Charter Arms Cylinder Gap

EIGHTYDUECE · December 5, 2017, 11:39 PM

Can anyone that owns a Charter Arms give me a typical cylinder gap dimension? I have a new Undercover .38 that has a pretty big gap by S&W standards. I hate to send it in for warranty if it is the normal.

Thanks

**JohnKSa** · December 6, 2017, 12:13 AM

Charter Arms has a pretty good reputation for customer service. I would call them and see what they have to say. What is the size of the gap on your gun?

EIGHTYDUECE · December 6, 2017, 12:33 AM

It is uneven from .015" to .03". I have contacted them and it will be on my dime to get it there ($50). I hate to send it to find that they say it is within spec for their guns and I'm out $50 on top of what I will lose selling it.

**JohnKSa** · December 6, 2017, 01:24 AM

I wouldn't send it to them unless:

1. They tell you the spec, you measure your gun and it doesn't meet their spec.

2. They refuse to tell you their spec leaving you no options other than to live with it or send them the gun for evaluation.

Let's look at option 1. They know what their spec is, they know how they measure it. Therefore they can tell you what it is and how they measure it. If it doesn't meet spec, you can send them the gun with confidence that any shipping costs will be reimbursed under warranty.

Option 2. If they won't tell you the spec and how they measure it, then they are forcing you to live with a potentially defective gun (unacceptable) or are forcing you send them the gun for evaluation. If the only acceptable option they have left you is to ship them the gun then they should cover the shipping costs up front.

Assuming that the measurements are properly made (which isn't a given), 0.015" might be ok, but 0.03" is pretty bad. The fact that it varies by a factor of 2 across the various chambers is even worse. Did you give them those numbers?

Buckeye! · December 6, 2017, 08:11 AM

I agree with the above statement...

But , I have two newer Charter Alumium framed 38spl. and they are tight clyinder gaps.. I'm on my way to work and don't have time to measure.. But I will tonight...I will compare to my S&W and Taurus ..

Carmady · December 6, 2017, 08:46 AM

You weren't using metric feeler gauges, were you?

arquebus357 · December 6, 2017, 10:08 AM

Quote:

It is uneven from .015" to .03". .

My impression is that anything over .010" cylinder gap in ANY revolver would be unacceptable. Many buyers won't tolerate anything over .004". Some buyers will go into a gun shop with feeler gauges and will make the counter clerk keep bringing out examples until he finds one that meets his expectations.

I can't believe Charter would consider .030" within spec. I would send it back.

EIGHTYDUECE · December 6, 2017, 06:39 PM

I was using inch, not metric.

I posted this thread to verify if it was normal to have loose tolerances in areas like this since it isn't a high dollar revolver. It sounds like this one is out of spec and not the norm. I dropped it off at my local gunshop to send to the factory at lunchtime today. It ended up only costing $35. It sounds like CA has a good reputation for CS and warranty work.

Thanks for the help.

Model12Win · December 6, 2017, 09:35 PM

Charter has better CS than anyone in the industry, and makes phenomenal firearms.

James K · December 7, 2017, 02:42 PM

Just a thought - you don't want too small a gap on a defense gun. I have seen folks advocate as small as .003", not realizing that even firing a few shots will result in the gun hanging up from heat. I like about .007", but have no problem with .010 or more for reliability.

Jim

walnut1704 · December 10, 2017, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James K

Just a thought - you don't want too small a gap on a defense gun. I have seen folks advocate as small as .003", not realizing that even firing a few shots will result in the gun hanging up from heat. I like about .007", but have no problem with .010 or more for reliability.

Jim

I think .003" is OK. I had the barrel set-back on my S&W Model 66 to close up the gap and it came home with a .003" gap. I can shoot hundreds of lead bullet reloads in a session with nary a problem. It gets quite hot, to the point I have to let it cool off.

.003" is as tight as I care to go though. Below that I haven't seen heat issues so much as fouling, especially with lead bullets and/or certain powders.

Best thing is just test your gun. I'd prefer them too tight to too loose. If it's binding because of too-tight a gap it's cheaper to face-off the rear of the barrel than to try to correct a too-large gap. Of course on a new gun under warranty that makes no difference.

tangolima · December 11, 2017, 12:25 AM

Cylinder gap should be 0.002" to 0.010" for center fire. For lower pressure rim fire, the maximum can be 0.012". 0.015” is too much, let alone 0.03”.

