New guy, help please!!

[Rford09]

Hey guys,
I have been looking around here for the last week or two trying to gather some information before making some rounds. Well today i decided to sit down and make 20 rounds, didnt work out to well.
I am using a hornady lock-n-load press
Rcbs dies.
Cci small pistol primers
Once fired 45 brass, sonic cleaned
185 grain berrys plated flat point bullets
5 grains of titegroup powder
OAL of 1.24
I fired 10 rounds, all of them fired but 1, not one hit the target. But addmitingly that may have been me.
My dad fired 10, all of them fired but 4, of those 4, 3 of them had them had the bullet come off and stay in the barrel.

My guess is that we dont have the bullet seated deep enough, but i am not sure. How do i determine what my OAL should be? How do i determine if my crimp is tight enough?
Bye the way i am shooting a S&W 1911, and my dad is shooting a Sig 1911. There are no issues with either gun they work flawlessly with factory ammo.

Thanks in advance for any help that you could give me, and sorry for being long-winded.

Rob

[carprivershooter]

recheck your load data, and check to make sure the powder is dropping into the case. Double check your dropped powder with a good beam scale. Setting depth could be a problem but to me it sounds more like the charge could be lite. REread the whole loading procedures and follow them. Having 3 squibs is a lot for ten rounds. Reloading it fun and safe WHEN you follow the steps, stay focused, and make sure every thing is working as required. How close to your target were you? Did any one see the bullets impact the back stop the ground, was there a normal report after each round fired? was there a difference in the felt recoil when shooting your reloads? Knowing the answer to these question can help. For now recheck your powder handling.

[grisbald]

The #1 thing that sticks out to me is .45's take a Large Pistol Primer, not a small pistol. Do you have a reloading book? Your OAL is good, I just finished loading 100 .45's with 200 gr. hornady bullets, and the book says 1.230" for C.O.L.

edit:

I was nervous also Rford the first time I fired my handloads. Started last summer. Now, I get excited heading to the range with my latest loads. Only thing that makes me nervous now is hoping I get home from work before the wife so I can stash the Midway box with reloading stuff in the garage so I don't get the "What the H*ll did you buy now!?

[Rford09]

We checked the powder weight on about 6 cases before putting the bullet on, using a rcbs scale and they were all withing a tenth of a grain.
I was shooting at a 50 yard target, and the rounds hit the target just not on the sheet of paper, but as i said this was probably me. I have to admit i was a little nervous shooting homemade rounds.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

OK, first off, when developing loads, shot a target closer than 50 yards.

Secondly, your crimp should be just enough to REMOVE the flare you put on the case mouth (to get the base of the bullet to sit in there before seating.) The crimp on 45 auto, or any other semiauto pistol cartridge, is used to just remove the flare. Nothing more, nothing less. Over crimps will actually lead to the bullet become looser in the case. Under crimps can lead to feeding/chambering issues.

45 auto DOES take large pistol primers in most cases, but there are small pistol primed 45 cases out there. Make sure you are using the correct primer.

[Rford09]

From what i understand some manufactures have started using small primers on the 45's, and it seems that we ended up with quite a few of them, so thats what we are using.

[Rford09]

Thanks for the replies i will step up a little closer on the target next time.

We checked the round with calipers and there was a +/- of .003 from end to end. Is this the correct way to check the crimp? How do i determine what the OAL should be?

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Rford09 said: 3 of them had them had the bullet come off and stay in the barrel.

1. check and make sure your resizing die is touching your shell holder on the up stroke with the correct amount of decapping pin showing below the die. (3/16s is good)
2. Just a very small amount of belling or flare is required on the brass case mouth. Just enough to barely accept a bullets base is all that is required. (To much of a flare may crack your brass. To little flare will inhibit a bullets correct seating process.)
3. Seating die should push bullet to desired depth and then simultaneously push your brass's flared area tightly up against the side of the newly (fully) seated bullet. (Remember Tightly not excessively)

Trim shell prior to reloading: 0.888
Cartridge O.A.L. 1.190-this is considered the minimum length required on the 45acp according to Accurate Powder Co. (With bullet fully seated. Measured from very tip of a bullet clear to the bottom side of the shell itself) i.e. top to bottom. That's your C.O.L Just my humble advice on how it's done. Good Luck, SSMcG

Post Script:

will this vary depending. On the bullet that is being used.

To answer your question: is Yes. Each bullet has it's own profile. i. e. Some are flat pointed, some are pointed, some are rounded.

