Out of State College, Residency, and buying a gun

[dakota.potts]

I moved recently from Florida to go to college here in South Carolina. My parents still live in Florida and that's where I consider my residency. My car is registered there and I maintain a Florida Driver License. South Carolina considers me a resident for some things (hunting license) and not for others (tuition) based on how long I've been here.

With all of that said, what is my legal residency and how can I buy a firearm? We'll assume I'm talking about long guns now. Am I considered a South Carolina resident for those purposes? Does it change between FFL and private sales? For instance, with my Florida license, can I show a student ID to a private seller to meet minimum guidelines for purchasing a firearm?

I called a local guns hop here and asked how they would handle it. The guy running it told me he would consider me a Florida resident and would transfer it to me as such, which would be legal for a long gun under both federal and state law. However, I'm a little confused about the part on the 4473 where it asks about current address. When I sold guns at a big box store, I was told that the current address has to be where that personally currently stays and sleeps. I have no alternate documentation with which to prove my current address (no registration, voter ID, property tax etc.) so I'm not sure what to do.

Who can I buy a long gun from, and how, in this case?

[JimmyR]

College ID only denotes your status as a student. It makes no assumptions of whether or not you have established residency.

Originally Posted by dakota.potts

My parents still live in Florida and that's where I consider my residency. My car is registered there and I maintain a Florida Driver License.

You are a Florida resident. Until you apply for a SC driver's license and establish a permanent address (dorms typically don't count, IIRC), you are not a legal resident of the state.

ETA:

Originally Posted by dakota.potts

However, I'm a little confused about the part on the 4473 where it asks about current address. When I sold guns at a big box store, I was told that the current address has to be where that personally currently stays and sleeps. I have no alternate documentation with which to prove my current address (no registration, voter ID, property tax etc.) so I'm not sure what to do.

IANAL, but I think your explanation relates to when someone has multiple homes, or no permanent home. In your case, you have a permanent home (your parents house) and you stay on the college campus (i assume). Therefore, you are an out of state buyer at any gun shop in SC. If you live in a dorm, that's your best option. If you have an off campus appartment, you can always apply for a SC driver's license and register to vote, and just become a SC resident, which might make your life a little easier.

[Frank Ettin]

Under federal law, one's State of residence for the purposes of buying a gun is defined as follows (27 CFR 478.11):

State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located, as stated in 18 U.S.C. 921(b). The following are examples that illustrate this definition:

Example 1.

A maintains a home in State X. A travels to State Y on a hunting, fishing, business, or other type of trip. A does not become a resident of State Y by reason of such trip.

Example 2.

A maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.

Example 3.

A, an alien, travels to the United States on a three-week vacation to State X. A does not have a state of residence in State X because A does not have the intention of making a home in State X while on vacation. This is true regardless of the length of the vacation.

Example 4.

A, an alien, travels to the United States to work for three years in State X. A rents a home in State X, moves his personal possessions into the home, and his family resides with him in the home. A intends to reside in State X during the 3-year period of his employment. A is a resident of State X.

Based on that definition, a person living in a State to attend college is a resident of that State for the purposes of the Gun Control Act of 1968 when is is actually present in that State. That State is the student's home while he is attending school.

A transferee needs to furnish satisfactory identification to the FFL allowing the FFL to be able to establish the transferee's State of residence. In the ATF publication, Federal Firearms Licensee Quick Reference and Best Practices Guide (ATF P 5300.15), describes satisfactory identification as follows (pg 6, emphasis in bold in original, emphasis in italics added):

General Identification Requirements

You MUST verify the identity of each non-licensee buyer by examining the person’s identification document(s) prior to transferring a firearm. A proper “identification document” is:

1. A document containing the name, residence address, 1. date of birth, and photograph of the person;
   
   
2. A document that was made or issued by or under 2. the authority of the U.S. Government, a State or local government, or a foreign government;
   
   
3. A document that is of a type commonly accepted for 3. the purpose of identification of individuals.

Common examples of acceptable identification documents are a valid driver’s license or a valid State identification card issued in lieu of a driver’s license. Social security cards are not acceptable because they do not contain a residence address, date of birth, or photograph. However, a firearms buyer may be identified by any combination of documents which together contain all of the required information (as long as all the documents are Government issued): name, residence address, photograph, and date of birth.