Depends on the use of the gun, cylinder gap can be too little to ensure reliability.

-TL

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

EIGHTYDUECE · December 26, 2017, 07:03 PM

I got the revolver back from CA today. The paperwork states that they changed the barrel out and the gap looks great. Now the barrel is under torqued and is canted to the right. It is so far that the bottom of the ejector rod contacts the barrel shroud when opening and closing the cylinder. Turn around time for the work was very fast. It only took three weeks.

arquebus357 · December 27, 2017, 07:18 AM

Are you going to live with that or are you going to send it back again ?

EIGHTYDUECE · December 27, 2017, 01:02 PM

I will send it back. I have the worst luck hahah.

JERRYS. · December 27, 2017, 01:17 PM

while they say Charter Arms has some of the best C.S. they should try to focus a little more on Q.C. or Q.A.

Obambulate · December 27, 2017, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Charter has better CS than anyone in the industry, and makes phenomenal firearms.

LOL. I own one of Charter's phenomenal firearms and I have dealt with their industry-best customer service. Never again.

Ibmikey · December 28, 2017, 10:22 PM

Charter had me pay for shipping to them, they replaced the barrel and cylinder as well as some small parts, it took several months and phone calls. Phenomenal service is not what I experienced and upon return the .44 Pistol was traded at my local gun shop on a S&W 60.

unfortunately I had to give up a small .44 and whom ever bought that pistol has bought a crap shoot.

EIGHTYDUECE · December 28, 2017, 10:53 PM

Although it is frustrating, turn around from the factory is fast. Since it is slightly under torqued, it is a very easy fix for them. Although it took three weeks to get it back, it was five days late due to holiday UPS shipping.

David R · December 29, 2017, 12:09 PM

I love Charter. I bought a new Bulldog. Using my dads reloads, I blew it up the first day I had it round #75.

Called charter, talked to the girl. Told her exactly what I did. I sent it in asking them to salvage what they could (not cylinder or frame) and I would pay for the rest. They sent me a new Bulldog serial # and all. NO CHARGE, not even shipping.

Cant beat that.

David

December 5, 2017, 11:39 PM	#1
EIGHTYDUECE Senior Member Join Date: July 19, 2001 Posts: 578	Charter Arms Cylinder Gap Can anyone that owns a Charter Arms give me a typical cylinder gap dimension? I have a new Undercover .38 that has a pretty big gap by S&W standards. I hate to send it in for warranty if it is the normal. Thanks __________________ "KNEES IN THE BREEZE" "Shop Smart, Shop S-Mart"- ASH

December 6, 2017, 12:13 AM	#2
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,992	Charter Arms has a pretty good reputation for customer service. I would call them and see what they have to say. What is the size of the gap on your gun? __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

December 6, 2017, 12:33 AM	#3
EIGHTYDUECE Senior Member Join Date: July 19, 2001 Posts: 578	It is uneven from .015" to .03". I have contacted them and it will be on my dime to get it there ($50). I hate to send it to find that they say it is within spec for their guns and I'm out $50 on top of what I will lose selling it. __________________ "KNEES IN THE BREEZE" "Shop Smart, Shop S-Mart"- ASH

December 6, 2017, 01:24 AM	#4
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,992	I wouldn't send it to them unless: 1. They tell you the spec, you measure your gun and it doesn't meet their spec. 2. They refuse to tell you their spec leaving you no options other than to live with it or send them the gun for evaluation. Let's look at option 1. They know what their spec is, they know how they measure it. Therefore they can tell you what it is and how they measure it. If it doesn't meet spec, you can send them the gun with confidence that any shipping costs will be reimbursed under warranty. Option 2. If they won't tell you the spec and how they measure it, then they are forcing you to live with a potentially defective gun (unacceptable) or are forcing you send them the gun for evaluation. If the only acceptable option they have left you is to ship them the gun then they should cover the shipping costs up front. Assuming that the measurements are properly made (which isn't a given), 0.015" might be ok, but 0.03" is pretty bad. The fact that it varies by a factor of 2 across the various chambers is even worse. Did you give them those numbers? __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

