Norinco 1897 Riot

[Tidewater_Kid]

I wanted one of these for a while. I found this one on Gunbroker and the price was right so I got one. They were listed as used and had been test fired. I was pleased with what I got and it only had a couple of small dings in the stock. Otherwise it looked new.

I took it to the range and tried three different loads in it and I must say the 97 model really lives up to it's reputation. Slam firing is fun too!

I may have to tench gun this one.

TK

[ChuteTheMall]

If you don't "trench gun it" you can use it for cowboy action shooting.

You'll get real fast at reloading it and shooting it if you do, and it's fun!

[cpt-t]

TK: My Son and I have two Norinco 97`s that we bought for Cowboy Action Shooting. We have had both shotguns for several years and they have worked very well, no problems at all with either one of them. I really like our Norinco 97`s. But IMHO you would be hard pressed to buy a better shotgun than a 97 Winchester. Nothing fits me quite like a 97 Winchester.
ken

[g.willikers]

What if it ever needs repairs.
Do Winchester 97 parts fit?

[g.willikers]

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/631282988

[Screwball]

Originally Posted by g.willikers

What if it ever needs repairs.

Do Winchester 97 parts fit?

Probably not, but I think Coyote Cap has parts for them and the 1887 clones.

I'm sorry, but Winchester 1897s are getting old. I had one a few years back, and while they are beautiful guns, worn ones are a pain to deal with. This is a problem with the design, and how many parts there are, and especially with so many parts actually interact with one another.

I sold mine because the takedown setup was finicky. I did get an IAC 97, which I like. It is a very good shotgun, and I think it is better than a worn down Winchester 1897.

[g.willikers]

http://coyotecap.com/

See how easy it is to be helpful instead of mystifying.

[44 AMP]

But IMHO you would be hard pressed to buy a better shotgun than a 97 Winchester.

Of course its just MHO, but you can buy a better shotgun than the 97 Winchester, and its called the Model 12 (model of 1912) Winchester.

All the good things the 97 has, and without the exposed hammer and the risk of slicing open your thumb when you pump the action open.

It's a as good or better for everything you would do with a shotgun, except for not meeting the rules of a certain game, which are deliberately crafted to require exposed hammer guns.

[Screwball]

Originally Posted by g.willikers

http://coyotecap.com/



See how easy it is to be helpful instead of mystifying.

Roger that... next time, I just won't reply.

[g.willikers]

Don't do that, Screwball.
I never heard of coyotecap until you said.
Much appreciated, even if I had to go search for it.

Leaving things hanging, without links to what's being discussed, seems to be a common thing on forums - and a pet peeve of mine.
No big deal, though with a few search skills.
The information provided, even without the links, is what's important.
You did that.

[g.willikers]

44 Amp,
Somehow the Model 12 just isn't as cool as the 1897.
There's just something special about external hammers.
Hard to top,
Unless it's a lever action shotgun.

[Screwball]

Got you. I took it a little snippy, but I type from my phone (Tapatalk) on off time... so it isn't easy to get an address quickly. Either way, water under the bridge...

Originally Posted by g.willikers

Hard to top,

Unless it's a lever action shotgun.

The original 1887/1901 design is nice, but is another old design. If you get an original, either it is a blackpowder only (1887) or a 10 Gauge (1901 was only in that). The reproduction 1887 is based off the 1901 (lever design), but it is a new gun. Even if Chinese produced, better than a worn antique.

Mine is a Century PW-87. Is rough, but works 100%.

[Hawg]

44 Amp,
Somehow the Model 12 just isn't as cool as the 1897.
There's just something special about external hammers.
Hard to top,
Unless it's a lever action shotgun.

I have a Norinco 97, a model 12 made in 53 and an original 87. The 87 is a fun gun but it doesn't have the speed that the pumps do. The 97 has a 20 inch barrel and it's fun to play with or kill snakes but when I want to really reach out and touch something it's the model 12 hands down.

[Tidewater_Kid]

g.willikers,
That is the one I purchased from Gunbroker. I was happy.

I have the 1887 and the 1897 and purchased them knowing there are better options, but I just like the old timey shotguns! I also own the Norinco 99 which is their SxS mule ear shotgun. All of them have been 100% so far. I have had the SxS for about 15 years.

[turkeestalker]

So you all know....

Numrich has better than 90% of the parts available for the Norinco copies of the Winchester 1897. You just won't find them under the Norinco header, they're actually listed under the Winchester header.
The parts that aren't available are the smaller parts that are known to fail and have been snatched up by the CAS guys looking to make sure theirs keep running.

Here's a link to the pages:

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufact...inco-41824.htm

I purchased one used last year and did not notice a small crack in the carrier where the slot is cut in the front left edge.
It bears Cimarron's name on it, but it's the Norinco.
It had problems with randomly spitting unfired shells from the magazine while working the action because the crack allowed the carrier to spread and apply slight pressure to the left cartridge stop.

Bought a new carrier from Numrich, perfect fit, just took some time
and a little effort to wear it into smooth functioning.

My sons and I love taking it along for a day of clays just for the fun of it.

Those days my Zhong Zhou 87 copy usually comes along for the fun of it as well.

[turkeestalker]

Oh!
To answer your question Mr. Willikers...

No, the original Winchester parts do not fit, but are amazingly close.

I believe that the Norinco is in fact an actual copy of the Winchester, unlike another Chinese manufactured offering out there.
I don't recall which it is, maybe PAI?
But it is definitely different as the carrier does not have the slot cut in it for the action slide lock.
(that is the slot where mine had a hairline crack)

Where the Norinco offering differs is in the Metric vs. SAE threads on the screws and pin sizes etc.

There are some small dimensional differences in some of the parts, but they're large enough that they typically can not be interchanged.

One other thing to note is that the early model Winchester used screws through the sides of the receiver to hold the cartridge stops in place and the stops were hinged.

The later models used very tiny set type screws through the bottom of the receiver that the then non-hinged stops pivot on.

The Norinco design is like the later Winchester.

[44 AMP]

My only real issue with the 97 is probably what makes it cool for you, the hammer & bolt. I wear size 9 gloves, and unless I'm careful, it's quite possible for me to get my thumb into that narrow space between where the bolt rides and the stock, and brother, its painful!!!

Lacks the sharp smack of M1 thumb but can cut and isn't fun. Other than the old style look I find the model 12 to be a much improved 97, takes down the same way, lacks the modern "wussy" refinement of disconnector (and yes, as a lad I got well practiced "slammin' 6 from the hip" - my 16th birthday present was a model 12 made in the early 20s...)

I like the 97, but not the "bite".

[Scorch]

Ah, yes. The old "thumb-buster" '97. Yes, they point nicely, and swing well, and that "kachunk-kachunk" when cycled is just the music of the spheres. But really? A 120-year old shotgun design? For CAS? Sure, because ya gotta. For anything else? Nope. Too complex to disassemble, too difficult to find parts for, and too hard to keep stocked up on Band-Aids. And really, there are much, much better designs of shotguns. If you want a 120-year old design, get an Auto-5.

[Tidewater_Kid]

44 Amp and Scorch,

This one got me the first day. I figured out how to hold it. I got M1 Garand thumb one time too. Didn't make me want to sell either one. Just be more careful.

I love old designs and I am just drawn to them. I have modern Remington and Mossberg shotguns. They don't speak to me the way the old designs do. I like the Norincos because I don't worry about taking them to the range and having some fun with them.

TK

[CaptainChaos]

I love old designs and I am just drawn to them.

My sentiments, entirely - for example, Chiappa 1887:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym5svemcFLc

Regards,

Mark.