So you will need one of more documents satisfying the following criteria:

• Government issued
  
  
• With your photograph
  
  
• Including your date of birth
  
  
• Showing your residence address in South Carolina

[stephen426]

You are a Florida resident. Keep it that way unless you plan on buying handguns or want to get a carry permit in South Carolina. Just keep in mind that Florida residents have no state income tax and Florida's concealed carry permit has reciprocity with a lot of states. You can buy long guns out of state without an issue. It's only an issue if you buy a handgun.

[NJgunowner]

Hopefully you don't live in a dorm, almost every one has rules against keeping firearms. Same in non dorm on campus housing.

Honestly you'd have an easier time buying in Florida during a break.

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by stephen426

You are a Florida resident....

Cite legal authority supporting that conclusion.

Originally Posted by stephen426

...Just keep in mind that Florida residents have no state income tax...

Irrelevant. The OP will still be liable for South Carolina income tax on any income he earns in South Carolina.

Liability for state income tax has nothing to do with residency. Because of investments I have I must file income tax returns and pay income tax in States I've never even been to.

[dakota.potts]

So it seems I'm a South Carolina resident some of the time and not for others.

If I understand it correctly, I could use my Florida Driver License and an alternate form of documentation proving my current address. That's how we used to do it for people who had old out of state licenses.

Problem is, I don't know what alternate documentation to use. A South Carolina state ID requires me to surrender my out of state driver license. My car is titled to myself and a family member, who is in Florida, so I was planning on saving money by keeping it registered there.

I may just have to suck it up and get a DL here

[dogtown tom]

dakota.potts So it seems I'm a South Carolina resident some of the time and not for others.

As posted above, you are a resident of the state where you make your home.
ATF even has a ruling addressing college students and their state of residence:
https://www.atf.gov/file/55301/download

If I understand it correctly, I could use my Florida Driver License and an alternate form of documentation proving my current address. That's how we used to do it for people who had old out of state licenses.

correct.

Problem is, I don't know what alternate documentation to use. A South Carolina state ID requires me to surrender my out of state driver license. My car is titled to myself and a family member, who is in Florida, so I was planning on saving money by keeping it registered there. I may just have to suck it up and get a DL here

Any government issued document with your name and current residence address (in South Carolina) will work. You do not have to get an SC drivers license. A SC hunting license, a utility bill from a government entity, tax bills, letter from the city/county/state.....all would work.

You should understand, some dealers don't bother reading the instructions on the Form 4473. They never have and never will. They are comfortable doing things one way and one way only. Although your situation is uncommon, it is far from rare. The only difference is the dealer must complete Question 20b Alternate Documentation on the 4473.

[NJgunowner]

In New Jersey they have an ID card issued by the state (at the dmv no less), but it is NOT a drivers license. It's for people who live in the state but don't drive so they can do things like get on airplanes.

Would you be eligible for something like that in SC? Your drivers license would still be in Florida but you'd have a SC ID card to prove residence. Usually you just need a couple of utility bills to prove residence, Social security card, passport is always a good one, and/or birth certificate.

BTW I have NO IDEA if that is considered legal to buy a firearm, so I'd make VERY sure before trying it!

[dakota.potts]

NJ, that is a good though, but I checked it out earlier and South Carolina State ID requires you to turn over all out of state IDs and Driver Licenses.

However, I didn't realize a hunting license had an address on it. I plan to get one very soon (hopefully within the week) so I'll just use that for my current address. I have utility bills, but I think even our water here goes through a private company.

This means that, since I'm a South Carolina resident, I can buy through a private sale here also? In that case, do I have to show to the other person some form of proof of residency as I do an FFL?

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by dakota.potts

I may just have to suck it up and get a DL here

And then what do you do when you want to buy a firearm while you're home in Florida?

What's the big deal about buying a firearm in South Carolina? You're there for college -- you should be worrying about your studies, not about how to game the system to buy a firearm.

[dakota.potts]

What's the big deal about buying a firearm in South Carolina? You're there for college -- you should be worrying about your studies, not about how to game the system to buy a firearm.

I'm trying to do the exact opposite of game the system. I'm a gunsmithing student and a hunting writer. I don't own a shotgun and I want to go dove hunting this year, and then duck and turkey as the season progresses.