(Trim Length) as it is called: is 0.888 and pertains to the total measurement of an empty brass shell case. Top to bottom
(Cartridge Overall Length) measurement: is the total length of the cartridge with a bullet seated to the desired height >top to bottom:1.190

If your shells cases are all trimmed to the same measurement before hand. And your seating die is set to seat your bullet to a desired height and your die is also screw down into your press for the correct shell crimp wanting. Than all your cartridges should be almost identical upon completion. To get your seating die correctly set. Doing so is nothing more than tweaking and a bit of experimentation too. But eventually you'll get there.-
Hope this helps.

[Rford09]

Thanks

I guess i ddnt realize the difference beetween the OAL and the COAL.
So how do i determine what my COAL should be, will this vary depending. On the bullet that is being used.

[RobertInIowa]

Your reloading manual should list the COAL for each load. This is important for safety as well as functionallity as the depth in which the bullet is seated can have a profound impact on the pressures generated.

[Mal H]

Originally Posted by Rford09

I guess i ddnt realize the difference beetween the OAL and the COAL.

There is no difference between those two. They are both initialisms for the same thing the overall length of a completed round.

So how do i determine what my COAL should be, will this vary depending on the bullet that is being used?

Absolutely. It can vary within a fairly wide range. If you can't find your exact bullet in a reloading manual, then email the bullet maker (or check their website for info) for his suggestion on an OAL for the caliber you will be shooting.

Your first task though is not find the proper OAL, but to figure out why you got so many "squib" loads in your first batch. As mentioned, you must be sure there is a good powder load in every case you use. Visually inspect each one for powder at the right level in the case until you are sure your process is working well (use of a flashlight doing that helps).

[Rford09]

I guess I didnt explain myself well enough. The rounds didn't even fire, i beleive the bullet fell off the case as it was chambering. When the trigger was pulled nothing happen, then I manually ejected the case there was still powder in the case.

[Mal H]

Ah! That is a different matter. But, I'm surprised the primer didn't fire anyway.

[Rford09]

Yeah I was too. My thought was that since the bullet fell off the round was sloppy in The chamber so the primer was never struck. But I am only guessing.

That's why I figured the problem was the OAL and I didn't have the bullet seated deep enough.

[bossman]

This almost sounds like someone trying to get one over on us. If you're telling the truth here, you need to step away from that press and start reading a little more till understand the reloading process a bit more.

Everything up top looks ok, I don't use Tilegroup so I don't know about that.
It sounds like you're over expanding the case and for sure not setting a good crimp. As stated earlier I can't believe the primer didn't go off. When you finish a round you should be able to push the bullet against some wooden object with your thumb and the bullet shouldn't move, if it does the crimp is to loose. When you expand the bullet it should just be enough for the bullet to stand straight on the case.

[Rford09]

I have better things to do with my time than come onto a forum and make up crap. I addmitingly am learning this process and was looking for some help. Nothin more

[Mal H]

Right.

bossman - let's not start stuff like that. If you feel something's not right, don't make it public until you're sure. And I seriously doubt if you're sure on this one. Your accusation was completely uncalled for.

[bossman]

Well I think you have a problem with the flairing(expansion) and deflairing(crimp), I would work making up dummy rounds, No powder No primer, till I got that process figured out. As for as trimming brass I haven't ever done that for pistol brass. If your bullet is falling out of the case without being fired I think this is the area you should be looking at.

[bossman]

Sorry, didn't try to offend, it's just sounds like a lot of serious issues going bad at once. I did try to offer help.

[Rford09]

I appreciate all the help I can get!!
I just called the distributor that I bought the bullet from and they told me the overall length should be 1.125. So I will be resetting all the dies and starting back over from scratch. I will update once I have done this.

Thanks again

[mrawesome22]

Are you guys following the instructions of a reloading manual?

[Rford09]

No. Should I be? For what information?

[Rford09]

All the dyes have been reset. I think that they all may have been a little out of whack. I know for sure that the sizing dye had crept down to almost 3/8th of an inch. I think the expander dye was good, and the seater dye was to shallow.

I have refered to the hornady loading manual, but it doesnt have anything in there about 185 grain flat nose bullets. Also has a maximum OAL,but wont this vary depending on the bullet that is being used?

[medalguy]

Hey I'm in full agreement with bossman on this one. Are you serious? Don't tell us you do not have a loading manual. I sincerely hope that's sarcasm in your post.

If you indeed do NOT have a loading manual, PLEASE step back from that press and buy not less than two manuals and READ THEM. Attempting to load without a good manual (or two) is extremely dangerous and you may well be putting your eyesight or even your life in jeopardy.

I thini most any good manual will contain all the answers to the questions you are posting here. PLEASE get at least two manuals and read them, then come back and ask questions. We're all for helping people make safe accurate loads, but you need to do some of the ground work yourself.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Re-read the above post. It was put very well. Not only are your guns at risk, but also your PERSONAL SAFETY and the safety of those around you are at risk. Be careful!