CAS shotguns....

Dave McC · January 16, 2001, 09:06 AM

I look kinda silly in a Stetson, and the idea of striding purposefully through Tombstone's dusty streets with Doc, Morgan and Virgil looking for the Clantons lost its allure for me about the time I started shaving, but.....

The grapevine says that lots of folks enjoy dressing up as in days of yore and shooting oldtime guns. Sounds like fun to me, and a good place to take the kids, just like the UnCivil War re-enactments that pop up from time to time.

Then, in a gun store I run across some Russkie SXS that are set up just for CAS. If a gun maker dedicates an assembly line just to making these, there must be quite a demand. And a little inquiry shows there are CAS meets even here in Md, hardly a bastion of cowboys,mountain men,riverboat gamblers, etc.

As I understand it,shotguns for these events are usually SXS, tho Model 97 Winchesters, the old 93 Marlin pump, and the rare and delicate Colt and Spencer lever action shotguns are all that is allowed.

So, can anyone tell me what the quals are for shotguns, and the games? Also, does one have to do all the events? The person I talked to the other day indicated I needed 2 SA revolvers, a Quigley rifle, a repeating rifle of archaic design and obsolete cartridge,a shotgun of either 10 or 12 ga fitting the above parameters, and a derringer. While there's a reasonable amount of guns here at Casa McC, none of mine fit the above laundry list.

I can see doing the shotgun stuff and maybe a freestyle buffalo gun shoot,but some of the other stuff really doesn't ring my chimes.

Thanks in advance and...

YIPPIE YI YO KI YEY....

fal308 · January 16, 2001, 11:22 AM

The basic firearms needed to run a full CAS match are two single action revolvers, a pistol-caliber rifle (or carbine), and a shotgun. The other firearms are for possible sidematches.
Concentrating on the shotgun, the only shotguns that are generally legal in CAS competitions are those that were available in 1898 or before; i.e. double-barrelled hammer, single-barrel hammer, lever-action (1887 Winchester) and hammer pumps (1897 Winchester and 1893 Marlin being th most popular). Now that doesn't mean that the actual firearm in question has to have been made before that date, only that the style was made before that date (ala 1901 Winchester, is basically a variation of the 1887). On a more general note, if it has visible hammers, more than likely it's legal. This includes the faux hammers on some modern SxS. I know that hammerless guns were built then but generally they aren't legal.
As to shooting the match. Basically if you want to shoot one stage, protoccol and courtesy would dictate that you shoot all the stages (usually four or five here). Most stages require the use of more than one type of firearm. Some of our stages require the use of all four basic firearms in one stage

For local matches most clubs aren't real picky about the dressing up (or down). Just wear jeans and a western shirt is usually enough. Just don't show up in sneakers and a ballcap. We've got farmers showing up in their overralls regularly. You can be as fancy or plain as you want.
Go watch a match and see if it tickles your fancy. You never know, you may even want to try it. If you do want to try and don't have all the guns, don't worry. Most CAS shooters are glad to lend you whatever you need. Just let the group leader (posse leader) know of your needs and I'm sure you'll be fixed up in no time.

January 16, 2001, 11:44 AM

Hammerless side-by-sides are legal, actually. The IGA/Stoeger coach gun is a perennial favorite at SASS matches. Only pumps are required to have an external hammer. 20 ga is also legal.

The rifle doesn't have to be in an obsolete cartridge. Any pistol cartridge will do. Most folks have the rifle and both revolvers chambered for the same cartridge - saves having to think. .38/357, 44 Spec/Mag and 45 Colt make up 99% of shooters. Occasionally you'll see a purist with a .44-40.

PJR · January 16, 2001, 05:42 PM

It's my understanding that sxs shotguns can't have single triggers or ejectors only extractors and double triggers. The pump and lever guns are limited to two rounds so as not to have a major advantage over the sxs. Hammerless guns are permitted at the matches I've seen.

Lately at some local gunshows I've seen some really desirable shotguns cutdown for cowboy shooting including a L.C. Smith, Lefever and a couple of Foxes. That's shame and the value of these old guns is lost forever once someone takes a hacksaw to the tubes.

I've always thought a fun approach might be to use period English guns -- say an old bulldog type revolver, an English sxs and maybe an old double rifle in one of the black powder express cartridges.

Ned Roundtree · January 17, 2001, 09:26 AM

No restrictions on single or double triggers. Straight from the rule book:
"Any side by side shotgun typical of the era WITHOUT AUTOMATIC EJECTORS, with or without external hammers, with single or double triggers. Any lever action or pump shotgun with an exposed hammer (eg. Winchester Model 1887 or 1897). Military configurations are not allowed."

"..No larger bore than 10 gauge and
no smaller than 20 gauge.."

Many folks just disconnect auto ejectors. Hope this helps.

Dave McC · January 17, 2001, 09:40 AM

Thanks, guys. And for those lurking, PLEASE do not hacksaw grandpop's duck gun for this.....

Walther22lr · February 10, 2001, 11:23 PM

Go to http://www.sassnet.com/ this will help you alot. I think all your questions will be answered there. Good luck and good shooting!

Dave McC · February 11, 2001, 05:19 PM

Walther, thanks, already been there...