I also have a couple firearms projects I want to build while I'm in school for gunsmithing, not to mention the project rifle I will build in class and have to have transferred to me in my final semester.

Just trying to figure out how to do all of the above legally and find out exactly what my rights and responsibilities are. At least one FFL has offered to transfer it to me as a Florida resident using my Florida address on the form. Accepting that against my gut instinct that it wouldn't be correct would be gaming the system - I'm going out of my way here to do everything right.

ETA: Although my residence remains in Florida, and I do plan to return there after school, I won't be coming home often between breaks or anything. I have an apartment here and I'll also be attending summer terms, which means only a couple weeks in between semesters. My SO spent 2 months and a good bit of money transferring professional licenses to have a job here and I have a job here also, so I'm not likely to spend a significant amount of time in Florida until school is done.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by dakota.potts

Just trying to figure out how to do all of the above legally and find out exactly what my rights and responsibilities are. At least one FFL has offered to transfer it to me as a Florida resident using my Florida address on the form. Accepting that against my gut instinct that it wouldn't be correct would be gaming the system - I'm going out of my way here to do everything right.

You're referring to buying the shotgun? My understanding is that Federal law allows for the purchase on long guns in states other than your state of residence, and a shotgun is a long gun. What do you think is improper about buying a shotgun using your actual home address?

Personally, having attended college in one state and graduate school in another state, I can attest that I never had any intention of "establishing a residence" in either place. I was there to attend school -- period. For undergraduate college I lived in dormitories for all four years. For graduate school I rented my own apartment, so I had an address. But it was never my intention to establish residency there.

I think you're overthinking this. Worst case, buy the guns when you're home in Florida on break, and then take them back to SC with you when you return to school.

[stephen426]

Originally Posted by Frank Ettin

Cite legal authority supporting that conclusion

Originally Posted by dakota.potts

I moved recently from Florida to go to college here in South Carolina. My parents still live in Florida and that's where I consider my residency. My car is registered there and I maintain a Florida Driver License. South Carolina considers me a resident for some things (hunting license) and not for others (tuition) based on how long I've been here.

http://www.scdmvonline.com/DMVNew/de...spx?n=movingsc

"Students temporarily in South Carolina are not required to obtain a South Carolina Driver's license."

Some other information regarding residency can be found at:
Http://registrar.sc.edu/html/residency/

Does that work for you sir?

As for no state income tax in Florida, it is not irrelevant if he has any income coming other sources not made in South Carolina. South Carolina has 5 tax brackets with the highest at 7%. That is 12th highest among all the states that levy individual income tax. I'm not sure which bracket Mr. Potts falls in, but there is a tax ramification associated to changing residency.

[dakota.potts]

You're referring to buying the shotgun? My understanding is that Federal law allows for the purchase on long guns in states other than your state of residence, and a shotgun is a long gun. What do you think is improper about buying a shotgun using your actual home address?

I live here now and I am considered by the ATF to have residence here while I maintain a home, so I need to provide information that supports my current address.

Personally, having attended college in one state and graduate school in another state, I can attest that I never had any intention of "establishing a residence" in either place. I was there to attend school -- period. For undergraduate college I lived in dormitories for all four years. For graduate school I rented my own apartment, so I had an address. But it was never my intention to establish residency there.

According to the information I've received in this thread, ATF considers me to have residency in South Carolina while I'm living here, even if other standards do or don't say that I have residency here.

I think you're overthinking this. Worst case, buy the guns when you're home in Florida on break, and then take them back to SC with you when you return to school.

As I've established, I really have no plans to go back to Florida on break. I may go for a couple days here and there, but that doesn't help me now. It also won't help when I have to receive my rifle from gunsmithing school, which would have to be sent to a Florida FFL for me to drive down to Florida and receive it.

[NJgunowner]

Actually you don't need to send a rifle to your home state ffl, just handguns.

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by stephen426

http://www.scdmvonline.com/DMVNew/de...spx?n=movingsc

"Students temporarily in South Carolina are not required to obtain a South Carolina Driver's license."

Some other information regarding residency can be found at:
Http://registrar.sc.edu/html/residency/

Does that work for you sir?

As for no state income tax in Florida, it is not irrelevant if he has any income coming other sources not made in South Carolina. South Carolina has 5 tax brackets with the highest at 7%. That is 12th highest among all the states that levy individual income tax. I'm not sure which bracket Mr. Potts falls in, but there is a tax ramification associated to changing residency.

Except you made the blanket statement in post 4:

Originally Posted by stephen426

You are a Florida resident....

That statement is not accurate:

1. The point is that whether or not you are a resident of a place will be decided in accordance with applicable law, but even applicable law can vary depending on where you are and what the question is. So, for example, a State might by statute specify how long you must be living in that State: to be required to obtain a driver's license issued by that State; to be required to register your car in that State; to vote in that State; to pay tuition at the residents' rate at a state college; to qualify for a resident (rather than a non-resident) hunting license; etc. And federal law (27 CFR 478.11) defines "State of Residence" for the purposes of the Gun Control Act of 1968.
   
   So here, for example, we know based on the OP's statement that he is not considered under South Carolina to be a resident for the purposes of college tuition. However, he is considered a South Carolina resident for the purposes of being eligible for a resident's hunting license. Furthermore, under federal law he is a resident of South Carolina while living there for the purposes of the Gun Control Act of 1968.
   
   
2. State income tax is red herring to the extent liability for to file a state return is related not to residence but to source of income. So if the OP makes any money in South Carolina, he will have to file a South Carolina tax return whether or not he is a resident for the purposes of South Carolina tax laws.
   
   It appears from a quick review of some guidance on South Carolina income tax, anyone who lived in South Carolina for part of a year would need to file a South Carolina income tax return, but may be entitled to credit for state income taxes paid on income sourced in other States.

[TimSr]

Use your Florida information. Your local gun dealer was not lying to you. The 4473 asks for "residence address" not "current address". Where you stay while at school is your temporary address. Your Florida address is your permanent address.

Things might be a little more dicey if the state you claimed as your residence made a difference on the legality of the purchase, but in this case the transaction is legal from either address.


Many years ago I moved from CA to PA, to do a job for 6 months, with the intent of moving to OH a few months later. I wanted to buy a pistol. I was able to use my CA drivers license as ID, and provided utility bills as proof of PA residence. I don't think the law has changed since then, and is probably still technically legal but dealer CYA standards probably have.

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by dakota.potts

...I really have no plans to go back to Florida on break. I may go for a couple days here and there,...

A fact such as this helps establish the OP as a South Carolina resident. He is, in fact, considering South Carolina to be his home, at least during the school year.

Originally Posted by TimSr

... Where you stay while at school is your temporary address. Your Florida address is your permanent address....

On what legal authority do you base this claim? See the prior discussion.

[dakota.potts]

Picked up my shotgun today, using a residence of South Carolina. Had to get my hunting license first and use bills/my hunter education certification to prove my address. Used my Florida Driver License for the majority of identifying questions and the hunting license was listed as alternate documentation on the 4473, with a photocopy of both made.

No problems and I was out in about 10 minutes. Background check came back with a proceed about the same second he finished phoning in my information. So that's an option for students living out of state while going to school

[stephen426]

Glad it worked out for you!

[Spooler41]

One other thing you may wish to consider , is applying for a SC ID card
instead of a SC drivers license, with your currant address on it. I think
all state ID cards also include a photo.

........................ Jack

[gaz2]

I came across this older thread because I am a college student in a similar scenario, however I'm looking to buy a handgun.

For posterity I wanted to share, the ATF provides a specific stipulation for residency status of college students for the purchase firearms:

Similarly, in ATF Ruling 80-21 (ATFB 1980-4, 25), ATF held that, during the time college students actually reside in a college dormitory or at an offcampus location, they are considered residents of the State where the on-campus or offcampus housing is located.

This is from the ATF webpage, Page 2 Paragraph 3 of this article:
https://www.atf.gov/file/55496/download

[Armed_Chicagoan]

The law says you can, but unless you have a government ID with an address on it good luck finding an FFL who will sell you one.

[Evan Thomas]

gaz2, welcome to TFL. If you had read the other posts in this thread, you might have noticed that the information in your post was given in the link in post #8. Please don't reopen old threads just to repeat something that's been said already.

It's best not to reopen them at all, since people do then tend to jump in without having read beyond the OP. That's why you saw this notice before posting: