July 13, 2016, 05:54 PM | #26 | |
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July 14, 2016, 04:15 AM | #27 |
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reaching/movement
Odds are that an officer has had the driver under observation for at least some period of time prior hitting the lights. A good officer will have the tag logged or broadcast well before the lights come on, and have picked a location of sorts that you can get the car into and both be a tad safer.
Be assured, if you are moving about the interior, reaching, rocking your person about, etc, fall into the category of furtive motion, and you have heightened the officers suspicions in advance, and this can be observed while both vehicles are still in motion and prior the lights coming from some distance to the rear. I would recommend one limit any movement they make once a stop is initiated. Don't do anything seemingly overboard, like sticking your hands out the window, on your head, that sort of thing. NOrmal people don't do that. Again, that heightens suspicion. ..... "This guy's been contacted by LE before, I wonder why?" Hands on the steering wheel is a good practice, as is having your permits available with your license. So too is interior lights at night. |
July 14, 2016, 11:19 AM | #28 |
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I have been involved with police twice with a gun in my car. The first time, I was going through an S curve in town that has several traffic obstacles, rail tracks, pot holes, and it's a two lane wide road with a single lane. A car was behind me, he noticed that I swung around these things, and whatever, I swung out at a comfortable distance, as I had an entire double wide lane.
Well, doing that looks like weaving. He stopped me to check. I told him that the gun was in the glove box, he said "okay, leave it there." Good enough. Oh, I hadn't been drinking, it was just as I said, avoiding dinks in a rough road, and it looked screwy. The second was an accident. I told the one who was taking my information about the pistol in the passenger side floor, to lock it up, he said "no need, I know about it now." I've always known to pull the wallet out and put it on the dash as soon as I stop, and keep the hands on the wheel as they come up.
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July 14, 2016, 06:50 PM | #29 |
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As a 22 year LEO, the last person I'm worried about being shot by is the person who took the time and paid the expense to get a permit. Shooting cops doesn't require a permit, so nobody gets one for that............ You just need a gun and the propensity to be a criminal............. When I see someone is a permit holder, I don't ask them for their gun, about their gun, or anything even RELATED to guns.
The person with no permit, that's the one I'm watching closley.................
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July 14, 2016, 09:55 PM | #30 |
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Treating others like you wish to be treated. That is, life can be stressful enough, so make it easy as possible for those who put themselves on the line every day. The same bad actors around whose presence is reason we carry often have a hatred for LEOs. Takes a few minutes for one stopping you to figure where your attitude lies. Put caring with your compliance and courtesy. My best to each of you.
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July 15, 2016, 06:45 AM | #31 |
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Action beats reaction ...
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July 15, 2016, 07:15 AM | #32 | |
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July 15, 2016, 09:54 PM | #33 | |
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I live in Ohio as well and have had three encounters with law enforcement in the last year. Two collisions with deer and one wildlife officer that we had to call to our farm. The first deer I hit I told the officer I had my CCW, but that I was not carrying that day. His response "why not?" That took me by surprise. 2nd deer I hit, as soon as the trooper pulled up I told him I had my gun on me, his reply "ok, good, I don't need to see your license" The third encounter with the wildlife officer was much the same. We had a very vulgar trespasser that started mouthing off to the officer from about 100 yards away right when he got out of his truck. My first words to him "I'm carrying my handgun". His reply "you got my back?" Lol. All of my experiences with law enforcement I have made it a point to communicate with them right off the bat that A. I have my permit and B whether or not I'm carrying. Their professionalism each time impressed me very much. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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July 16, 2016, 11:20 AM | #34 |
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I do not recommend any disarming/gun handling at all. unless a person is suspect for whatever reason, leave the firearm secured in the holster or glove box or console. the more gun handling there is the more likelihood of a negligent discharge.
