The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: General

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old February 12, 2019, 02:41 PM   #151
Red Devil
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2010
Posts: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dufus View Post
How about this:

.270 Win/150 gr Nosler LRAB BC .496
300 - 2356 - 1845 -11.9

30-06/150 gr Nosler Accubond BC .435
300 - 2360 - 1854 -11.3

Recoil Rifle: 7.5 lbs 270Win = 23.31

Recoil Rifle: 7.5 lbs 30-06 = 23.16

Recoil calculator: http://www.shooterscalculator.com/recoil-calculator.php


Comparing apples to apples instead of apples to watermelons, the 30-06 comes out ahead every time.

Cutting all the Bullshi*, both calibers have a tremendous following and for very good reasons. They get the job done and done well.
Not Apples-to-apples, unless recoil (in a very light rifle) is all you are attempting to determine.

The .270/150 gr. is a heavy-for-caliber round, w/ a high SD for bigger game.

The 30-06/180 gr. is also a heavy-for-caliber round, w/ similar SD for bigger game.


If you want to compare light-for-caliber rounds with similar SD - compare the .270/130 gr. and the 30-06/150 gr. - as those are the typical "deer" rounds used.




Red
Red Devil is offline  
Old February 12, 2019, 06:07 PM   #152
RC20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 6,012
Quote:
The 30-06/180 gr. is also a heavy-for-caliber round, w/ similar SD for bigger game
I don't get that the 180 is heavy for caliber, I would expect its a norm (at or minu 5 grins)

It came out as a RN 220, 174 gr was common in it at one time. Rumors to the 150 being more range friendly in WWII.

Extensive stocks of the post WWI developed 174 gr boatail were available, the 163–168 grain AP acualy was more accurate than 150 gr and used in combat in WWII (vs us Range shooting) - I have read reports that was all that was used overseas (165 and 174 as there were massive stockpiles)

While the 06 will shoot anything down to 125 gr amazing accurately (I have done limited testing and get under 3/4 inch x 5 shot groups) and up to 220 gr, 175 - 180 is its sweet spot and the range combo was the best.

The standard 1-10 twist is good to 220 gr.
__________________
Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not
RC20 is offline  
Old February 12, 2019, 06:25 PM   #153
Dufus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,726
I don't think anyone uses sectional densities for comparisons much any more, but I guess it's all you have to support your comparisons and have the biased results turn out the way you want it.

If you were opened minded from the start you would have compared similar weight bullets and similar weight rifles. Otherwise as I said before, your argument has nothing to back it up.

180 gr is not heavy for caliber. I have some 240 gr Woodleighs that are heavy for caliber.
Dufus is offline  
Old February 13, 2019, 01:33 PM   #154
Red Devil
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2010
Posts: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dufus View Post
I don't think anyone uses sectional densities for comparisons much any more...
Huh...?!?

Missed your link.
(like this one)

The Sectional Density of Rifle Bullets

"...SD is important because it has a significant effect on penetration. Other things being equal (like impact velocity, bullet design and expansion, etc.) the higher the SD number, the better the bullet's penetration..."


"...Probably the best way to compare different calibers is by SD, not bullet weight. Comparing calibers by bullet weight can be deceiving. For example, the .270 Winchester and .30-06, which are based on the same case, can both shoot 150 grain bullets. However, the 150 grain .30-06 bullet (SD .226) is best used for Class 2 (deer size) game, while the 150 grain .270 bullet (SD .279) is most appropriate for Class 3 (elk size) game. The 150 grain .270 bullet should actually be compared to the 180 grain .30-06 bullet (SD .271), as both of these bullets are appropriate for Class 3 game in their respective calibers and boast similar SD's. This is important to remember when comparing rifle bullets..."






Red
Red Devil is offline  
Old February 13, 2019, 02:28 PM   #155
old roper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 11, 2007
Posts: 1,794
Red Devil, have read this one by Chuck Hawks

https://www.chuckhawks.com/choose_stateroom.htm
__________________
Semper Fi
Vietnam 1965
VFW Life member
NRA Life Member
old roper is offline  
Old February 13, 2019, 04:43 PM   #156
Drm50
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 10, 2014
Posts: 759
There are cartridges that just seem to have hit the sweet spot for their bore dia. Each caliber seems to have a bullet weight that it was made for. They will shoot others but shine
with one. The 30/06 is one of those cartridges with 150g bullet. Other than 30/30 it's most
popular 30cal. 308 coming in close second. A 270 with 150 gr puts it back to the point that if you were buying for 150gr bullets it would have no practical advantage over 30/06. The
7mm mag & 300 mag have a andvintage but are more powder and recoil. You may need this for certain persuits but in general the 3006 will get it done. When I said it was a bit light for big bears, I didn't mean it wouldn't do. I wouldn't doubt there have been as many bears killed with 3006 as all the magnums. Magnums didn't come into style until late 50s.
The 3006 was probably the most common rifle that was carried in bear country back then.
When somebody said hi powered rifle you though 3006.
Drm50 is offline  
Old February 13, 2019, 07:43 PM   #157
RC20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 6,012
150 would be the normal light end of 06

175 to 180 the middle.

