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View Poll Results: Would you sell a PTR-91 to get an M1A?
Yes 23 60.53%
No 15 39.47%
Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 21, 2017, 11:50 PM   #1
Model12Win
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Sell PTR for an M1A?

Should I?

I REALLY desire an M1A rifle, walnut stock standard with iron sights, as my "battle rifle" type gun. Right now I have a PTR-91 and there are some things that bother me about it. The ergonomics are not good and the gun has proven to be finicky with ammo and is a chore to clean do to the blowback mechanism.

Just wondering if I should sell it and use the cash to buy a Springfield Armory M1A standard model. I intend to keep it stock in original M14 battle rifle configuration, just put a GI web sling on it.

Would you guys do this? Keep in mind I can't afford both guns, I'd have to sell the PTR to get the M1A.
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Old May 22, 2017, 12:28 AM   #2
ttarp
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Kind of sounds like you should have gone with the M1A from the start, if thats what you want, get it.
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Old May 22, 2017, 01:03 AM   #3
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Back in the early 80s I wanted a battle rifle. Wanted an M1A. couldn't find one locally (remember pre-internet days?)

I did find, and bought an HK 91 (used excellent condition, $500) Shot it a bit enough to learn the good and less good things about it.

Couple years later, I got the M1A I wanted (again, used, $500), 100% GI "rack grade" except for the receiver. The stock even had the cut out for the FA parts.

My class at USAOC&S Small Arms school was the last class trained on the M14 rifle. I know the gun, and it "fits" me well. I still have it. The HK got traded off in 87....

Everybody has their own preferences, but I would sell an HK for an M1A in a heartbeat. And a PTR isn't an H&K...no offense..
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Old May 22, 2017, 05:37 AM   #4
roashooter
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I had the good fortune to handle and fire a HK...belonged to a friend.....as soon as I could find a new standard SA M1A...it was the one I bought...and I had the good sense to buy three cases of 7.62 (two aussy & one soaf) when it was plentiful and inexpensive.
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Old May 22, 2017, 05:57 AM   #5
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I think I would go with an M1-A too. I had one jam on me(M-14) and was kind of in a hurry. I just slammed it against the side of a tree, catching the operating rod and popping it open. Went right back to firing. I can't see doing that with a PTR.
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Old May 22, 2017, 06:15 AM   #6
smee78
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If your not happy with the PTR-91 then sell it and move on. No reason to keep a gun you dont like and they are still in production so give the M1 a try and see if it works better for your needs. So what are you using this rifle for?
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Old May 22, 2017, 06:32 AM   #7
Screwball
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It is probably a bad time to sell the PTR. Should have done it under Obama, prior to the election.

Don't know how much you have into it, but I personal wouldn't sell a good rifle that you own.

I don't have a PTR, but love my early 1990s N/M M1A.
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Old May 22, 2017, 06:33 AM   #8
eastbank
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i too have a little history with the m-14 in troubled times and it did not let me down and at times the conditions were down right rotten. when i get to thinking about those times i like to take my early 80,s made springfield down and just hold it. it does seem a lot heavier today compared to what i remember it was over 50 years ago to a very young man. eastbank.
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Old May 22, 2017, 12:29 PM   #9
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The M1A is a good rifle, but I find it a bit unwieldy in its standard configuration. I would go for a shorter easier to maneuver package myself. The 16in SOCOM version is not for me though...

I do like the Scout version with 18in barrel. Seems more useful to me overall, for practical uses.

If you just want the full size, that's good too. For range and bench work, it is the one to get.


The 91 and its clones, are a neat design, old school German stamped steel feel... but it's not a rifle I am fond of. If I had everything else I wanted, one may make it into my collection though.


I say... Do what makes you happy. Personally, I don't like the idea of selling a gun, to get a different gun. I would just save and get the other one I want.

