is for muzzleloaders, it needs to be hardened for just about anything else. I haven't gotten a BHN test kit yet (expensive for somebody such as myself) but I am very certain that it's pure and the hardness is around 6 or 7. Will this be OK?

To get a little more clear about the usefulness of a hard bullet, a hard bullet is for higher velocities. I also plan on loading 357 mag and using a GC for very hot loads, would I still need to harden the lead for use with a GC? and for 9mm and 38 SPL, without a check, a bullet with hardness of around 13 would be ideal correct? Thanks

hornetguy · July 14, 2011, 10:26 AM

On the lead-free solders, usually tin is the only ingredient... sometimes a touch of silver is added. Tin is listed as "Sn", and silver is listed as "Ag", or sometimes "Sil". So you will usually see something like "Sn 98% Sil 2%" on the label.
Silver will not hurt your bullet alloy at all... the Lone Ranger HIGHLY recommends it.

As a bonus, you'll be prepared for any vampire or werewolf attacks. Zombies? You're on your own

zxcvbob · July 14, 2011, 10:38 AM

95% tin / 5% antimony is a popular solder alloy.

Wheel weights are a good source of hard lead of unknown composition (but watch out for zinc weights)

Shotgun shot is hard antimonial lead with a touch of arsenic and no tin at all. "Magnum" shot has twice the antimony of chilled shot.

July 12, 2011, 07:41 PM	#1
studman5578 Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2009 Location: Varying between 1 and 3 hours from Chicago Posts: 152	General Bullet Alloying Questions I'm looking at the specs for hardball (2-6-92) on MidwayUSA (as a refference) and they quote percentages of metals on it. Is this percent by weight or by volume? I would guess by weight, but would like to be certain. Second, I'm trying to find a local source for tin (ive allready given up on finding antimony locally) and I see that people use tin solder. I was at a home depot and a lowes today and didn't see anything about tin content on their soldering packages. Do I need to go to a more specialized store or do they call tin something different when it's used as a solder? Thanks. __________________ Rev 5:13 "To him who sits on the throne and the Lamb be praise honor and glory and power, for ever and ever"

July 13, 2011, 11:04 AM	#3
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	Also check "Lead Free" solder. Contents will be listed on package, but mostly tin. http://josephjenkins.com/store/solder-bars/ I bought some bar solder here because locally it was way more costly. There are some vendor/sponsors at http://castboolits.gunloads.com/index.php that have tin, antimony, and lead. __________________ My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

July 14, 2011, 07:49 AM	#4
studman5578 Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2009 Location: Varying between 1 and 3 hours from Chicago Posts: 152	So the percentages are by weight then? I was looking at the lead-free solders an i couldn't find where it listed the materials in the solder. Maybe I wasn't looking hard enough. I'll try to get back out there next week and have another look. __________________ Rev 5:13 "To him who sits on the throne and the Lamb be praise honor and glory and power, for ever and ever"

July 14, 2011, 08:01 AM	#5
PawPaw Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2010 Location: Central Louisiana Posts: 3,137	I notice that you're looking at .45 ball and I'm curious why you think they need to be hard? If you're shooting them through a .45 ACP, they're going slow enough that pure lead would suffice, with just enough tin to get good mold fill-out. Folks shoot a lot of Hornady and Speer swaged ball and I doubt you'll find any softer lead than that. I cast bullets for .45 ACP from whatever scrap is laying around and save my hard alloy for calibers with more speed. But, yeah, to answer your questions, the percentages are by weight. __________________ Dennis Dezendorf http://pawpawshouse.blogspot.com

July 14, 2011, 09:43 AM	#7
studman5578 Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2009 Location: Varying between 1 and 3 hours from Chicago Posts: 152	Pawpaw, For the 45 Ball it is for the 45 ACP. I assumed that since the only time I've heard of pure lead being useful is for muzzleloaders, it needs to be hardened for just about anything else. I haven't gotten a BHN test kit yet (expensive for somebody such as myself) but I am very certain that it's pure and the hardness is around 6 or 7. Will this be OK? To get a little more clear about the usefulness of a hard bullet, a hard bullet is for higher velocities. I also plan on loading 357 mag and using a GC for very hot loads, would I still need to harden the lead for use with a GC? and for 9mm and 38 SPL, without a check, a bullet with hardness of around 13 would be ideal correct? Thanks __________________ Rev 5:13 "To him who sits on the throne and the Lamb be praise honor and glory and power, for ever and ever"

July 13, 2011, 12:20 AM	#2
res45 Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2007 Location: NC Posts: 753	The (2-6-92) simply means that that particular alloy Hardball has 2% Tin 6% Antimony and 92% lead content. Say if you wanted to make a 20 lb. batch of Hardball alloy your would use 4 ounces Tin,1 lb.2 ounces Antimony and 18 lbs. 4 ounces pure Lead if you want to be exact. For Tin I use 65/35 bar solder which is 65% Tin 35% Lead I got mine form a retied plumber and it came in 1 lb. bars. That equals out to 10.4 ounces of Tin and 5.6 ounces of Lead per bar. You can probably find bar solder at your local plumbing supply house,HVAC or you can buy a plain Tin bar form http://www.rotometals.com/Tin-Ingot-s/27.htm the stuff is kinda pricey though.

July 14, 2011, 09:13 AM	#6
Roger Ronas Member Join Date: April 29, 2011 Posts: 25	There are 16 oz in a lb. 20 lb batch x 16 oz = 320 oz. So for Tin 320 x .02 = 6.4 oz for Antimony 320 x .06 = 19.4 oz = 1 lb 3.4 oz for Lead 320 x .92 = 294.4 oz = 18 lb 4 oz. To be exact. Above posted numbers in another post are close enough to get that mix but I am anal and thought someone may enjoy the math to get it to a gnats a$$.

July 14, 2011, 10:26 AM	#8
hornetguy Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2011 Location: on the north side of DFW Posts: 970	On the lead-free solders, usually tin is the only ingredient... sometimes a touch of silver is added. Tin is listed as "Sn", and silver is listed as "Ag", or sometimes "Sil". So you will usually see something like "Sn 98% Sil 2%" on the label. Silver will not hurt your bullet alloy at all... the Lone Ranger HIGHLY recommends it. As a bonus, you'll be prepared for any vampire or werewolf attacks. Zombies? You're on your own

July 14, 2011, 10:38 AM	#9
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	95% tin / 5% antimony is a popular solder alloy. Wheel weights are a good source of hard lead of unknown composition (but watch out for zinc weights) Shotgun shot is hard antimonial lead with a touch of arsenic and no tin at all. "Magnum" shot has twice the antimony of chilled shot. __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth