Nickel plated cases... - Page 2

bjm42 · July 26, 2016, 05:29 PM

All good to know. I've only been reloading 8 yrs, & find I have much to learn. Following the experience (better & worse) of others has saved me a lot of grief.

Guv · July 29, 2016, 05:00 PM

I used to buy Remington nickel plated cases for my hunting rifles. I used to hunt all year round and (hogs, deer, chupacabra

) liked the way you could handle he cases without creating any corrosion, they also looked cool.

Bob Wright · August 1, 2016, 09:23 PM

As a matter of interest, some of the first cartridges I ever bought in centerfire were old REM-UMC .45 Colt with nickeled cases and balloon heads. How many times I reloaded these I don't know, but the headstamps were worn down so much as to be faint on some cases. And the nickel was wearing so thin the brass was beginning to show through, looking more like gold that nickel.

And I've got nickel .44 Magnum, .44 Special, and more recently, .45 Colt all nickel plated. I carry cartridges often in leather belt slides with six loops for daily carry. Also many, many .38 Special and .357 Magnum cases. None of these have any higher failure rate than plain brass cases.

Regardless of case material, I find that most cases can be loaded about ten times with maximum or near maximum loads before failures start to occur, and over fifty times with moderate loads.

Bob Wright

TimSr · August 4, 2016, 07:25 AM

Freedom Arms is the only gun company I know of that has embraced the use of reloads, and supplied me with printed reloading data.

I'm 54 years old, and I do not recall ever seeing LEOs putting cartridges in leather loops on a cartridge belt. They always carried ammo in speedloaders in pouches, so I'm not really a believer in the nickel/leather explanation. Maybe the pouches were leather too, but I know that I prefer nickel for defensive revolver ammo because it tarnishes badly just from handling it with your fingers.

I'm also one of those who documents how many times my brass has been reloaded, and I'm also one who has noticed no difference in the reloading lifespan, at least with 357 and 38s. I've not come across 9mm nickel, but it would sure be easier to spot on the ground.

My advice, if you have it, use it, and draw your own conclusions.

briandg · August 4, 2016, 07:56 AM

I carried plain brass silvertips for years, and those things got so dark and nasty looking that it literally eroded my confidence in them to the point that I replaced them with nickel.

Is ugly , tarnished brass going to bother you when you clean it, get nickel.

A lot of what you have already read is true.

DPris · August 4, 2016, 10:27 AM

Tim,
I'm a little older than you, and I recall leather cartridge loops very well.

Even by the time I got into LE in '76, they were still in use as speedloaders started to invade the field.

Not talking full "Old West" cartridge belts, just belt slides with 6 or 12 spares that slid onto the duty belt.

At my first PD, besides the dump boxes I started with & the speedloaders I picked up later, I carried a leather cuff case with 6 loops on it, filled with armor-piercing KTW rounds. In nickel cases.

You've never seen movies or photos of cops in the '40s & '50s with at least 6 visible rounds on a duty belt?

That's exactly what nickeled rounds were developed for.
Denis

Bob Wright · August 4, 2016, 11:45 AM

Just as a historical fact, all revolver cartridges considered "police" ammunition was nickeled. Older rounds (collector quality) in .32 S&W Long, .38 S&W, .38 Special, .357 Magnum, .45 Colt, and .45 ACP will be found with nickeled cases. Of the same vintage, target .38 Special cartridges will have plain brass cases.

When the .38 Super cartridge was introduced, it was decided to load it in nickeled cases to distinguish it from the .38 ACP.

Current practice however, is to load "premium" ammunition with nickeled cases just "for show."

Bob Wright

briandg · August 4, 2016, 12:04 PM

D pRis is right, some people did. I once encountered a border pAtrol agent. .357,dual speed loaders, and loops. Nickel. Hollow points.

If it wasn't for the straps, I wouldn't have known.

UncleEd · August 4, 2016, 12:25 PM

Years ago I read of one police department that had patrol officers load
their belt slides with nickel .38s to "match" their silver shields while the gold badge types were ordered to use the brass colored rounds.

The author was Mas Ayoob I believe.

In another article, possibly in G&A, .38 brass from a single lot were taken and reloaded. They were reloaded with moderate loads. A few split with only a few reloads, some gave out after around 10 and some went to 30 reloads before the test was ended.

Gary Wells · August 4, 2016, 03:49 PM

About 25 years ago a friend & I were cruising the Costa Mesa show and we came across a gentleman selling a lot of 7000 brand new nickel plated brass cases in .45 auto. R-P, non primed. I don't remember the price, but it was so good that we ould not afford to pass it up. I took 3500 & he took 3500. Needed a dolly to get them to the vehicle. Over the years I shot & reloaded them in groups of 500-600. With a light target load of about 3.6 grs of Herc Bullseye, WLP primers, & 185 grain H&G mold pattern # 130 LSWC. I am currently shooting up my last batch of 620 cases & am on the 4th reloading of those cases. I always got somewhere between 12 & 30 reloads before the cases split.

briandg · August 4, 2016, 07:56 PM

It makes me wonder if a test could be run with fifteen rounds of unused brass, same maker, jus run through sizing and expansion until failure.

No, I'm not going to do it.

Gary Wells · August 4, 2016, 10:24 PM

I believe that 1 of the major causes of failure is the bell & crimp operations.

DPris · August 5, 2016, 01:17 AM

Not in the longitudinal splitting like I got.

Denis

buckhorn_cortez · August 7, 2016, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Nickel plating causes a phenomenon called "hydrogen imbrittlement."

Hydrogen embrittlement is associated with steels, both carbon steel and stainless steel, aluminum, and titanium. It is not associated with brass.

Therefore, plated brass cases should not crack from hydrogen embrittlement.

Hydrogen embrittlement is treated by a "de-embrittlement" process that usually consists of baking the plated part after plating at 375F for four hours.

briandg · August 7, 2016, 11:08 AM

There are corrosive chemicals used, and they are run through an electrolytic process, whatever the actual process, it is almost certain that the plating process will affect the base as the plating is layered on.

P5 Guy · August 7, 2016, 11:53 AM

After the brass is formed or drawn in this case it will be degreased. A quick rinse in a caustic bath, water to remove the bulk of the caustic. "Britedipped" in chromic acid rinsed again to remove the chromic acid. Bright nickel plating uses an electrolyte that is mostly nitric acid with other chemicals that enhance the finish. Tumbled in a plating barrel for the amount of time decided by engineering to achieve the desired thickness.
I did electro-plating for an electronic manufacturer for five years.

briandg · August 7, 2016, 12:32 PM

So, let me ask, do you believe that all of those processes combined can cause damage to the alloy, or structure? I think so, based on my observation of pickled brass weakness, but I'm not going to commit to it as a fact because I have never scientifically set down research plans for shooting cycles until observing failure.

July 26, 2016, 05:29 PM	#26
bjm42 Member Join Date: April 23, 2011 Location: Placer Co, CA Posts: 47	nickel plated cases... All good to know. I've only been reloading 8 yrs, & find I have much to learn. Following the experience (better & worse) of others has saved me a lot of grief. __________________ The best safety is between your ears. bjm42

July 29, 2016, 05:00 PM	#27
Guv Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2012 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,126	I used to buy Remington nickel plated cases for my hunting rifles. I used to hunt all year round and (hogs, deer, chupacabra ) liked the way you could handle he cases without creating any corrosion, they also looked cool. __________________ Walnut and Gloss Blue, mostly!

August 1, 2016, 09:23 PM	#28
Bob Wright Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2012 Location: Memphis, Tennessee Posts: 2,989	As a matter of interest, some of the first cartridges I ever bought in centerfire were old REM-UMC .45 Colt with nickeled cases and balloon heads. How many times I reloaded these I don't know, but the headstamps were worn down so much as to be faint on some cases. And the nickel was wearing so thin the brass was beginning to show through, looking more like gold that nickel. And I've got nickel .44 Magnum, .44 Special, and more recently, .45 Colt all nickel plated. I carry cartridges often in leather belt slides with six loops for daily carry. Also many, many .38 Special and .357 Magnum cases. None of these have any higher failure rate than plain brass cases. Regardless of case material, I find that most cases can be loaded about ten times with maximum or near maximum loads before failures start to occur, and over fifty times with moderate loads. Bob Wright __________________ Time spent at the reloading bench is an investment in contentment.

August 4, 2016, 07:56 AM	#30
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	I carried plain brass silvertips for years, and those things got so dark and nasty looking that it literally eroded my confidence in them to the point that I replaced them with nickel. Is ugly , tarnished brass going to bother you when you clean it, get nickel. A lot of what you have already read is true. __________________ None.

August 4, 2016, 11:45 AM	#32
Bob Wright Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2012 Location: Memphis, Tennessee Posts: 2,989	Just as a historical fact, all revolver cartridges considered "police" ammunition was nickeled. Older rounds (collector quality) in .32 S&W Long, .38 S&W, .38 Special, .357 Magnum, .45 Colt, and .45 ACP will be found with nickeled cases. Of the same vintage, target .38 Special cartridges will have plain brass cases. When the .38 Super cartridge was introduced, it was decided to load it in nickeled cases to distinguish it from the .38 ACP. Current practice however, is to load "premium" ammunition with nickeled cases just "for show." Bob Wright __________________ Time spent at the reloading bench is an investment in contentment.