But that is just me, and if you don't like the gun, it may not be worth it to keep around to you.
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Old May 22, 2017, 12:55 PM   #10
T. O'Heir
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A PTR-91 is a "battle rifle" type gun. However, if you don't like it, sell it. (HK91/G3's are kind of oddly laid out ergonomically.)
Only problem is you very likely will not get enough to buy a BNIB Standard M1A. Used PTR's are running about a grand on Gunbroker. A Standard M1A starts at $1,408.28 on Gunbroker. MSRP is $1,704.00.
Have a real semi'd Winchester M-14 with the fibreglass stock. Fabulous combination of cartridge with low felt recoil(virtually none) and light weight for lugging around hunting. Except for the ATF exporting their stupid ideas about MG's always being MG's.
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Old May 22, 2017, 02:09 PM   #11
Pond, James Pond
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This:
Quote:
I REALLY desire an M1A rifle
says a lot.

But coupled with this:
Quote:
I have a PTR-91 and there are some things that bother me about it.
says it all.

And I have neither experience of nor bias toward either model... so for that reason I didn't vote.
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Old May 22, 2017, 02:30 PM   #12
Rockrivr1
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I have both a PTR and a Loaded MIA and I can say hands down that if I had to give one up it would be the PTR. Don't get me wrong, I like the PTR but I find the front charging handle is much harder to use over the M1A. Also the ergonomics of the M1A fit me better. Accuracy for me also leans to the MIA. Not sure if this is universal but the PTR dings the crap out of my brass during ejection that makes it harder to reload.

For the M1A, if I had the chance to buy it again new I would have went with the Scout version with the 18' bbl then the traditional M1A I purchased. I would never buy the Socom, which has that monstrosity on the end. Friend has one of those and it just looks uncomfortable to shoot.
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Old May 22, 2017, 04:53 PM   #13
Reloadron
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Sell PTR for an M1A?
Should I?


I really don't know, should you? Me? I have an M1A I have had for over 25 years. I do not have a PTR and actually have never had the desire to own one. I am happy with my M1A and would never consider selling it to buy something else.

Since I haven't a clue what your taste is in guns or your gun like and dislikes I sure as heck can't make a suggestion telling you if you should sell the PTR to get a M1A. You obviously liked and wanted a PTR since you have one.

We tend to buy and hang on to the things we like in life. I like trucks and motorcycles and can't remember the last car I actually had. You need to do or get what trips your trigger and my taste in guns really won't help. What if I tell you to get the M1A as you will love it. So you sell the PTR and happen to get a lemon M1A, you hate the gun and now I must live with the fact it was me who suggested you get an M1A. That would totally depress me. Seriously you need to do what works for you.

If you know anyone with a M1A try it if possible and see how the rifle feels to you. That is the best I can tell you. Buy a truck like a GMC and get a Harley Davidson.

Ron
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Old May 22, 2017, 06:22 PM   #14
JJ45
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My PTR is the Gen II in 7.62X39. The reason I have it instead of the .308 PTR is ammo...I shoot SKSs, my son an SAR 1 Romanian AK, so I have a lot of X39 steel case, which my PTR likes....

Ammo is relatively cheap and readily available. I don't reload x39 so beat up brass is no concern.

But IMO, the weapon feels awkward, heavy, not "ergonomic", charge left handed, safety on left and I can't reach it one handed, cheek weld is weird for me, some hard to reach spots to clean (I use a flexible shotgun chamber cleaning rod and .36 Cal brush to clean the flutes)

On the positive- it is reliable, accurate, simple mechanically despite the bolt gap concern and looks like a battle rifle. Actually kinda fun to shoot (not being used to the roller lock recoil, I actually thought it was doubling on me when I first shot it )

I get the feeling that if I started out shooting an HK91 type, other rifles would probably feel as abnormal a weapon as the PTR does for me now.

If you only had one rifle and spent the time getting used to it it would probably serve just fine and do anything well that this type of battle rifle is supposed to do.
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Old May 22, 2017, 07:39 PM   #15
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I would like to have both but like you that just doesn't make financial sense to my pocket book. I would go with the M1a if it were on my dollar.
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Old May 22, 2017, 08:49 PM   #16
turtlehead
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I never keep a gun I'm not totally happy with. Don't personally buy into the "never sell a gun" thing.