a lot of good advice here from others.... some states require immediate ccw disclosure status, some do not. hands in an easier viewed non-threatening position is a good idea even if you're not carrying. interior lights on for night is appreciated greatly. if you are required to disclose your ccw status or there is a reasonable likelihood of it being discovered, a good initial phrase to say is "officer I have a license to carry a pistol, how do you want to proceed"? do nothing unless directed because you nor the officer want any surprises or misunderstandings. there is nothing wrong with narrating your movements and even saying them before a movement to ensure the officer knows what your intentions are. the thing to remember is keeping your empty hands in a clearly seen position and having a non-confrontational attitude goes a long way..... hope that this helps. |
July 18, 2016, 11:30 AM | #35 | |
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July 18, 2016, 11:43 AM | #36 | |
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Again, I'm not really worried about folks who have the permit, as those are TYPICALLY the folks who aren't really interested in shooting at the police. If you're worried about being misunderstood, the best policy is to LISTEN to what the officer requests of you, then COMMUNICATE that you are doing what you were asked. FWIW.
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July 18, 2016, 08:24 PM | #37 |
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Listen to the officer and politely do what he says. If you say the CCW is on your right hip do you really expect him to believe there's no risk if you're reaching on your left side?
People lie to the police all the time. He knows it and expects it of you even though you think he shouldn't.
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July 25, 2016, 11:05 PM | #38 | ||
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This is a curious discussion and lacking more insights from actual LEO's.
I assume everyone I deal with is lying to me. This is practically always true. From the "I stopped at the stop sign" to "just two beers" to "I didn't hit her" to "That's not mine" just about everyone I deal with lies. I celebrate when someone tells me the truth. I assume everyone I deal with is armed. In our rural county this is a pretty valid assumption. Some people tell me they are armed. I tell them don't reach for it. A lot of people keep their CCL next to their DL so I see quite a few of those. Being armed changes absolutely nothing about the encounter for a routine traffic stop. Because I already believe everyone is armed anyway. I assume everyone I deal with will want to kill me at some point. People shoot cops because they don't want to go to jail for a DUI and a plenty of other stupid reasons. You may have just robbed a bank or murdered your wife and I have no idea about it. I take a host of measures to protect myself from whomever I am dealing with. The techniques I use are tried and tested techniques learned and compiled over the decades that have resulted in lower police deaths year after (until this year). They are clearly not foolproof. I can do everything right and still die. I train and keep myself in shape. I have to hope to get lucky. Reaction is by definition slower than action. Rarely, very rarely do I disarm people. The idea here is to prevent a shooting through a misunderstanding or the aggressive offensive actions of the person I am dealing with. The last thing I ever want to do is shoot someone. That does not trump making my wife a widow and kids orphans. If I believe that the person I am dealing with is intoxicated or dealing in intoxicants disarming them is the first thing I will do before proceeding on to other things. Intoxicated people often don't behave rationally and have difficulty communicating. Practically everyone who gets arrested consumes intoxicants at some point. The link between intoxicants and criminal behavior is rock solid near 100%. The last person I disarmed who was not a career criminal was an armed security guard in uniform. Another officer who was transporting a prisoner had followed him for several miles and was convinced he was intoxicated based on his driving. Before conducting sobriety tests on him I took his pistol. I disarm everyone I do tests on. Turns out the guy had worked 20 hours straight and was just really tired and falling asleep. I was glad he wasn't drunk or high. Quote:
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July 26, 2016, 10:15 PM | #39 |
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It has been claimed that some dealers in my area are using non-felon CCW holders to guard their street operations against rivals. Not sure about that, and in someways doesn't make sense to me, but it has been claimed.
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July 26, 2016, 10:32 PM | #40 |
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It isn't unusual for a dealer to engage someone with a drug habit but no criminal record to drive them around and deliver drugs. Some of these people have a CCL. Most of the time someone with a drug problem does not keep a clean record for long, especially if they are in a conspiracy to traffic.
Stand on a street corner? Not so much. |
July 27, 2016, 09:22 AM | #41 |
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The thing you have to remember is that people and I mean anybody can be purely STUPID. Yea that means cops too. Stumbling drooling stupid and I truly mean that.