220 usually the high.

Military went to 1-11 twist for the 150 gr, 1-10 works up to 220 grains perfectly fine (ie the original rifling and size projectile)

Military kept going back to 150 but that does not mean its the spot for 06, its right for 7.62 ala 308 at 150.
__________________
Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not
RC20 is offline  
Old February 16, 2019, 07:20 AM   #158
JJ45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 8, 2015
Posts: 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahermit View Post
What can be said about the 30-06 that cannot also be said about the 7MM Rem. Magnum or the .300 Winchester Magnum?
Cheaper cartridge whether factory or reloading.
More readily available almost everywhere ammo is sold.
Requires less barrel length to achieve it's potential.
For PRACTICAL purposes, given reasonable ranges, say out to 250-300 meters, will get the job done just as well.

In rifles of similar dimension and weight, less blast and recoil. Especially compared to the 300!

BTW, all things being equal there is little PRACTICAL difference between .308 and '06 AND this includes perceived recoil...the deal breaker would be the .308 can be had in short actions.
JJ45 is offline  
Old February 16, 2019, 11:46 AM   #159
RC20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 6,012
Probably at 250 to 300 yards to (grin)

Its number 3 on sales of reloading dies sold list last two years of data. Number one lifetime would be a good guess.

The highly respected 270 was in 6th or 7th place.

223 was number 1 and 6.5 CM was 2.
__________________
Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not

Last edited by RC20; February 16, 2019 at 08:04 PM.
RC20 is offline  
Old February 16, 2019, 12:59 PM   #160
old roper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 11, 2007
Posts: 1,794
Here is list I posted

Handloader Special Edition, Top 10 Reloded rifle Cartridge, it''s base on top dies sales from Hornady,Lee,RCBS,Lyman and Redding and it's year behind.

The 6.5 CM was 3rd, 300 Blackout was 8th. 1st 223,2nd 308 4th 30-06 ,5th 243 and 6th 300mag,7th 270,9th 7mag,10th 22-250.
__________________
Semper Fi
Vietnam 1965
VFW Life member
NRA Life Member
old roper is offline  
Old February 16, 2019, 02:50 PM   #161
JJ45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 8, 2015
Posts: 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by old roper View Post
Here is list I posted

Handloader Special Edition, Top 10 Reloded rifle Cartridge, it''s base on top dies sales from Hornady,Lee,RCBS,Lyman and Redding and it's year behind.

The 6.5 CM was 3rd, 300 Blackout was 8th. 1st 223,2nd 308 4th 30-06 ,5th 243 and 6th 300mag,7th 270,9th 7mag,10th 22-250.
A 113 year old cartridge coming in at #4?. What else can we say
JJ45 is offline  
Old February 16, 2019, 08:05 PM   #162
RC20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 6,012
Why Not The 30-06?
__________________
Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not
RC20 is offline  
Old February 17, 2019, 12:41 AM   #163
Red Devil
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2010
Posts: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by old roper View Post
Here is list I posted

Handloader Special Edition, Top 10 Reloded rifle Cartridge, it''s base on top dies sales from Hornady,Lee,RCBS,Lyman and Redding and it's year behind.

The 6.5 CM was 3rd, 300 Blackout was 8th. 1st 223,2nd 308 4th 30-06 ,5th 243 and 6th 300mag,7th 270,9th 7mag,10th 22-250.
The .270 Win doesn't really need special loadings to rule the field.

Factory Remington Core-Lokt/TSX, or Federal Partition/Accubond/Trophy Copper are all field accurate, readily available, and a very good price on sale.

All put meat on the table w/ constant and boring regularity.




Red
Red Devil is offline  
Old February 17, 2019, 05:50 AM   #164
old roper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 11, 2007
Posts: 1,794
Red, besides hunting with Bartlein/Shilen barrel 30-06's I also hunt with Lilja barrel 270 and I have it long throated. There is not lot your going to tell that I either that I already don't know.
__________________
Semper Fi
Vietnam 1965
VFW Life member
NRA Life Member
old roper is offline  
Old February 17, 2019, 02:52 PM   #165
F. Guffey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2008
Posts: 6,985
Quote:
I am not interested in target shooting any more. I have gotten bored with it, so for me it is the 30-06 over the 6.5s if I were to be asked to simply choose one.
Wyosmith, I stopped in Evanston, Wyoming during hunting season. Setting by myself was not an option; I was lucky to fond a chair. It would seem I found a large table full of 7mm57 fans because every one of them made their case. All of them used 30/06 surplus/ formed to 7mm57 ammo. They were regulars that met there ever year.

F. Guffey

My son started working on me for a pistol. While he was going to school in Arkansas Whole there he heard about a pistol shooter that made some increasable shots. I introduced my son to the antelope hunter in an effort to make sense of the amount of effort and guess work necessary to make the shots he makes. Nothing the man said discouraged my son, as soon as he was finished with his lecture my son wanted me to give him one of my big pistols. He can not start practice until he has the pistol.
F. Guffey is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.06875 seconds with 10 queries