Light .357 loads for a woman

[JTReloader]

Here's the deal...

I'm new to reloading and piecing information from all over together is a recipe for something to go wrong.
My mom has a .357 revolver my dad got for her a long time ago. It has a 2 inch barrel, small grip, and in her hands it won't hit the broad side of a barn. She hates the recoil so much that she's scared to shoot it and why he never got her something else is beyond me.
So I would like to utilize my newfound hobby to make her up a low recoil load that she can use for target practice and for a defensive round. The target load would just be FMJ and a HP for a defensive round. Pleasw don't give me a lesson on how you should shoot what you carry, she honestly won't shoot enough warrant shooting her HP for percision accuracy. I would just like some low recoil FMJ rounds for her to target shoot with to build confidence in herself and the handgun so if she ever has to use it for defense, she has the confidence. To do so. Of course she'll shoot a few HP rounds but in reality if she has to shoot a HP round for defense, it won't matter if it shoots two inches to the left verses her target load at 10 yards because the attacker will likely be 5 yards or under.

So does anyone have a recommendation for a low recoil, .357 mag recover load using FMJ and HP? Also, any tips on reloading for a recover would be great. All information is useful.

[Mozella]

I wonder if you're over thinking this situation. When my wife had a .357 revolver, which she had strictly as a bed-side-table home defense gun, she didn't shoot it very much. However, she wanted to stay proficient so she simply shot .38 factory rounds; cheap, easy to get, and low recoil.

Can't your Mother do the same? It sounds like she won't be shooting much under any circumstances, so setting up to reload rounds for her gun doesn't make any sense. Just buy what you need rather than make them.

A couple of boxes of .38's should last her a long time when it comes to practice and proficiency training. When she uses the weapon for home defense, she can keep it loaded with .357 rounds and with a bit of luck won't ever have to actually fire it.

That's what my wife used to do and it worked fine.

[Scorch]

Light .357 loads for a woman

Sounds like a screaming deal . . .

[SouthGA]

Cowboy action shooters have a very light reload 38 special which would do for practice rounds then as poster suggested a store bought 38 special for protection.

Can't specify the load but there are many powders and light loading that can be found by Google searching for reloading information.

[rebs]

I believe you can buy factory wad cutter target loads for her to practice and some factory 38 HP's for home defense. It sounds like factory 357 magnum loads are just too much for her.

[Don P]

Why not just down load 38 spl for her, and problem solved. Personally I carry 38 spl in my personal protection 357's. Fast followup shots, if needed

[springer99]

Honestly, if you feel that she won't shoot the gun very often and is really recoil adverse, then just buy her a box or two of 38Spl 148gr. wadcutters for her to practice with and regain her confidence. To be honest, then she'll be just as well served by carrying those same wadcutters for self-defense as she'll have confidence in shooting those.

[Chainsaw.]

Yup. Lots of loads for .38 special. You can get REALLY soft shooting/recoiling 38 loads. Easy to reload too, poke around and you'll find lots of people like to load them real soft for plinking. And even a lighter than 357 load can be a decent self defence load. On par with good 9mm loadings.

You could start out just buying a couple boxes of loaded ammo and save the brass or you could just buy 100 cases from starline, then you'll have a good batch of brass that will last a looong time.

As far as advise, read a couple of reloading manuals if you haven't already. Lymans are popular.

Clean the cases as needed.
Full length size (lubed!)
De-prime.
Flare case mouth if necessary, bullet selection will determine this.
Seat new primer.
Charge with powder.
Seat bullet.
Crimp flair down as necessary.

Follow recipes in the books to a T until you become more experienced.

I hope your Ma enjoys shooting it much more once you get some light loads for her.

[Bayou]

If you're looking for mild to moderate 357 loads, go to the Hogdgon website and pick out some starting to medium loads using fast burning powders like 700-X or HP-38, for example.

These loads are not true "magnum" loads as these powders burn too fast, as compared to Win 296 or H-110.

These loads will provide slightly more bump, but not much more, than 38 SPL loads.