December 6, 2017, 06:39 PM	#8
EIGHTYDUECE Senior Member Join Date: July 19, 2001 Posts: 578	I was using inch, not metric. I posted this thread to verify if it was normal to have loose tolerances in areas like this since it isn't a high dollar revolver. It sounds like this one is out of spec and not the norm. I dropped it off at my local gunshop to send to the factory at lunchtime today. It ended up only costing $35. It sounds like CA has a good reputation for CS and warranty work. Thanks for the help. __________________ "KNEES IN THE BREEZE" "Shop Smart, Shop S-Mart"- ASH

December 6, 2017, 08:11 AM	#5
Buckeye! Senior Member Join Date: September 1, 2008 Posts: 849	I agree with the above statement... But , I have two newer Charter Alumium framed 38spl. and they are tight clyinder gaps.. I'm on my way to work and don't have time to measure.. But I will tonight...I will compare to my S&W and Taurus ..

December 6, 2017, 08:46 AM	#6
Carmady Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2013 Location: on the lam Posts: 1,735	You weren't using metric feeler gauges, were you?

December 6, 2017, 09:35 PM	#9
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	Charter has better CS than anyone in the industry, and makes phenomenal firearms.

December 7, 2017, 02:42 PM	#10
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Just a thought - you don't want too small a gap on a defense gun. I have seen folks advocate as small as .003", not realizing that even firing a few shots will result in the gun hanging up from heat. I like about .007", but have no problem with .010 or more for reliability. Jim

December 11, 2017, 12:25 AM	#12
tangolima Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2013 Posts: 3,827	Cylinder gap should be 0.002" to 0.010" for center fire. For lower pressure rim fire, the maximum can be 0.012". 0.015” is too much, let alone 0.03”. Depends on the use of the gun, cylinder gap can be too little to ensure reliability. -TL Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

December 26, 2017, 07:03 PM	#13
EIGHTYDUECE Senior Member Join Date: July 19, 2001 Posts: 578	I got the revolver back from CA today. The paperwork states that they changed the barrel out and the gap looks great. Now the barrel is under torqued and is canted to the right. It is so far that the bottom of the ejector rod contacts the barrel shroud when opening and closing the cylinder. Turn around time for the work was very fast. It only took three weeks. __________________ "KNEES IN THE BREEZE" "Shop Smart, Shop S-Mart"- ASH

December 27, 2017, 07:18 AM	#14
arquebus357 Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2016 Location: Atlanta, Georgia area Posts: 455	Are you going to live with that or are you going to send it back again ?

December 27, 2017, 01:02 PM	#15
EIGHTYDUECE Senior Member Join Date: July 19, 2001 Posts: 578	I will send it back. I have the worst luck hahah. __________________ "KNEES IN THE BREEZE" "Shop Smart, Shop S-Mart"- ASH

December 27, 2017, 01:17 PM	#16
JERRYS. Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,969	while they say Charter Arms has some of the best C.S. they should try to focus a little more on Q.C. or Q.A.

December 28, 2017, 10:22 PM	#18
Ibmikey Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2013 Location: Now relocated to Texas Posts: 2,943	Charter had me pay for shipping to them, they replaced the barrel and cylinder as well as some small parts, it took several months and phone calls. Phenomenal service is not what I experienced and upon return the .44 Pistol was traded at my local gun shop on a S&W 60. unfortunately I had to give up a small .44 and whom ever bought that pistol has bought a crap shoot.

December 28, 2017, 10:53 PM	#19
EIGHTYDUECE Senior Member Join Date: July 19, 2001 Posts: 578	Although it is frustrating, turn around from the factory is fast. Since it is slightly under torqued, it is a very easy fix for them. Although it took three weeks to get it back, it was five days late due to holiday UPS shipping. __________________ "KNEES IN THE BREEZE" "Shop Smart, Shop S-Mart"- ASH

December 29, 2017, 12:09 PM	#20
David R Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2015 Location: The swamps of WNY Posts: 753	I love Charter. I bought a new Bulldog. Using my dads reloads, I blew it up the first day I had it round #75. Called charter, talked to the girl. Told her exactly what I did. I sent it in asking them to salvage what they could (not cylinder or frame) and I would pay for the rest. They sent me a new Bulldog serial # and all. NO CHARGE, not even shipping. Cant beat that. David