August 4, 2016, 07:25 AM	#29
TimSr Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2013 Location: Rittman, Ohio Posts: 2,074	Freedom Arms is the only gun company I know of that has embraced the use of reloads, and supplied me with printed reloading data. I'm 54 years old, and I do not recall ever seeing LEOs putting cartridges in leather loops on a cartridge belt. They always carried ammo in speedloaders in pouches, so I'm not really a believer in the nickel/leather explanation. Maybe the pouches were leather too, but I know that I prefer nickel for defensive revolver ammo because it tarnishes badly just from handling it with your fingers. I'm also one of those who documents how many times my brass has been reloaded, and I'm also one who has noticed no difference in the reloading lifespan, at least with 357 and 38s. I've not come across 9mm nickel, but it would sure be easier to spot on the ground. My advice, if you have it, use it, and draw your own conclusions.

August 4, 2016, 10:27 AM	#31
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	Tim, I'm a little older than you, and I recall leather cartridge loops very well. Even by the time I got into LE in '76, they were still in use as speedloaders started to invade the field. Not talking full "Old West" cartridge belts, just belt slides with 6 or 12 spares that slid onto the duty belt. At my first PD, besides the dump boxes I started with & the speedloaders I picked up later, I carried a leather cuff case with 6 loops on it, filled with armor-piercing KTW rounds. In nickel cases. You've never seen movies or photos of cops in the '40s & '50s with at least 6 visible rounds on a duty belt? That's exactly what nickeled rounds were developed for. Denis

August 4, 2016, 12:04 PM	#33
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	D pRis is right, some people did. I once encountered a border pAtrol agent. .357,dual speed loaders, and loops. Nickel. Hollow points. If it wasn't for the straps, I wouldn't have known. __________________ None.

August 4, 2016, 12:25 PM	#34
UncleEd Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2013 Location: N. Georgia Posts: 1,150	Years ago I read of one police department that had patrol officers load their belt slides with nickel .38s to "match" their silver shields while the gold badge types were ordered to use the brass colored rounds. The author was Mas Ayoob I believe. In another article, possibly in G&A, .38 brass from a single lot were taken and reloaded. They were reloaded with moderate loads. A few split with only a few reloads, some gave out after around 10 and some went to 30 reloads before the test was ended. Last edited by UncleEd; August 4, 2016 at 12:33 PM.

August 4, 2016, 03:49 PM	#35
Gary Wells Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2009 Posts: 180	About 25 years ago a friend & I were cruising the Costa Mesa show and we came across a gentleman selling a lot of 7000 brand new nickel plated brass cases in .45 auto. R-P, non primed. I don't remember the price, but it was so good that we ould not afford to pass it up. I took 3500 & he took 3500. Needed a dolly to get them to the vehicle. Over the years I shot & reloaded them in groups of 500-600. With a light target load of about 3.6 grs of Herc Bullseye, WLP primers, & 185 grain H&G mold pattern # 130 LSWC. I am currently shooting up my last batch of 620 cases & am on the 4th reloading of those cases. I always got somewhere between 12 & 30 reloads before the cases split.

August 4, 2016, 07:56 PM	#36
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	It makes me wonder if a test could be run with fifteen rounds of unused brass, same maker, jus run through sizing and expansion until failure. No, I'm not going to do it. __________________ None.

August 4, 2016, 10:24 PM	#37
Gary Wells Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2009 Posts: 180	I believe that 1 of the major causes of failure is the bell & crimp operations.

August 5, 2016, 01:17 AM	#38
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	Not in the longitudinal splitting like I got. Denis

August 7, 2016, 11:08 AM	#40
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	There are corrosive chemicals used, and they are run through an electrolytic process, whatever the actual process, it is almost certain that the plating process will affect the base as the plating is layered on. __________________ None.

August 7, 2016, 11:53 AM	#41
P5 Guy Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2005 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 1,804	Plating brass After the brass is formed or drawn in this case it will be degreased. A quick rinse in a caustic bath, water to remove the bulk of the caustic. "Britedipped" in chromic acid rinsed again to remove the chromic acid. Bright nickel plating uses an electrolyte that is mostly nitric acid with other chemicals that enhance the finish. Tumbled in a plating barrel for the amount of time decided by engineering to achieve the desired thickness. I did electro-plating for an electronic manufacturer for five years.

August 7, 2016, 12:32 PM	#42
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	So, let me ask, do you believe that all of those processes combined can cause damage to the alloy, or structure? I think so, based on my observation of pickled brass weakness, but I'm not going to commit to it as a fact because I have never scientifically set down research plans for shooting cycles until observing failure. __________________ None.