[T. O'Heir]

"...a low recoil load..." That'd be a cast .38 148 grain WC load(2.5 to 2.8 of Bullseye) in a .357 case vs an FMJ. Plain factory .38 WC's will do nicely too. Mind you, it may be that mom just does not like that revolver.
The 2 inch barrel, small grip might be, and likely is, the whole issue. How well does it fit her hand?
Changing grips is easy and relatively cheap, but the muzzle blast and noise from a 2" barrel may well be more of an issue for mom than anything else. Using .38's isn't going to fix that either.
Anyway, mom needs to decide what firearm she's going to use. Not you or your pop. And that's if she wants one in the first place.
Do not let her practice with one load and use another for SD either. You must practice with the ammo you intend using for SD/CCW.

[Unclenick]

I've never been able to make 2" and shorter guns shoot very well. 3" I can shoot great, but once I get down to a snubby, the short sight radius seems to trip me up. So that may be a factor for your mom, too.

I've taught enough people to shoot to appreciate that not teaching them to flinch is more important that what the ammunition is. If I were trying to get your mom shooting that gun, I'd start by making sure a bad flinch hasn't already been instilled in her by the magnum loads. I would start without any ammunition with dry firing at a reduced target on the wall until you see she can do it without blinking or disturbing the sights.

Once she has the dry-fire thing working adequately, take some spare brass and drill the flash holes out to 1/8" and make up some primer-fired only (no powder) wax bullets. Let her try those on a target that's room distance away. 8 or 10 feet. If you are unsure how to make these, the CAS quick draw competition folks sell them. Drilling the cases out is so the primers won't make enough pressure in their primer pockets to back out and jam cylinder rotation. Normal ammo backs primers out, too, but then pushes the case back to re-seat them. Without powder, that doesn't happen.

Once she's comfortable with the wax bullets and you don't observe any flinching, move up to wadcutter loads. 3 grains of HP38/231 under a 148 grain wadcutter is an old standard load. It will work fine in .357 cases. You don't need to invest in different cases for any of this. I know of someone accidentally killed by a wadcutter target bullet, so don't think they aren't real ammunition. They are just without worst of recoil. The flat bullet nose is actually quite effective for stopping power. Shoot a rabbit with one and you'll appreciate that this easy-shooting load can do some hurt at close range.

From there you can move to warmer loads if your mom is willing. But here's the thing: hitting a bad guy with a well-placed .22 short is delivering more stopping power than a .460 S&W round that misses. Jeff Cooper admonished us to use the most power we could control. As soon as recoil or other factors cost you the ability to place shots accurately and quickly, you have gone too far. That same load may be fine when you've practiced more, but at that point in time it is reducing your defensive shooting ability. Magnum power and bullet expansion and all that stuff is strictly secondary to being able to get a hit. So don't push mom past that point and think you are making her safer. Even if she does get comfortable with a higher power load later, don't make her shoot it all the time. Having the practice be fun is what keeps it happening. Even if she never enjoys going beyond popping balloons with wax bullets for practice, let her do that. The muscle memory learned that way is still valuable and will still let her place at least the first round of a defensive load well.

[FITASC]

So does anyone have a recommendation for a low recoil, .357 mag

No, no one does; that's why everyone mentions going the 38 special route with powder puff WCs it will still be handful for her and since she seems to fear the gun the best approach may be to get her a different gun - one with more heft that she can still handle

[firewrench044]

Her problem is very comon
Many of my students are female and some elderly
that have trouble with recoil when learning to shoot
for them I developed a very low recoil load in 38 SPL
which will work in your 357
After they are accustomed to the revolver and more at
ease they move to normal ammo

38 SPL Powder Puff ( very low recoil )
102gr Rem. HP ( 380 bullet )
5.2gr Win. 231
CCI #500 primer
COAL 1.140
* Taper crimp*
( case is belled and crimped with a 380 Die )
( tested in 2" S&W, 2" Taurus, 6" S&W 357 )

[JTReloader]