That said, I'd find a used SA so as not to support that company's shenanigans.
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Old May 22, 2017, 10:01 PM   #17
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I HAD an HK 91. I had an FAL. I've had more than casual experience with a couple of different "AR 10" rifles. I still have my M1A. The others all went away. I do have an SVT 40, but its not a .308, so I don't count it the same way. I keep it just because its so ..odd and uncommon.

I've never had a PTR, but I understand they are essentially an HK 91 clone, with the required US made parts. Have heard they are inferior to the genuine HK, but don't know if this is a real thing or just HK fanboy snobbery.

I did not find the shorter length of the HK to be any advantage. Yes, it is about 6" shorter than the standard M1A rifle, but it weighs approximately the same. (listed weight in one of my books puts the HK 3/4lb heavier than the M1A)

Since 0% of my life now involves climbing into and out of APCs and HUMVEEs with a rifle, or clearing buildings of enemy combatants, the shorter length gave me nothing useful.
16" vs. 22" barrel. Might not matter to you, but there is some velocity loss there.

Better in thick brush, being shorter? Somewhat, but no longer being in the military, if I'm brush bustin' its hunting, and I'll be doing it with an 18" carbine weighing 7-8lbs (or LESS) all up, and not a 9.5lb battle rifle, with an even shorter barrel but longer overall length.

Never saw a 5rnd or 10rnd mag for the HK. They must exist, but I never saw any back in the days I owned one. I do have 5 and 10rnd mags for my M1A (the 5rnd sucks, nothing to grab on to, to help get it out of the gun. The 10rnd is MUCH friendlier.)

The safety on the HK is not operable by a right handed shooter with the hand in a shooting grip. Unless you have a rt thumb that is 8 inches long.

AMERICANS consider this a flaw. But, we're only foolish Americans, who don't recognize that its not a flaw, its a feature. IF you look at European military arms over the last century plus, (those that HAVE safeties), you will find many if not most have safeties that are not easily (or in some cases, at all) operable by the right handed shooter using the right hand.

For some reason unknown to me, European gun designers have a history of designing safeties intended to be operated with the left (non-trigger) hand. The fact that most Americans don't like, or want them that way is just our ignorance of their design excellence, in their view. Or so it seems, sometimes... Do note that modern designs, where US civilian sales are a potential market often have safeties that can be worked by the shooting hand, in a firing grip.

I never had an issue with the location of the HK charging handle, only the fact that it only works in one direction. I have the same issue with ARs. Having grown up with the M1 Garand, M1 carbine, M14, and other designs with reciprocating charging handles, I'm fine with them, and their benefit of working in both directions. I'm also smart enough to generally keep important body parts out of their way when firing!

Here's a little known tidbit about the M1A, you can get a "second strike" on the primer of a dud round without opening the action. Its not exactly easy, but it is simple, and you can do it, if, for some reason you needed to.

We train for "tap, rack, bang", cycling the action to clear the bad round and moving on, but, if, for some reason you wanted/needed to, you can recock the M1A without opening the bolt.

Another thing the M1A can do that the HK can't, is that if you want to, you can shut the gas system OFF. Off or on with the turn of a single screw. Again, not something most people would use, but I like having the option of a "straight pull bolt action" at need.

The HK system beats up fired brass pretty bad. Its not the fluted chamber that's the problem, its the fact that it whangs the case off the back edge of the ejection port, leaving a deep, sharp dent in the case body. NOT reloader friendly.

I will freely admit a bias for the M1A. NO other "battle rifle" puts together ALL the features of the M1A, nor, as well, in my opinion. M1As DO have their drawbacks, the biggest one is that its not as easy to mount a scope as it is on some (newer) designs.

For what I want my battle rifle to do the M1A does it best, AND feeds my nostalgia craving at the same time.

One other thing to consider, if you aren't going to try winning matches, what do you REALLY get out of "match grade" other than a higher cost???