I once had a biker with his wife in a car who came back NCIC "armed / Dangerous. What a moose 6'7 300 lbs pure muscle with all the tats to go with it. I went up to the car gun behind my back and told him I wanted ID. What does he do but dive right under the seat as I jam a 23 Glock right into his collar bone. So what does he do but look up at me with a smile and say "oh excuse me " and out comes his wallet in his hand from under the seat. Long story short I cuffed him up and frisked his pissed off old lady then ended up letting him go because someone typoed the entry and this guy was just a suspect but no warrants or A/D. Duhhhhhh! Another time it's about half hour pre sunrise at the same small border port. I hear a small sound outside and peek out to see someone had snuck in and parked way up in the corner of the parking lot and was slowly walking towards the door. I wonder who this could be dropping by in the wee hours then I see it. Big chunk of stainless in his right hand, just a glint of it off the parking lot lights that carried to the parking lot. Wow, I catch a brick piece of the door frame and pull my glock and holler at the guy asking him what he wants. " I got something I have to give YOU. Oh I guess you don't know me, I'm deputy -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED-head from downstate. I leave my 45 here when I go to my camp in Canada." This wasn't long after Oklahoma City either. In the end I tell him to put that thing away and I swear he almost looked like I hurt his feelings. Can you imagine? I asked him what in hell he was thinking and it didn't seem to register too well. That from a cop no less. The point of all this is that you just can't ever feel confident that ANYBODY will do the sensible thing and yes that Homer Simpson could be you. People are strange and far more unpredictable than sharks and bears. That's why I always practiced keeping that booger picker up against the inside of the back strap when I pull my gun. It's just cheap insurance against AD's when using something like a Glock or similar. What can Joe Anybody do to avoid these things? Keep those mits up on the steering wheel or vicinity. Don't do anything fast like dive under a seat or into a glove box. Just keep still with those hands where the cop can see them and do what he says , also stay in the car unless and until they tell you to get out and do everything at a regular pace . Then stand there till they tell you otherwise preferably with hands in full sight. As a cop, well just expect the unexpected and try to take advantage of whatever cover is available. Use those take down lights most every dept has now days. That blinding light keeps them from seeing you well. Take a second to read the people. What are they doing, what aren't they doing, where are they looking. You can learn a lot in just a few seconds if you are looking. Stay tight to the car if there is only one in there. He can't snap off a shot without pointing it right past his own face if he gets froggy which slows him down a lot. I always liked to rest my hands on my gun and belt like some stereotypical cowboy. It's comfortable and you are already half way there if you need to pull it. Beyond that be careful and ready for anything. |
August 4, 2016, 01:27 PM | #42 |
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I've been pulled over a lot in my lifetime. I personally think it's bad advice to try to dig out license and registration before the officer gets to your window unless it is very, very handy (and if it is, then what is the rush?). If he/she was in a real hurry, I wouldn't have been pulled over in the first place. It's obvious I'm in a hurry -- that's probably why I got pulled over. No -- It's not worth any remote chance that the officer might be suspicious of what I'm reaching for. What if I look like the suspect in the robbery, or someone got mad at me and reported by car as stolen? Not worth it!
I roll down the window, turn off the car, put my hands on the wheel, and don't speak until spoken to. If I'm carrying, I tell them about it. If it's night, the dome light is on. I feel like the the officer notices my reasonable effort to do nothing unless instructed, and we both know we are trying be safe without saying a word about it. In Virginia, we are supposed to disclose whether or not we have a permit and whether or not we are carrying. If I lived somewhere else, I would do the same, because I would want to know if I was in the officer's shoes. |
August 6, 2016, 01:30 PM | #43 |
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I like the idea that someone mentioned about just not riding with your wallet in your pocket. Go ahead and set it on the dash, in the cup holder, between your legs, etc.
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August 6, 2016, 02:25 PM | #44 |
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Been stopped often. I just sit quietly with hands on the open and when he approaches, I tell them I have a CCW and I'm armed, and just followed any directions he gave. Never had an issue.