Thanks everyone. To give a little more information (I wanted to make it as short as possible and get to the point) we have loads of spent .357 brass so that's why I would like target loads using .357. The price fore the dies is irrelivant as I will be loading it for myself too. So it's merely cost of components which would be cheaper than buying factory loads. She'll shoot well over several factory boxes. She's just not going to be practicing each month, shooting thousands of rounds. She's tried my .357 with a larger grip and 4 inch barrel but the gun was too heavy for her. She has a bad shoulder so she can't hold the weight well at all and needs a lighter gun, but lighter guns have more recoil. So you can see the issues building. Had it been me getting her a gun like I would like to someday, I would have her pick it out. But she has what she has and we would like to make it work. I would like a harder hitting round for her to have as she carries it hunting, a weak WC isn't much against a bear. My goal is to rebuild her confidence and work her up to a comfortable load. She can shoot a full of grizzly stopper if she has the confidence for that first shot. Adrenaline will kick in and a heavier round won't be an issue. Though I wood like her to practice a little with her carry load so it has to be a little lighter. But she doesn't need to practice with it all the time despite what some people say. I get the point, but when a defensive shot would be 5 yards or under, she'll do just fine as long as her confidence is there. It's a 2 inch barrel, its not meant for long range. I like the wax bullet idea. Right now she has my P22 with a laser but a 22lr won't stop someone on drugs or an aggressive bear. I've never used WC's so that's probably the best thing I took from everyone's replies. I will look into that now! Thanks everyone!

[DaleA]

I sure won't give out a recipe (I'm not expert enough and anyway I don't think giving out loading recipes on the internet would be the smartest thing for me to do) except to tell you to go to your reloading manual(s) and check out some of the starting loads to see how they do.

If you want a little more 'weight' or 'consideration' to bolster YOUR plan, at least you won't have to worry about the .38 special ring forming in your .357 magnum cylinder. (Although this is a very small consideration.)

Good luck.

[Unclenick]

That's why I suggested a load for .357 Mag brass. I don't like having to clean the lead rings, either. The load is a light wadcutter load running at less half than half the pressure the .357 Magnum is designed for, so no workup needs to be done. Hodgdon recommends a maximum of 3.4 grains of HP38/231, but that will be for a hollow base wadcutter in order not to blow the skirt out, so the pressure is what they limit for that reason. A hardcast double-ended or bevel base wadcutter will take more. It can also be seated out by crimping into the lube groove, letting you use a dose of Power Pistol that will make it move well.

Incidentally, if you look at Hodgdon's data, the start and max charges for the wadcutter are smaller in the .357 case than in .38 Special. I thought that was so odd that I contacted Hodgdon about it, but they verified it was so. They offered no explanation for the smaller charge reaching higher pressure in the larger case other than it is what was observed. It may be that the smaller volume of the shorter .38 Special case let's the primer make enough pressure to start moving the bullet before the powder burns much, but I don't really know. It's just one of those oddities.

As to stopping a bear, that's getting into a ballpark the 2" barrel may have trouble providing adequate velocity for. I've seen measured snubnose velocities (1⅞" barrel, but close to 2") vary by 25% of maximum due to adequate powder burn having trouble getting under way in them. Figure to spend some time figuring out how to load for that. Get a chronograph to compare what you actually get to what you expect. By the time you get to a 3" barrel that irregularity is pretty much gone, IME.

Most folks I know carry .44 Mags or at least the .41 mag for bear and with at least 4" of barrel. Unlike people, the bear doesn't seem to know he's supposed to fall dead at the sound of a bang. I have a friend with a short barrel (2½") Ruger hiking gun in .454 Casull, but I don't think your mom would find that as fun to shoot as I did when I tried it.

You didn't say what model your mom's gun is or what its weight is, but perhaps that information would lead to suggestions for alternatives when you are in a position to swing it. Something with even an inch more barrel and some Magna-Porting could maybe help her out.

[Real Gun]

My smaller 357s do well with loads that I derive from the published range between 38 +p Max and 357 Magnum minimum, where both use the same powder and bullet. I am using 357 cases. I always use 125 grain or smaller bullets, because the bigger bullets contribute to perceived recoil and because I believe the smaller bullet gets better velocity and then terminal energy and bullet expansion from a short barrel.