January 16, 2001, 09:06 AM	#1
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	I look kinda silly in a Stetson, and the idea of striding purposefully through Tombstone's dusty streets with Doc, Morgan and Virgil looking for the Clantons lost its allure for me about the time I started shaving, but..... The grapevine says that lots of folks enjoy dressing up as in days of yore and shooting oldtime guns. Sounds like fun to me, and a good place to take the kids, just like the UnCivil War re-enactments that pop up from time to time. Then, in a gun store I run across some Russkie SXS that are set up just for CAS. If a gun maker dedicates an assembly line just to making these, there must be quite a demand. And a little inquiry shows there are CAS meets even here in Md, hardly a bastion of cowboys,mountain men,riverboat gamblers, etc. As I understand it,shotguns for these events are usually SXS, tho Model 97 Winchesters, the old 93 Marlin pump, and the rare and delicate Colt and Spencer lever action shotguns are all that is allowed. So, can anyone tell me what the quals are for shotguns, and the games? Also, does one have to do all the events? The person I talked to the other day indicated I needed 2 SA revolvers, a Quigley rifle, a repeating rifle of archaic design and obsolete cartridge,a shotgun of either 10 or 12 ga fitting the above parameters, and a derringer. While there's a reasonable amount of guns here at Casa McC, none of mine fit the above laundry list. I can see doing the shotgun stuff and maybe a freestyle buffalo gun shoot,but some of the other stuff really doesn't ring my chimes. Thanks in advance and... YIPPIE YI YO KI YEY....

January 16, 2001, 11:22 AM	#2
fal308 Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 12, 1998 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,992	The basic firearms needed to run a full CAS match are two single action revolvers, a pistol-caliber rifle (or carbine), and a shotgun. The other firearms are for possible sidematches. Concentrating on the shotgun, the only shotguns that are generally legal in CAS competitions are those that were available in 1898 or before; i.e. double-barrelled hammer, single-barrel hammer, lever-action (1887 Winchester) and hammer pumps (1897 Winchester and 1893 Marlin being th most popular). Now that doesn't mean that the actual firearm in question has to have been made before that date, only that the style was made before that date (ala 1901 Winchester, is basically a variation of the 1887). On a more general note, if it has visible hammers, more than likely it's legal. This includes the faux hammers on some modern SxS. I know that hammerless guns were built then but generally they aren't legal. As to shooting the match. Basically if you want to shoot one stage, protoccol and courtesy would dictate that you shoot all the stages (usually four or five here). Most stages require the use of more than one type of firearm. Some of our stages require the use of all four basic firearms in one stage For local matches most clubs aren't real picky about the dressing up (or down). Just wear jeans and a western shirt is usually enough. Just don't show up in sneakers and a ballcap. We've got farmers showing up in their overralls regularly. You can be as fancy or plain as you want. Go watch a match and see if it tickles your fancy. You never know, you may even want to try it. If you do want to try and don't have all the guns, don't worry. Most CAS shooters are glad to lend you whatever you need. Just let the group leader (posse leader) know of your needs and I'm sure you'll be fixed up in no time.

January 16, 2001, 11:44 AM	#3
Jeff, CA Guest Posts: n/a	Hammerless side-by-sides are legal, actually. The IGA/Stoeger coach gun is a perennial favorite at SASS matches. Only pumps are required to have an external hammer. 20 ga is also legal. The rifle doesn't have to be in an obsolete cartridge. Any pistol cartridge will do. Most folks have the rifle and both revolvers chambered for the same cartridge - saves having to think. .38/357, 44 Spec/Mag and 45 Colt make up 99% of shooters. Occasionally you'll see a purist with a .44-40.

January 16, 2001, 05:42 PM	#4
PJR Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2000 Posts: 1,127	It's my understanding that sxs shotguns can't have single triggers or ejectors only extractors and double triggers. The pump and lever guns are limited to two rounds so as not to have a major advantage over the sxs. Hammerless guns are permitted at the matches I've seen. Lately at some local gunshows I've seen some really desirable shotguns cutdown for cowboy shooting including a L.C. Smith, Lefever and a couple of Foxes. That's shame and the value of these old guns is lost forever once someone takes a hacksaw to the tubes. I've always thought a fun approach might be to use period English guns -- say an old bulldog type revolver, an English sxs and maybe an old double rifle in one of the black powder express cartridges.

January 17, 2001, 09:26 AM	#5
Ned Roundtree Senior Member Join Date: December 8, 1999 Location: Lexington, KY,USA Posts: 738	No restrictions on single or double triggers. Straight from the rule book: "Any side by side shotgun typical of the era WITHOUT AUTOMATIC EJECTORS, with or without external hammers, with single or double triggers. Any lever action or pump shotgun with an exposed hammer (eg. Winchester Model 1887 or 1897). Military configurations are not allowed." "..No larger bore than 10 gauge and no smaller than 20 gauge.." Many folks just disconnect auto ejectors. Hope this helps.

January 17, 2001, 09:40 AM	#6
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Thanks, guys. And for those lurking, PLEASE do not hacksaw grandpop's duck gun for this.....

February 10, 2001, 11:23 PM	#7
Walther22lr Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2000 Location: Arizona Territory Posts: 296	Go to http://www.sassnet.com/ this will help you alot. I think all your questions will be answered there. Good luck and good shooting!

February 11, 2001, 05:19 PM	#8
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Walther, thanks, already been there...