Some seem to think an M1A isn't worth their time/money, UNLESS its a "match grade" rifle. From my personal experience, I disagree.
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Old May 24, 2017, 10:22 AM   #18
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For me, no.
I would save and get a M1A, if I wanted one, but my PTR is a registered SBR with my trust name on it. (Modeled after a G3K) It will be staying in my possession for, well, ever. I've done a few mods that have made it better, such as replace the trigger which now breaks clean at 4lbs. Added a heavy buffer and mounted a vortex 1x prism sight, rail on underside of forend with a vertical grip, and a sling. Being a 12" barreled .308, it doesn't have many fans at the range (especially indoor ranges) when I fire off a few rounds.
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Old May 24, 2017, 01:52 PM   #19
Model12Win
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Thanks all. I know virtually everyone adds a high magnification optic to anything .308 these days, but I personally plan to keep it iron sights only and in original military configuration. I love shooting with irons, how the "old hands" used to do.
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Old May 24, 2017, 03:30 PM   #20
Model12Win
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Guys I'm up here at the shop and they've got several sexy walnut M1As. Just held one...

Guys I think the PTR will be for sale shortly. So the M1a is good to go? No problems with a new one?
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Old May 24, 2017, 03:51 PM   #21
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Any new gun will have potential for problems. No first hand experience with springfield quality, but also haven't heard much bad press about them.
Bigger question would be, how is their customer service should you ever have a problem?
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Old May 24, 2017, 04:21 PM   #22
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I can only mimic what I mentioned in post #13. I have one and have had the rifle over 25 years. I would not have had it 25 years if I didn't like it. That said and looking at forums the M1A or any M14 clone seems to be a love it or hate it rifle. Some had had a bad experience with a new in box rifle but I figure that can be said of any rifle. I did put a scope on mine but just to see what the rifle would do off the bench. I shoot it with the iron sights or actually a NM2 hooded rear aperture and NM front.

Of late Springfield Armory has gotten some bad rap involving politics more than the quality of the M1A. Springfield Armory, Rock River Arms Trade Opposition to Illinois FFL Licensing Scheme for Carve-Out. Personally I won't let any of the hype surrounding this make me run out and sell my rifle. Most of this also comes down to what you read and how it is worded.

If you go the M1A route I hope you enjoy the rifle and hope equally as well it performs well for you right out of the box.

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Old May 24, 2017, 04:27 PM   #23
Model12Win
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Thanks friends. Yes it seems say the current production M1As can have some problems. What's new? Seems to be the same across the board for new guns... just wanting to be sure before doing the sale and spending the cheddar on an M1A.
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Old May 24, 2017, 04:58 PM   #24
ttarp
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Be sure to get some extra mags.

https://www.44mag.com/product/m1a_m1...ate_industries
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Old May 24, 2017, 08:59 PM   #25
Screwball
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Model12Win View Post
Guys I think the PTR will be for sale shortly. So the M1a is good to go? No problems with a new one?

Sorry to hear... should have made that decision in September/October timeframe.

Personally, I prefer older guns that were built with some USGI parts. My mid-1990s N/M M1A was a walnut stocked gun, with a stainless barrel. I got it for $1,700 from a local member of M14 Forum... with a whopping 50 rounds (actually just under) through it. It is pretty much an identical rifle to what you can buy now (in terms of condition... gun is still like new). Luckily, there was the identical gun on Davidson's for a direct comparison.

MSRP is $2,414.00 for the rifle. A decent FFL in my area sells it for $2,181.99. After tax and fees... $2,356.95. True, a brand new gun... but lesser quality parts (stuff that breaks on a current SA M1A, likely wouldn't have if it were USGI. Can look at it one of two ways... as stuff breaks, you buy USGI parts to replace them (USGI parts are going through the roof with pricing, as they aren't made anymore). Or you can have a company like Fulton build one, and you get a well built. Depending on round count you'll put through it... do you need something that will run 1,000s upon 1,000s of rounds perfectly (competition)? Or are you going to shoot maybe once or twice a year?

I'd personally join M14 Forum and see what rifles turn up in your price range. Might get lucky and have a member local to you that is a wealth of info, and may have a few rifles that they might want to sell. When I bought mine, I learned quite a few things just from talking with the seller for maybe 20-30 minutes. If you don't find something, then you can always find a new M1A... SA isn't going to stop building them in the foreseeable future.
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