Too often, guns like these are obtained because they are "cute" or are purse size and have compact grips and short trigger reaches, but they make it harder for a new shooter to get comfortable and to feel like she finally managed to put a round on target.

[TimW77]

The simple answer, like others have mentioned is to just use .38 Specials...

If you are afraid of carbon build up in front of .38 cases then use .357 cases for your reloads...

I had similar problems with my ex-wife and my current wife who at 5'8" and 115 lbs is (was) terrified of guns...

What I did with the ex was to start her with the 95g Remington JHP bullets. Once she was used to that I switched her to 110g bullets. Finally moved up to the 125g JHP. At this point I just adjusted the velocity to whatever she liked / could handle and called it good.

Just make sure you use bullets made specifically for the .38.


Years later with current (or is it latest) wife, the 95g Remington had been discontinued for years and impossible to find. As a substitute I ended up using the 88g JHP made for the .380 ACP. May not be as accurate as .357/.358" bullets but shot fine in my guns and at 5-15 yards the difference really does not matter.

As before as she became used to these I upped the bullet weights to 110g (or 115g 9mm) then to 125g and stopped...

T.

[FlyFish]

If you are afraid of carbon build up in front of .38 cases then use .357 cases for your reloads...

This. Use .38 Special "starting" data with .357 cases for nice soft-shooting loads. Been doing that for 45 years with no problems whatsoever. If that's still too much for your mom - and I recognize some people are just more recoil sensitive and always will be - then it's time to consider switching to a different (smaller) caliber.

BTW, I'm not sure what the revolver is that your mom has, but I don't know anyone who honestly enjoys shooting full-house .357 loads out of a snubby (though I know we'll hear from someone who does). I know I don't.

[nhyrum]

From what I've gathered in my short time reloading, you make a soft shooting load by choosing a powder that's on the faster end of powders for that caliber,use heavy bullets, and keep velocity under 900ish.

Also, snubbies are kinda "the guy is on top of you punching you, etc" you put the muzzle to his gut and boom. Much past that and accuracy is awful. One of the guys I shot with as a kid called them a belly gun, for that reason

[highrolls]

JTReloader,

Maybe the perfect reload does exist, but it is a matter of opinion still.

About a year and a half ago Doc Holliday was having a similiar question. Although it does not show up in his opening post. Here is the thread reference.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...n+lswc+bullets

On page two of the reference I answered rather lengthy but the real answer was the last paragraph of that post.

To save you bouncing around, here is a quote of that paragraph.

"All that aside, for Doc Holliday, My wife has the same problem. I solved it with 125 grain Penn LSWC bullets over 5.0 grains of Trail Boss in 357 Mag cases and the 357 LCR. I have taken this up safely to 5.3 grains and these approach 38 special + p velocities however the case starts getting filled to the base of the Penn's past that charge weight and do NOT compress this powder. Even when the powder just begins to touch the base of the bullets, very slight compression, I see case splits from the base of the bullet area going up to the top. She loves them and will shoot all I bring, which is a problem cause I like them too."

We had a message conversation about it, sorta referring to it as the perfect reload for the ladies in 357 magnum. After having the chance to try them out, here was his statement, to which I totally agree.

"My friend made the perfect reload for my wife's LCR 357. Even a child could handle these loads now and they will stop what they have to." - Doc Holliday 1950

edit to add: CCI 550 primers
also CCI 500 will work ok but I always use CCI 550 in the Magnum cases.

[Bill DeShivs]

First- barrel length has nothing to do with inherent accuracy. One of the most accurate guns I have fired was a model 60 S&W.

.357 loads out of a 2" barrel will be only slightly more powerful than .38 special loads, but will have tremendous muzzle blast and recoil.

Buy (or load the equivalent of) factory 148 grain full wadcutter loads. While a "weak w/c isn't much against bear" neither is a 2" .357.
The wadcutter is also a very good defensive load for the 2" gun.

You might look at getting different grips for the gun, also.