Just a couple of weeks ago, we had a small theft and I offered to take the officer to where someone had told me the potential suspect could be. The officer watched me put on my holster, drop my pistol in it and I asked "My vehicle, or yours?". He said his and started to empty the seat, and said I could ride in the back to save him the trouble. He opened the door and said hop in and off we went. A few months back, out beat cop dropped into a neighborhood get together and somehow the discussion got to lights on porches. I raised my hand and told him we had blue lights on the porch. He said that was nice as everybody smiled. I said it wasn't just symbolic though. I told him he could come to us for anything from water, to observation help, or a full-fledged firefight if he needed us. You know, everybody looked down and his eyes kinda changed and I thought he was going to cry for a moment there. He now stops by at random intervals knowing we have his back. Of course, this is Va. and this is normal here. My son is state trooper and he gets real antsy if a carrier doesn't mention he's armed. Tell him you're armed and he feels safer knowing more about you then.
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August 6, 2016, 02:33 PM | #45 |
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I've been pulled over maybe 3 times in 20 years.
I roll down the windows, have my wallet in my hands. Both hands on the steering wheel. As he gets to my window I say: "Hello (officer, deputy, trooper) I'm a police Officer, I've got my gun on me, what would you like me to do?.." Period. Balls in his court, he's in charge. Funniest ever. Got stopped going home at 3:00. Uniform pants and T shirt. Shed everything else. Got stopped. Did my routine, he says, I pulled you over because you don't have any tail lights. Me: seriously? Nothing? Nope. Buddy, can I get out and see what's up? Sure. I get the the back, yep. Nothing. I know I had tail lights a couple days ago. It just passed inspection. -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED-? Can I open the trunk and check the bulbs? Sure Pause..."say, we good about that whole 'I'm PO-lice' thing?" Him: "sure" "Cool. Because as soon as I open that trunk, the first things you see will be a decked out AR and an Ithaca Stakeout 12 ga. We still good?" Whacked the back of both light housings, both lights came on. Damned German car electronics. |
August 15, 2016, 07:57 AM | #46 |
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When driving I put my wallet in a cup holder in my truck. That way if I'm stopped, the officer does not see any odd movement from me when I'm going for my wallet. In NC more times than not, they come up on the passenger side so I'm ready to let that window down if they do so. Interior lights always come on to ease there mind when approaching me. NC is a shall notify state, so I let them know immediately that I have a CC permit and whether or not I'm carrying. I've only been stopped a few times in my life (53yrs old) but it's the least i can do to help the officer feel safe while they conduct the stop. Keep in mind that even though you are an upstanding citizen, they don't know that.
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August 15, 2016, 08:32 AM | #47 | |
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In my business I interact with Canadians, Brits and Latin Americans a good bit. Our interactions are similar to 3rd world Latin American countries, vs. Canada (well Canadians are ruthlessly polite regardless) or even Britain. And Frankly I see it becoming more and more like how the police interacted when I went to Southern California, and police interactions there were not good. I regularly shoot with police, and have not had unprofessional dealings with them, even in LA. But I see it becoming more tense, and the interactions more aggressive. |
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August 15, 2016, 10:02 AM | #48 | |
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August 15, 2016, 10:56 AM | #49 |
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That is a fair point. I was thinking more about the likelihood of violence. I've not had a Toronto cop point a gun at me. That was not uncommon in LA (long story but frequently stopped because I stood out as not supposed to be in the area- white guy living in one of the more interesting areas, with the natural suspicion that I was driving in the area to buy drugs instead of driving to school).
(Interestingly, I never felt unsafe in those situations as they had the procedure down step by step and were very professional about it. I'd feel safer with them than being pulled over by a Louisiana sheriff for example) |
August 15, 2016, 08:16 PM | #50 |
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The way I look at it, there are more police stops at night on YouTube that go wrong than you can count. I personally would be on high alert pulling over a vehicle on a dark highway or country road. I'm not a LEO but i share their concern. The few things I can safely do to put the officer at ease will set the tone for the remainder of the stop. Again, these officers have know idea whether I'm a 53yr old family man that works to much or a 53yr old that just robbed a convenient store and will do anything to end the confrontation. I have a huge respect for these guys and gals. They have a tough job with relatively low starting pay and very little respect that gets worse by the day. They don't have the luxury to know how a traffic stop is going to go before hand. What they do know is that the next traffic stop COULD be there last if their not paying attention.
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